why does government lie and commit fraud

Brick Top

New Member
they say we all came from africa 2millions years ago but cant explain where white man came from .. well white people were cursed for replacing the sun god ra with there own images of alexander the greek ..
If you believe that I happen to own a bridge that connects two burroughs of New York City, Manhattan and Brooklyn, and I am growing tired of it and I will make you a really good price on it if you are interested.

Just let me know.
 

Brick Top

New Member
it s obvious if poppullation is greater there has to be more danger at whatever ... from pollution to being robbed on the streats ,
So a higher level of pollution with a smaller population is not as much of a risk to those alive at the time as a lesser amount of pollution is to a larger population?
 

gobbly

Well-Known Member
see you believe the lies as well ... it wasnt a gamble i knew for a fact mar j helps not hurt ... and my child was at no risk ... in fact he has benifited greatly as he is more aware then my other 4 children wish i would have did the same but ultimately it was the mothers choice to smoke herb or not ... see the govt got 95% of the world believing marj is a drug ,.....first of all! MaryJj is not a socially corrosive drug. It is not even a drug.
drugs are altered by man. So they termed it "psycoactive change in the brain" Under this term they still can not say it is a drug. So they deemed it a controlled substance.
well! In church, if you catch the "holyghost" This is a form of psycoactive change in the brain.
In many religions, they require psycoactive states to be altered in order to have a greater expirience, understanding, and relationship with god.
It appears the Govt. has made a set of laws that would suggest they do not want us to have this greater expirience with god?
I think you need to re-evaluate your scientific process. Out of millions of babies born every year, your few children come no where near a statistically significant sample, so making any sort of statement of fact based on your personal experience is pretty far fetched. You could have 1000 kids, and still not really be statistically significant...

I know someone with 4 kids, smoked pot through all 4, 3 are quite healthy, one had severe visual impairment. I also know several mothers who smoked cigarettes, or drank fairly heavily and seem to have quite healthy kids. Does that refute the overwhelming evidence that both of those activities significantly increase your risk of having complications? No. Children are born under ideal circumstances with cerebral palsy, or a host of other ailments; some we understand, some we don't. There are simply too many variables, and to sort them out takes actual clinical trials where these variables are all considered and methods for isolating them against a control are taken.

I think you also have a personal definition of drugs, which might work great for you, but to expect others to understand your definition and how it differs from the english translation is kinda unrealistic. Is aspirin a drug? Do a search and you'll find that the majority of medicinal substances (usually called drugs), come from nature, in fact, after the peak in the 80's and 90's, synthetic compounds have been decreasing in medical use. At the same time, testing on organic systems (like ant colonies and corals), and how they manage disease, has become a huge area of research, and is driving the majority of our pharmaceutical industry today.
I'm really not sure where you are going with the religion aspect, and to be honest, I always get very nervous when people use religion to justify a point of view that isn't really religious. I am not aware of any medical conditions termed the 'holyghost', nor is there testing to back up your statement about it triggering psycoactive changes in the brain. The closest thing you will find are studies on the brainwaves of people while they do things like meditate or read (and if I recall correctly they also measured people while praying, sleeping, and doing other everyday activities), though none of these activities were associated with the administration of any type of substance (ie: a drug), nor were they considered any disease state, or medical condition.
Also to imply that a change in brainwaves, or brain chemistry equates to a psychoactive change in the brain such as is achieved through the use of substances is ridiculous. You then would also need to include sleeping, thinking, sensing, and all the other things which are processed and recorded in our brains, and at that point you might as well say that anything alive is undergoing psychoactive changes in their brains, and as such must be experiencing the same thing I am while I am tripping balls on LSD!
Kinda a side note, but THC actually has specialized receptors in the brain, receptors which we have been unable to find other natural uses for. It is not created naturally by our bodies, it is a foreign agent we must consume to activate these receptors. This is remarkably different than the chemicals your body naturally creates when in situations such as prayer, or meditation (or for some I'm sure fishing, or whatever you do that relaxes and centers you).

I have said before that issues like these simply have not undergone the testing required to make general statements about it. Anything you hear, from either side of the fence, is speculation based on someones relatively limited experience. That said, the one test I'm aware of that looked at the effects of smoking marijuana on unborn children was unable to find any negative health effects. This was a study conducted in europe (I want to say it was in the UK, but don't quote me on that). It was a great test, but didn't receive much attention in general, and was only the first in a series of trials which would be needed to say more definitively what issues, if any, are associated with exposure in early development.

Edit: It also really worries me how quick you are to state your limited anecdotal experience as fact. It seemed really logical that the world was flat, after all, that jived with everyones (in hindsight, quite limited) experience. However, we all know now that the world isn't flat... And don't bother with the "nothing can be proven as fact argument". That only works with people won't don't have a background in or understand science :)
 

Brick Top

New Member
What is "repent sir" supposed to mean in regards to me? Have I stated my own personal beliefs or have I only instead merely pointed out certain facts about the total absence of facts proving the existence or nonexistence of any God or Gods? Why should I repent? Because I was honest and did not lie claiming that proof of God's existence does exist?

What ever happened to thou shalt not lie?
 

Brick Top

New Member
I think you need to re-evaluate your scientific process. Out of millions of babies born every year, your few children come no where near a statistically significant sample, so making any sort of statement of fact based on your personal experience is pretty far fetched. You could have 1000 kids, and still not really be statistically significant...
Research studies performed that resulted in very positive findings in regards to cannabis use still showed a degeneration of nerve connections between brain cells in the hippocampus, where THC is known to be active. Do you believe there is no possibility that something that causes such degeneration would not or could not also effect the developing cells of a fetus? Are we to believe that a fetus is more resistant to such degradation than adults are?
 

fourtwentychat

Well-Known Member
Gobbly was simply saying that the OP's "scientific process" is not scientific at all. At this point, I'm really hoping that the OP is actually just a troll...otherwise I'm scared.
 

kamonra

Member
What is "repent sir" supposed to mean in regards to me? Have I stated my own personal beliefs or have I only instead merely pointed out certain facts about the total absence of facts proving the existence or nonexistence of any God or Gods? Why should I repent? Because I was honest and did not lie claiming that proof of God's existence does exist?

What ever happened to thou shalt not lie?
i told you fact is undefinable.... in galeio would have stated flying was a fact .. he would be told he was a lier ... but flying is a fact but just hadnt been discovered yet .... if in 17th century someone would have said ..i could record my words on light and send them across the world . they would have been burned at the stake ... but that was a fact just wasnt discovered yet .... god and the supreme being are facts in the same sense ...i still havnt heard the comment on why life creates life therefore we must be from the source life ...
 

gobbly

Well-Known Member
Research studies performed that resulted in very positive findings in regards to cannabis use still showed a degeneration of nerve connections between brain cells in the hippocampus, where THC is known to be active. Do you believe there is no possibility that something that causes such degeneration would not or could not also effect the developing cells of a fetus? Are we to believe that a fetus is more resistant to such degradation than adults are?
Yeah, I apologize if what I said wasn't as clear as I meant it to be (I suffer from too much thought in too little time sometimes, and it can come out in my writing if I don't severely edit, hehe).

I by no means claim to know all scientific research on the subject, though I do make a concerted attempt to find all I can on the subject in general. What I am basically saying is that out of the large number of children born each yet, it takes a lot more than one or two (or even 100 or 1000) samples to become statistically significant. It purely comes down to a question of math, and limiting your margin of error. I make no claim either way, my personal view is that on nearly every front (including developmental health issues), the question of marijuana simply requires a lot more testing before I would feel comfortable with statements of fact.

It's a fine line. In science something is fact if it has been tested in significantly statistical quantities and found to always be the case, until one thing comes along to disprove it. I'll go back to the idea of a flat earth. At one time this was fact, testing at the time certainly confirmed the hypothesis (looked flat, things didn't roll off a flat surface, etc), then one day copernicus noticed that this didn't quite jive with what he was seeing from observation. He derived tests which were significant (where his observations themselves weren't), and what the world had known as fact, suddenly changed. It took the world quite a while to accept the reality, but that doesn't change the fact.
What the OP has is nothing like this. He has a collection of observations, that disagree with what the govt has told us all was fact, his response is to state his observations as fact. Now I'm not one to defend the govt, mine states observation/opinion as fact all the time, it pisses me off (I am currently working to expatriate because of issues like this). However, boil it all down, and the OP is doing the same thing. If I were you I'd be out there demanding for more testing, and research toward answering all these issues you are bringing up. Better yet, get some schooling under your belt, and go into research, start helping to answer these questions :)
 

LadyKimi

Well-Known Member
You know, I know quite a few people that smoke weed during pregnancy b/c they had horrible morning sickness and couldn't ever eat, it helped their appetite and their babies are perfectly fine too;
In fact, they prescribe medical marijuana to pregnant women in some states to help with morning sickness.
The only health risks weed has when your pregnant is that it can make your child more prone to ear infections.
It really doesn't fuck with the baby.
But anything the mother takes in the baby does as well.
Smoking does get to your baby when you are pregnant, once weed enters your bloodstream, it passes through the umbilical chord onto the baby; that's how it works with other drugs even cigarettes too.
But truth be known, if it was so bad for babies, they wouldn't prescribe it to the mother.
As a mother I can not imagine taking the chance. Period. Once upon a time cigarettes were not considered dangerous to a fetus and helped with morning sickness.

As far as the "They would not prescribe it" R U Kidding?? How many lawsuits are out now that start with "If U took (insert drug name here) while pregnant and your child is suffering from (insert illness or disease here) Call 1-800 blah blah blah??????????????????????

As for the OP, when trying to present a reasonable and somewhat controversial topic it is always best to use spell check, you will look slightly less like one of the "irresponsible stoners" the Feds talk about. Dude U basically turned your kid into a lab rat because your wife didn't want to stop getting high.
 

Brick Top

New Member
i told you fact is undefinable.... in galeio would have stated flying was a fact .. he would be told he was a lier ... but flying is a fact but just hadnt been discovered yet .... if in 17th century someone would have said ..i could record my words on light and send them across the world . they would have been burned at the stake ... but that was a fact just wasnt discovered yet .... god and the supreme being are facts in the same sense ...i still havnt heard the comment on why life creates life therefore we must be from the source life ...

Fact is undefinable?

a concept whose truth can be proved; "scientific hypotheses are not facts"
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Galileo would have been presenting a correct hypothesis, a correct belief, but not a fact since flight by man/manned aircraft had not been proven at the time.
 

kamonra

Member
fuck spell check i have no respect for the english language it is fear mechanism .. for one example of many ... curse words.. who decided curse words are bad .. theres is no manual or no one knows where and who decided these are bad words... so now you get upset with me for saying a word ...its ridiculous ...the intent and feelings is more important that f u or ass, or whatever... every one should be able to say what they want you should not get angry at what someone says .. its their mouth ..
 

gobbly

Well-Known Member
i told you fact is undefinable.... in galeio would have stated flying was a fact .. he would be told he was a lier ... but flying is a fact but just hadnt been discovered yet .... if in 17th century someone would have said ..i could record my words on light and send them across the world . they would have been burned at the stake ... but that was a fact just wasnt discovered yet .... god and the supreme being are facts in the same sense ...i still havnt heard the comment on why life creates life therefore we must be from the source life ...
you seriously need to educate yourself on a subject before you go talking like the guru... Fact is very definable, enter any science program at any college/university in the world. One of the first things you learn is that facts are things which have been shown to be true by experiments following the scientific process, which has not been show to be inconsistent through any experiments. Nothing about fact says it can't change... I don't know why people get so hung up on the idea that we learn something new... I understand a lot more how people get hung up on whether one test or another constitutes a proper experiment which can refute something previously known to be fact. On that all I can really say is that I am by no means an expert on this subject (I'm not in boilogy, I'm in engineering based science), but as someone who understands the processes I do not believe enough has been done to answer these questions. I hope to see that change, because this plant has been the most important thing in my life for a long time now, and I hate to sound like I'm in opposition. I simply think the community needs to be calling for more real answers, not continuing to propagate theories.

edit: going to butt out now and just watch others thoughts :) I'm starting to argue now, and that's not good, hehe.
 

LadyKimi

Well-Known Member
I am seriously considering cancelling my doctors appt so I do not get 20 pages behind on this thread. I fear that statements like the Op makes is the reason legalization will never be fully passed. They think we are all nut jobs.

Kimi
 

Killer Bud

Well-Known Member
The government lies, and commits fraud because they scared of the truth of what the people would say. They are too busy thinkin what we would say to actually stop and listen to us. They think they have our best interests are heart when in reality they dont they have their interests in their pockets, and what will make their companies more money. They dont want to face the truth that they have lied for many many years telling us something is so bad (marijuana) and will hurt us when in truth its THE safest drug known to man. Cant OD on marijuana, but you can OD on vitamins, and tylenol. Government will never tell the truth, What our country was founded on is dead and gone like our founding fathers as sad it is for me to say this. They are probably turning in their graves, what did there hard work turn out to be NOTHING but corruption. Every our represenatives that are paid to be here to listen to us do nothing but listen to whoever the highest bidder is. Why weed still illegal? because companies cant copyright it, or patent it so they lobby to keep it illegal so they can make drugs that do nothing but kill us quick, and our government sits by watching taking kick backs. It truly a sad world we are living in. All we have left is a few rights that are being taken away 1 n all we are being told is it is for the greater good "To fight terrorists, and criminals".
 

fourtwentychat

Well-Known Member
As a mother I can not imagine taking the chance. Period.
Wish I could move this post up to some earlier point in the thread (before everything started getting CrAzY). LadyKimi expresses my thoughts exactly in this one sentence. It is simply irresponsible to gamble with your child's health based on your feelings of "knowing for a fact it's safe."

I don't think anyone made the claim that it is factually detrimental to the child's health. That is not the point; the point is that nobody knows...yet.

I almost wish that this whole thread would just be deleted, so that future visitors won't end up happening across this thread and passing judgments about this community.
 

Brick Top

New Member
its THE safest drug known to man.

Therein lies part of the problem of achieving legalization. Even we call cannabis a drug and even if it is the safest drug it will always be seen as being a drug by the straight community. (Straight as in not tokers and not about sexuality.) Saying it is the safest drug so we should be able to enjoy it is to the straight community like saying being bitten by the least venomous snake is cool and the gang. It is still a venomous snake and still not something anyone should wish to be bitten by and since the straight community believes what Mr. Mackey says, muuuummm drugs are bad, m'kay, is true as long as cannabis is seen as being a drug making it legal will be difficult for politicians even if they support it. Regardless of degree of safety it is still a drug to the straight community.

We help to perpetuate the negative connotation when we call cannabis drugs or dope etc. rather than medication or a source of medication or just a plant or natural substance etc. When you then add how poorly many tokers come off when they attempt to express themselves and what they use as and like to believe is clear straightforward logic and reasoning many come off looking like Rainman to the straight community and that further reinforces their belief that drugs are bad, m'kay.

Many tokers end up with a severe case of MP foot when they attempt to join the battle for legalized marijuana. They really should consider remaining in the rear with the gear and allow others fight and win the war.
 

whiteflour

Well-Known Member
Therein lies part of the problem of achieving legalization. Even we call cannabis a drug and even if it is the safest drug it will always be seen as being a drug by the straight community. (Straight as in not tokers and not about sexuality.) Saying it is the safest drug so we should be able to enjoy it is to the straight community like saying being bitten by the least venomous snake is cool and the gang. It is still a venomous snake and still not something anyone should wish to be bitten by and since the straight community believes what Mr. Mackey says, muuuummm drugs are bad, m'kay, is true as long as cannabis is seen as being a drug making it legal will be difficult for politicians even if they support it. Regardless of degree of safety it is still a drug to the straight community.

We help to perpetuate the negative connotation when we call cannabis drugs or dope etc. rather than medication or a source of medication or just a plant or natural substance etc. When you then add how poorly many tokers come off when they attempt to express themselves and what they use as and like to believe is clear straightforward logic and reasoning many come off looking like Rainman to the straight community and that further reinforces their belief that drugs are bad, m'kay.

Many tokers end up with a severe case of MP foot when they attempt to join the battle for legalized marijuana. They really should consider remaining in the rear with the gear and allow others fight and win the war.
I couldn't agree more. We need "corporations" that have resources to fight this NATIONALLY. A few hollywood celebrities with fat pocketbooks aren't going to cut it. We need politicians, farmers, and the medical industry behind it. Only then will we have the power to outweigh the straight populous.

Bribes and Economics pass laws not peoples wishes.
 

kronicsmurf

Well-Known Member
I hope your faith is rewarded in the end by having a healthy happy child grow up to be a healthy happy adult but honestly religion or faith is never a reason to gamble with your childs life even if theres a 1% chance that pot could cause health problems.
 
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