When should i move seedlings into the system?

looking pretty good! yea if they're just getting the rot now, then i think you lucked out pretty good with the timing. curious to see how the tea works out for ya.

i've gotta figure out the best way to use this great white stuff with the tea, so far it seems to be really good but damn is it expensive, would be great to cut the cost.

how long did it take for your roots to reach the waters? my seeds developed their first true leaves, but the roots still havent popped from the bottom of the rockwool cube..
ps- i germinated them in a humidity dome, and put the dome on my internet modem for warmth and build up all that moisture (this is my fool proof way of getting any seeds to pop surface, dont forget to presoak them seeds! 24hrs for me, they shud sink after 3 hours, so give them a poke)
my seeds dont have a problem germinating and popped surface, but i'm having trouble getting them to root in general and normally takes like 2 weeks before i see any real development.
i normally grow in promix, and the plant itself and roots take off in said 2 weeks on their own.
i'm wondering what im doing wrong with DWC. getting them to touch the water is the hardest part for me, after they touch the nutrient solution, they take off like the champions they are.
any tips and advice??

Bank Breaker said:

how long did it take for your roots to reach the waters? my seeds developed their first true leaves, but the roots still havent popped from the bottom of the rockwool cube..
ps- i germinated them in a humidity dome, and put the dome on my internet modem for warmth and build up all that moisture (this is my fool proof way of getting any seeds to pop surface, dont forget to presoak them seeds! 24hrs for me, they shud sink after 3 hours, so give them a poke)
my seeds dont have a problem germinating and popped surface, but i'm having trouble getting them to root in general and normally takes like 2 weeks before i see any real development.
i normally grow in promix, and the plant itself and roots take off in said 2 weeks on their own.
i'm wondering what im doing wrong with DWC. getting them to touch the water is the hardest part for me, after they touch the nutrient solution, they take off like the champions they are.
any tips and advice??

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Well I would say between a week to 2 weeks before they actually touch the water. I had 6.5 gallon buckets and waited too long which was like 2 weeks....they started burning frm lack of water so I dropped em in the buckets and they bounced back and flourished. if u want just raise the water levels so they touch the roots minimally at the very least. without that they won't thrive the same. or just pray he roots continously but that's time consuming so......

trapmarley420 said:

Well I would say between a week to 2 weeks before they actually touch the water. I had 6.5 gallon buckets and waited too long which was like 2 weeks....they started burning frm lack of water so I dropped em in the buckets and they bounced back and flourished. if u want just raise the water levels so they touch the roots minimally at the very least. without that they won't thrive the same. or just pray he roots continously but that's time consuming so......

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theres nothing special you can do to actually help the roots develop quicker through the hydroton??
i always assumed guys prepped the heck outta their rockwool cubes and hydroton in bennies water, or some kind of root nutrient solution to help the rockwool and hydroton give the seedlings/cutting a jump start. i've literally seen guys with roots going into and through the hydroton pebbles. mine grow AROUND the hydroton gaps i noticed, and the roots dont explode into growth until they hit the waters l;ike i said.
im trying to get my roots to really be developed outta the rockwool cubes, and through the hydroton pebbles.
i always thought a drip system was what i was missing.
mind you, all my hydroton has been cleaned and thoroughly washed.
(boiled them 3 times before i got clean water running through them, is this normal? because ive read cases where one wash and rinse is enough, heck some guys dont even bother with the boiling water.

Bank Breaker said:

how long did it take for your roots to reach the waters? my seeds developed their first true leaves, but the roots still havent popped from the bottom of the rockwool cube..
ps- i germinated them in a humidity dome, and put the dome on my internet modem for warmth and build up all that moisture (this is my fool proof way of getting any seeds to pop surface, dont forget to presoak them seeds! 24hrs for me, they shud sink after 3 hours, so give them a poke)
my seeds dont have a problem germinating and popped surface, but i'm having trouble getting them to root in general and normally takes like 2 weeks before i see any real development.
i normally grow in promix, and the plant itself and roots take off in said 2 weeks on their own.
i'm wondering what im doing wrong with DWC. getting them to touch the water is the hardest part for me, after they touch the nutrient solution, they take off like the champions they are.
any tips and advice??

Click to expand...

Took me about 3 weeks before they touched water (8" gap tho!)- I put em in the system pretty much right after that picture was taken. So, top drip in DWC is supposed to really help the plants get along until the roots touch down. Plus this round I started inoculating pretty early with bennies and mychs. Right after i saw roots from the germinated seeds I started applying mychs.

I also really redid my water works in the DWC this time- I kept the top drippers on full blast, but put the pump on a timer (15m every 4-5 hours). I also added some extra drip lines that just waterfall down from the top to help create mist, circulate, and DO. I never saw any signs of over or uderwatering, and the roots took off really quick once they poked out of the pots. The amount of mist I have in the 8" gap i guess was enough to basically be aeroponics enough.

I did regular inoculations, maybe once a weak, of the root crown and net cup- basically weak bennie tea, or lately I've just been doing Floralicous+ (humics and kelp) and Great White and just applying top-down to the root crown.

Next time around I'll just germ in paper towels, then drop em in rockwool and put em in the system right away. The timer is pretty damn fool proof- and with a net pot suspended in air, there's plenty of room for the rockwool to equalize as far as water, so you can never really drown anything. Plus the water thats getting dripped onto it should be higher in DO because of the aerated res that the drip comes from.

Yesdog said:

Took me about 3 weeks before they touched water (8" gap tho!)- I put em in the system pretty much right after that picture was taken. So, top drip in DWC is supposed to really help the plants get along until the roots touch down. Plus this round I started inoculating pretty early with bennies and mychs. Right after i saw roots from the germinated seeds I started applying mychs.

I also really redid my water works in the DWC this time- I kept the top drippers on full blast, but put the pump on a timer (15m every 4-5 hours). I also added some extra drip lines that just waterfall down from the top to help create mist, circulate, and DO. I never saw any signs of over or uderwatering, and the roots took off really quick once they poked out of the pots. The amount of mist I have in the 8" gap i guess was enough to basically be aeroponics enough.

I did regular inoculations, maybe once a weak, of the root crown and net cup- basically weak bennie tea, or lately I've just been doing Floralicous+ (humics and kelp) and Great White and just applying top-down to the root crown.

Next time around I'll just germ in paper towels, then drop em in rockwool and put em in the system right away. The timer is pretty damn fool proof- and with a net pot suspended in air, there's plenty of room for the rockwool to equalize as far as water, so you can never really drown anything. Plus the water thats getting dripped onto it should be higher in DO because of the aerated res that the drip comes from.

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hmmm.. drip system seems to be my next improvement.. its true. in my previous runs, the hydroton net pots i sprayed with a bottle rooted way quicker, and it was because the rockwool kept drying out.
how do you apply the GW or bennies in general to DWC... do you sprinkle it over the hydroton and rockwool cubes? or do you just straight up mix it in a bottle and top feed?? and in essence, is the colony of bennies forming and colonizing in the rockwool/hydroton net pots? or are they thriving in your reservoir. A LOT of mixed opinions on bennies dying or thriving in the water. and im not a chemist or biology inclined enough to have an opinion.. just kinda relying on the threads and a little trial and error.

also, after the seeds show me the first set of leaves.. is it better to remove them from the warm environment and give them a cooler space??
not sure when warmth will hinder the root development. trying to be cautious as to not set myself up for root rot.
i didn't have to account for any of this in promix, so now im just trying to cut my days down in terms of getting them to root quicker.

Bank Breaker said:

hmmm.. drip system seems to be my next improvement.. its true. in my previous runs, the hydroton net pots i sprayed with a bottle rooted way quicker, and it was because the rockwool kept drying out.
how do you apply the GW or bennies in general to DWC... do you sprinkle it over the hydroton and rockwool cubes? or do you just straight up mix it in a bottle and top feed?? and in essence, is the colony of bennies forming and colonizing in the rockwool/hydroton net pots? or are they thriving in your reservoir. A LOT of mixed opinions on bennies dying or thriving in the water. and im not a chemist or biology inclined enough to have an opinion.. just kinda relying on the threads and a little trial and error.

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So, what ive heard as far as mychs in DWC
* They like a higher pH (5.5-7.5)
* They don't need carbs- they'll only breed when colonized on the roots, and the plant is exuding organic acids. You can't manually breed them without synthetic chemicals. Humic/fulvics i guess also help 'release' organic acids (exudates) from the roots. Not sure why or how tho...
* They go dormant during high-P levels (above 70ppm, some dwc schedules/recipes will push you above that, looking at you Lucas Formula)
* They like an ideal DWC temp- 68-72 F
* Can live in well-oxygenated solutions
* They can live in water culture, but they're very physically delicate and don't like much water motion.

So from that, it seemed to make the most sense to me that inoculate top-down: the the colony at the root crown is far more stable and likely to survive, plus the timed drip will help inoculate from the root crown all the way down the exposed roots. I really don't know what happens in the res at that point... but i have definitely noticed that the exposed roots look really myceliated- a bit fluffy and pasty white.

As far as inoculating- I'll mix up a squirt bottle with distilled water and either a) bennie tea + great white or b) floralicious+ + great white and distilled water, then use it all right away: soak the root balls then poor the rest in the tank.

Using the great white top down also gets me a few other benefits-
* Trichoderma which should hang around at at least the root crown and ward off pyth and other bad fungus. We probably want this at the root ball and grow media the most.
* Endo-mychs: this is the important thing to start with early! These live in the roots and are most likely to be successful. They're also very good at protecting the germ while it develops (fun fact, some plant species can't even germinate their seeds without mychs). I've also read it's much harder to introduce them to plants when they're older and the roots are more developed (to not let in pathogens). Probably no point in adding these to older plants, but it all comes in great white anyways. It really isn't an efficient product lol All these bio life have really different requirements and characteristics...
* Exo-mychs: the root hair ones, probably live to some degree or another in the tank- but probably don't myceliate well. Eventually once you get a root ball/knot/cord of roots they can probably colonize better.
* Bacillus strains: These are probably the only thing that freely float around the rez and keep it clean. They'll just eat any leftover organics floating around before other pathogens do. Some might live in the root ball or crown, but we mainly want these in the rez.

Bank Breaker said:

also, after the seeds show me the first set of leaves.. is it better to remove them from the warm environment and give them a cooler space??
not sure when warmth will hinder the root development. trying to be cautious as to not set myself up for root rot.
i didn't have to account for any of this in promix, so now im just trying to cut my days down in terms of getting them to root quicker.

Click to expand...

Once they're in a water culture, you really don't want to get much above 72 F. Even if the roots aren't in the solution yet, you're still asking for trouble by breeding a live soup underneath em. Every time you top-water the plants, water with plant organics (exudates, other stuff) will leach into the rez. That said, I've rocked 80 F temps and survived.

Honestly, the kelp+humics+great white inoculant worked amazingly for me this run. 8" root drop (about 10" total), 3 weeks from first 'true set' of leaves. When the kelp breaks down (the great white does this), it releases a bunch of plant hormones that can encourage root development (this is basically what superthrive is), plus it encourages bio-life in the immediate area. If you suspect there's root rot already, don't use kelp/Fplus- this only works because you're providing the food directly with the biolife, plus Trichoderma is really good at blocking root rot. Floralicious+ on its own has definitely given me root rot (as well kelp extract on its own).

And for the water, use dechlorinated tap water, or if you use distilled or RO you need to add something to water- adding straight great white to it will probably kill everything. Water with nothing in it (hypotonic) is really hard on biolife. So make sure to add stuff to the water, add the great white last. I usually just use the F+- it has enough ionic traces to keep things going, but if you don't want to get humics or kelp involved, just use some micro or cal/mag at the recommended strength. It is good to add *some* organics to the inoculant tho- if your plant crowns are clean, the biolife might stay dormant and just wash out of the crown/media/net-pot. Mix the solution really well, room temperature, and let it sit for a few minutes only. Container should start to puff up a bit with released CO2 (biolife eating).

Kelp really is an amazing component here- it's just liquid plant! All of the biolife in great white survives off of some kind of plant waste, so you're getting a big slurry of bio-food, plus organic acids (natural chelators, like fulvics/humics), and hormones! Neat.

EDIT: and don't try to store the inoculant, or keep it out too long. You're not trying to breed anything here (its not compost tea), you're just trying to wake/activate the microbes and start them feeding so they get a running start when they hit the root crown, plus giving them a bit of food to get started. If it sits too long, the fungus will die (and most of the bacillus), and anaerobic microbes will start to move it.

I've always wondered how to apply GW to the hydroton because of how loose and airy the potnets are, seemed like a waste if i were to sprinkle it onto the hydroton bare. i considered running future grows without hydroton and replace it with just a huge slab of rockwool instead. i figured this would be way easier to keep moist for longer periods of time, hence more root development. and because its a slab of rockwool, it gives a motionless 'nest' for the bennies to form a colony and thrive. (maybe this way i can add a small amt of carbs to feed the colony in the rockwool) i also use 6" net pots so i feel safer securing my monster plant to a slab or rockwool wedged in there rather than hydroton pebbles. my local store started selling bigger sized pebbles so im kinda stuck with these. i found the smaller pebbles worked best when it comes to rooting and overall use. and smaller pebbles hold your plant in place better than bigger pebbles for me.

i found that when you get the GW powder in direct contact with roots THEN transplant, it works phenonmenal opposed to just adding it to water and trying to water your plant with said solution. would be great if someone else here who did a side by side test in terms of application (direct contact with roots or addd to solution then water pots) and vouched for me.

i always tried to shy away from carbs in general when it comes to DWC i find it makes things messy... not sure if anyone else experience this. i get good luck keeping my water temps around 65 *knock on wood so i dont think its high water temps making everything funky.
but that makes a lot of sense why i get frostier buds with more all around taste when i'm in promix opposed to DWC. each has its benefits for me but im truying to get the best of both worlds without sacrificing one for the other (quality and quantity)

Bank Breaker said:

I've always wondered how to apply GW to the hydroton because of how loose and airy the potnets are, seemed like a waste if i were to sprinkle it onto the hydroton bare. i considered running future grows without hydroton and replace it with just a huge slab of rockwool instead. i figured this would be way easier to keep moist for longer periods of time, hence more root development. and because its a slab of rockwool, it gives a motionless 'nest' for the bennies to form a colony and thrive. (maybe this way i can add a small amt of carbs to feed the colony in the rockwool) i also use 6" net pots so i feel safer securing my monster plant to a slab or rockwool wedged in there rather than hydroton pebbles. my local store started selling bigger sized pebbles so im kinda stuck with these. i found the smaller pebbles worked best when it comes to rooting and overall use. and smaller pebbles hold your plant in place better than bigger pebbles for me.

i found that when you get the GW powder in direct contact with roots THEN transplant, it works phenonmenal opposed to just adding it to water and trying to water your plant with said solution. would be great if someone else here who did a side by side test in terms of application (direct contact with roots or addd to solution then water pots) and vouched for me.

i always tried to shy away from carbs in general when it comes to DWC i find it makes things messy... not sure if anyone else experience this. i get good luck keeping my water temps around 65 *knock on wood so i dont think its high water temps making everything funky.
but that makes a lot of sense why i get frostier buds with more all around taste when i'm in promix opposed to DWC. each has its benefits for me but im truying to get the best of both worlds without sacrificing one for the other (quality and quantity)

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crap, forgot a relatively large point: My net cups, I germinate in rockwool (like in the first post) plus i have some pieces of rockwool around the side, then hydroton on top. I think the rockwool really helps gives a place for the fungi to "cling on", like you said.

As far as carbs- yea, my rule is they're only added anywhere with a large and healthy (new) batch of bennies- otherwise you can't be too sure what you're feeding.

And applying GW directly to the roots- I heard this is really good at promoting root growth, some people even mix it with clone gel and use it on fresh cuttings for clones (or gel, then coat with GW). Supposed to work great!