What would you pick led or hps?

tstick

Well-Known Member
The Earths atmosphere acts like a prism for the sunlight. As the angle of the Sun's light changes in a given region, the spectrum will shift. Tilt of the Earth between Winter and Summer changes the spectrum as well as the movement of Earth all contribute to changing spectral input of the Sun. It is correct that the Sun's spectrum, in outer space, doesn't change.
 

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
Are you sure? I never heard of that.
Please give an example.
Yes, this is accurate and the reason why the light spectrum that we see at the surface of the earth varies throughout the day/month/year/location as well as local weather & air quality and even elevation. The atmosphere with all it’s molecules and particle’s, particularly water vapor and dust, can very much act like a prism.


IMG_0812.jpeg

The photo above shows the solar radiation as measured above the atmosphere, as well as at surface level. You can see the amount of energy that is either scattered or absorbed as light passes through the atmosphere and all the associated obstacles within its path.
 

Rennpappe

Active Member
The Earths atmosphere acts like a prism for the sunlight.
This is not true.
The rainbow you show has nothing to do with the atmosphere as a whole but with liquid water droplets in the atmosphere.
The red low sun is because of scattering, and that's what it is: scattering. No prism involved.

You can compare it with listening to music and then you move behind a wall and high frequencies are gone and you hear only the low end. Low frequencies - long waves - will engulf things more easy and stay on track. High frequencies - short waves - will be scattered.

As the angle of the Sun's light changes in a given region, the spectrum will shift.
That is true! :hump:
 
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tstick

Well-Known Member
Water droplets and water vapor are part of the atmosphere, too. I just posted the pic for a reference as to what the atmosphere can do to Sunlight. If you want to disagree, then that's fine.
 

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
Sounds like ya’ll are arguing the semantics between scattering, refraction, and dispersion of visible light.

In that context, light scattering is not what causes the ROYBGIV we see when looking at a rainbow, that would be refraction/dispersion. But… the proportions of colors in the ROYBGIV of a rainbow would in fact be a result of light scattering through the atmosphere before the light was transmitted/reflected/refracted through the water droplets and then therefore dispersed as a rainbow. Not only that, but as mentioned earlier the atmosphere is full of water vapor, gas molecules, dust particles etc… some of which actively refracts light, some of which scatters, some of which reflects, and some of which transmits.

All of this is somewhat irrelevant to the fact that the spectrum that a person/plant sees at ground level is dynamic and will vary based on a host of factors.
 

curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
It's not about agreeing or disagreeing.
What you say is simply false and that's it.
Actually we live in an atmospheric ocean. Our air is filled with water and just like a swimming pool our atmosphere reflects and refracts just like the water droplets it is filled with. Water droplets in our atmosphere act as a prism (refraction/reflection).
 

Rennpappe

Active Member
Sounds like ya’ll are arguing the semantics ...
No.
For years I also thought that the red setting sun must have something to do with the atmosphere acting as a prism. Because it's kind of logic and if you make a drawing of it it kind of looks the same.
But then after I did some research I found out the red setting sun has nothing to do with a prism like atmosphere.
So it's not semantics; it's research and physics.

Actually we live in an atmospheric ocean. Our air is filled with water and just like a swimming pool our atmosphere reflects and refracts just like the water droplets it is filled with
This is complete BS.
Air is filled with gaseous water, not liquid water. Liquid water is present in clouds and rain. Liquid water is visible, gaseous water is not.
You're messing it up even more.
 
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curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
This is complete BS.
Air is filled with gaseous water, not liquid water. Liquid water is present in clouds and rain. Liquid water is visible, gaseous water is not.
You're messing it up even more.
Ok I'm open to being wrong. I've only had three years of university level physics that's not a lot if you are a physics major. So please explain the science to me and use the math.
 

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
I just want to know how this conversation will lead to growing better weed? Or making better LED lights??

So it's not semantics; it's research and physics.
Does the atmosphere as a whole refract and disperse light like a glass prism? No.

Can individual particles in the air refract and disperse light like a glass prism? Yes.
See ice crystals or water droplets suspended in atmosphere


Can large volumes of these particles cumulatively have a prism like effect? Sort of and will depend on the viewers relative sight angle.

Does it have to be raining? No.

Now take a pair of polarized sun glasses and go outside on a partly cloudy day and look up at the clouds around midday. You might see rainbows around the edge of the clouds, that you couldn’t see without the polarized glasses. You can see them with the glasses because the light has been refracted by the time it reaches your eye. Just because you can’t perceive it, as without any sunglasses, doesn’t mean it isn’t still happening.

Of course on a clear day, the atmosphere doesn’t refract and disperse pure white light from the sun into psychedelic disco-floor colors all across the sky.
The amount of spectrum change we see at the ground surface is due mostly from Rayleigh and Mie Scattering through whatever composition of atmosphere is local and the relative zenith angle of the sun.
But excluding reflection, refraction and dispersion from our local spectrum viewing is not always applicable and therefore, can’t be stated as an absolute. Just because you’re standing on the wrong side of the rainbow, doesn’t mean it isn’t there for others to see from their relative viewing angle. The same thing happens with some atmospheric particles and aerosols. Sometimes on in individual molecule basis, sometimes as a collection of molecules.

But don’t take my word for it, please research this deeper.
 

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curious2garden

Well-Known Mod
Staff member
I just want to know how this conversation will lead to growing better weed? Or making better LED lights??
Oops, great point, I'm always attracted to a sciencey black hole when high and this PG is great. I also really enjoyed @grotbags Blazing Saddles clip. Thanks guys let's get back to LEDs and not useless arguing about proven science :) Carry on
 
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