what r the best Ballast out on the market ???

2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
since1991 said:
Build yourself ones rite? What does a completed kit cost to run.....say... 4x4 or 4x8 tables??
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It gets costly building a Cob unit real numbers 120 cobs shipped to door 8000.00 you still need drivers, heat sinks , holders , lens , or reflectors etc

so all said n done your looking at 400 unit 41 bucks per cob x 8 heat sinks, drivers, misc , wire, and your time which i did not add i would safely say 500 - 550 for all parts not including metal or what your putting them into the box and that is 400 watts nd what people are 1.5 gpw on average @ 52 percent efficiency so no matter what 48 percent is still heat
with my set up 6000 watts i will in fact Dim them ... under drive them which will lower power and increase efficiency for instance this is what 1600 watts covering in 7 x 4 and change area 28 Sq feet ?? 57 watts per Sq foot
PPFD At about 4.65 umol/J, 1600 x .56 / 28 x 10.7 x 4.65 = 1592
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
SPLFreak808 said:
Aren't all in one DE's obsolete already though in terms of par output?
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Nah like i said for instance only to make a 400 watt Cob diy unit your looking at what honestly ??? Canada here cobs after converting to USA not including shipping was 7100.00 for 120 cobs that is a shit load of cash shipping not included specially at currency exchange rates etc ... 3590's only you still need heat sinks holders lens or reflectors like i said wiring and the box now this is for 6000 watts i cold of very easily ordered 16 1215 watt units for the price of cobs
@ 3 pounds per light or lets round it up 20,000 watts so 16 x 3 48 pound harvest you can safely say 6000 watts of Cobs are not going to get them numbers but hey might put them in one green house and do a grow :) green house style 300 gallon raised beds live soil that is the plans for now as spring is on its way :) or do a 1600 watt indoor but i can not see it more like Fall where i can really guage what is what maybe a 400- 800 watt grow this summer like i said right now rigging up few green houses for up n coming summer

I am lucky thou have a master appliance electrician that does this shit anxious in putting them together as he is also interested in it
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
Nah like i said for instance only to make a 400 watt Cob diy unit your looking at what honestly ??? Canada here cobs after converting to USA not including shipping was 7100.00 for 120 cobs that is a shit load of cash shipping not included specially at currency exchange rates etc ... 3590's only you still need heat sinks holders lens or reflectors like i said wiring and the box now this is for 6000 watts i cold of very easily ordered 16 1215 watt units for the price of cobs
@ 3 pounds per light or lets round it up 20,000 watts so 16 x 3 48 pound harvest you can safely say 6000 watts of Cobs are not going to get them numbers but hey might put them in one green house and do a grow :) green house style 300 gallon raised beds live soil that is the plans for now as spring is on its way :) or do a 1600 watt indoor but i can not see it more like Fall where i can really guage what is what maybe a 400- 800 watt grow this summer like i said right now rigging up few green houses for up n coming summer

I am lucky thou have a master appliance electrician that does this shit anxious in putting them together as he is also interested in it
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With a 400 watt hps is realistically like for a 2x2, when you have 400 watts of cob is the plant layout bigger? So like does the 400 watt cob eat up more space or can you easily run it in a 2x2?
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
Hey bud i am not the guy but i am using like 32 x 48 t 12 units to make a 400 watt unit Yes mongo i purchased cobs lol seriously fucking never thought i would but you know me from way back and i am trying to get away with big power and that is 1000 units so placing 4 of them units together giving me 64" x 96 or 5 x 8 40 Sq feet so with 1600 watts in 40 Sq feet compared to either when i did 5 x 10 2000 watts magnetic 5 pounds dry or 5 x 10 2430 watts 6 1/4 dry pounds De's
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
Now iam totally lost here....when yall sat 7 - 8 grand for cobs what does this mean to traditional HID growers? Cuz that shit sounds way outta my wallet. What little i know abot LED is them Spyder 1200's and those are way too pricey for my bankroll. Iam willing to i investigate but i hear so much conflicting info.
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
Hey bud i am not the guy but i am using like 32 x 48 t 12 units to make a 400 watt unit Yes mongo i purchased cobs lol seriously fucking never thought i would but you know me from way back and i am trying to get away with big power and that is 1000 units so placing 4 of them units together giving me 64" x 96 or 5 x 8 40 Sq feet so with 1600 watts in 40 Sq feet compared to either when i did 5 x 10 2000 watts magnetic 5 pounds dry or 5 x 10 2430 watts 6 1/4 dry pounds De's
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Real quick, What ever happened to your miracle grow commercial run? There was like 60 of them maybe more.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
With a 400 watt hps is realistically like for a 2x2, when you have 400 watts of cob is the plant layout bigger? So like does the 400 watt cob eat up more space or can you easily run it in a 2x2?
Click to expand...
You can buy or build COB LED lighting solutions for basically any plant ready space from one square foot on up to the sky and budget is the limit.

I designed and had built a module with driver and COBs. Then I had it replicated by the dozen, so they become flexible and interchangeable as the famed Lego toy blocks from my youth. This way I can mount them as densely as needed to achieve a desired light level. Being modular, they're very easy to reconfigure and work with in numbers.

To answer your question above, keep in mind that you can run a 250W, 400W or even get away with a well cooled 600W in that space. Each of those is a very different style, however.

The same is true of the COB LED chips the guys over on these very LED forums of RIU are designing, building and sharing. 2x2=4sq ft, so as little as 100W of efficiently driven (read low wattage, also means more chips and thus higher initial cost) LED would work very well.

At the other end if the scale, I'd imagine a budget high PAR build with fewer chips running at higher amps pulling as much as 400W just absolutely blasting the bejeezus out of the plants. If the system can support the plant's ability to take the glare, then that's what high intensity gardening is all about, right?
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
Hey bud i am not the guy but i am using like 32 x 48 t 12 units to make a 400 watt unit Yes mongo i purchased cobs lol seriously fucking never thought i would but you know me from way back and i am trying to get away with big power and that is 1000 units so placing 4 of them units together giving me 64" x 96 or 5 x 8 40 Sq feet so with 1600 watts in 40 Sq feet compared to either when i did 5 x 10 2000 watts magnetic 5 pounds dry or 5 x 10 2430 watts 6 1/4 dry pounds De's
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So your saying 5 1/2 feet by 8 feet with 1000 watt of cobs?
 
since1991

since1991

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You can buy or build COB LED lighting solutions for basically any plant ready space from one square foot on up to the sky and budget is the limit

I designed and had built a module with driver and COBs. Then I had it replicated by the dozen, so they become flexible and interchangeable as the famed Lego toy blocks from my youth. This way I can mount them as densely as needed to achieve a desired light level. Being modular, they're very easy to reconfigure and work with in numbers.

To answer your question above, keep in mind that you can run a 250W, 400W or even get away with a well cooled 600W in that space. Each of those is a very different style, however.

The same is true of the COB LED chips the guys over on these very LED forums of RIU are designing, building and sharing. 2x2=4sq ft, so as little as 100W of efficiently driven (read low wattage, also means more chips and thus higher initial cost) LED would work very well.

At the other end if the scale, I'd imagine a budget high PAR build with fewer chips running at higher amps pulling as much as 400W just absolutely blasting the bejeezus out of the plants. If the system can support the plant's ability to take the glare, then that's what high intensity gardening is all about, right?
Click to expand...
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
But the truth is efficiency and yes cob is better but pending on how you configure it this is one thing i never really checked into maybe someone can chime in
for instance i will be at 52 percent efficient,, not sure what efficiency DE's are but 5 - 10 perent difference is like pissing in a lake and seeing if you see your yellow piss its fuck all
And most importantly sure you can under drive them and bring up efficiency but yields might also suffer but i will be able to see it first hand buy running side by sides like 2 - 400's Cob's full power vs in yields with 2 - 400 cobs @ half power which do you think will yield more lol but the best part is 3 - 400 watt cobs Vs 1215 DE so i got some fun and unbiased tests to do on my end lol

But people got to realize Seriously them De units are bad mother fuckers i mean they kick ass ,, and for 430 bucks for nanno DE 1215 watter you will also get numbers
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You can buy or build COB LED lighting solutions for basically any plant ready space from one square foot on up to the sky and budget is the limit.

I designed and had built a module with driver and COBs. Then I had it replicated by the dozen, so they become flexible and interchangeable as the famed Lego toy blocks from my youth. This way I can mount them as densely as needed to achieve a desired light level. They're very easy to reconfigure.

To answer your question above, keep in mind that you can run a 250W, 400W or even get away with a well cooled 600W in that space. Each of those is a very different style, however.

The same is true of the COB LED chips the guys over on these very LED forums of RIU are designing, building and sharing. 2x2=4sq ft, so as little as 100W of efficiently driven (read low wattage, also means more chips and thus higher initial cost) LED would work very well.

At the other end if the scale, I'd imagine a budget high PAR build with fewer chips running at higher amps pulling as much as 400W just absolutely blasting the bejeezus out of the plants. If the system can support the plant's ability to take the glare, then that's what high intensity gardening is all about, right?
Click to expand...
Awesome explanation thanks. So you do have to spread the cobs out more for more yield? Like same with gavita now all of the sudden you get a 5x5 or a little bigger? I was just trying to understand the efficiency a little better compared to other lamps. Like if 400 watt cob does 3x3 or 4x4, but 2 400 watt hps can do 4x4. I know your paying more in electricity (barley any really), I don't know i was just thinking to my self i guess. I really would like a 4 bar array, but am i really only saving on paying for 200 watts? Hope i didn't loose any one. Im probably way off base.
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You can buy or build COB LED lighting solutions for basically any plant ready space from one square foot on up to the sky and budget is the limit.

I designed and had built a module with driver and COBs. Then I had it replicated by the dozen, so they become flexible and interchangeable as the famed Lego toy blocks from my youth. This way I can mount them as densely as needed to achieve a desired light level. Being modular, they're very easy to reconfigure and work with in numbers.

To answer your question above, keep in mind that you can run a 250W, 400W or even get away with a well cooled 600W in that space. Each of those is a very different style, however.

The same is true of the COB LED chips the guys over on these very LED forums of RIU are designing, building and sharing. 2x2=4sq ft, so as little as 100W of efficiently driven (read low wattage, also means more chips and thus higher initial cost) LED would work very well.

At the other end if the scale, I'd imagine a budget high PAR build with fewer chips running at higher amps pulling as much as 400W just absolutely blasting the bejeezus out of the plants. If the system can support the plant's ability to take the glare, then that's what high intensity gardening is all about, right?
Click to expand...
could you post a picture of this unit you got going now ????
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
Awesome explanation thanks. So you do have to spread the cobs out more for more yield? Like same with gavita now all of the sudden you get a 5x5 or a little bigger? I was just trying to understand the efficiency a little better compared to other lamps. Like if 400 watt cob does 3x3 or 4x4, but 2 400 watt hps can do 4x4. I know your paying more in electricity (barley any really), I don't know i was just thinking to my self i guess. I really would like a 4 bar array, but am i really only saving on paying for 200 watts? Hope i didn't loose any one. Im probably way off base.
Click to expand...
I am looking forward to actually testing the out put of my cobs everyone here has it to a science but i am looking forward to testing them like this test 4 feet above the plant to see what is what real time

 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
a mongo frog said:
Awesome explanation thanks. So you do have to spread the cobs out more for more yield? Like same with gavita now all of the sudden you get a 5x5 or a little bigger? I was just trying to understand the efficiency a little better compared to other lamps. Like if 400 watt cob does 3x3 or 4x4, but 2 400 watt hps can do 4x4. I know your paying more in electricity (barley any really), I don't know i was just thinking to my self i guess. I really would like a 4 bar array, but am i really only saving on paying for 200 watts? Hope i didn't loose any one. Im probably way off base.
Click to expand...
You're trying, but it's complicated and I'm not explaining it very well.

One big rule is not to over or under drive your HID lamps. It hurts both life and performance of the lamp to do it.

COB LED is totally different. The full nominal rated wattage of the chip is where it emits the most light, but is at its LEAST efficient. Higher drive current always equals lower efficiency in a given chip. As you might imagine, different chips have different 'current droop' curves, making them relatively more or less suitable for this kind of underclocking, if you like.

A few more expensive chips can be taken pretty far in this direction, generating some eye opening efficiency numbers. However, it's also very expensive to buy four or six times as many chips for a given wattage draw as when one chooses to run the chip at its maximum power. Here lies the basic design tradeoff. Do you need low heat, high efficiency or is more output your goal?

Better spectrum is also easily obtained relative to most HID lights, and is one of the additional benefits gained.

Finally we come to projected lifespan. The leading adopters don't know, because every year or two they keep upgrading their chips! The consensus is to keep your chips cool and run them softly to get the best life from them.

Hope this helps.
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
I am looking forward to actually testing the out put of my cobs everyone here has it to a science but i am looking forward to testing them like this test 4 feet above the plant to see what is what real time

Click to expand...
That needs to be done. For the big tree gardeners. Or for the stretchy og fucking gardeners that only want to veg for 23 or 24 days.
 
2ANONYMOUS

2ANONYMOUS

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
You're trying, but it's complicated and I'm not explaining it very well.

One big rule is not to over or under drive your HID lamps. It hurts both life and performance of the lamp to do it.

COB LED is totally different. The full nominal rated wattage of the chip is where it emits the most light, but is at its LEAST efficient. Higher drive current always equals lower efficiency in a given chip. As you might imagine, different chips have different 'current droop' curves, making them relatively more or less suitable for this kind of underclocking, if you like.

A few more expensive chips can be taken pretty far in this direction, generating some eye opening efficiency numbers. However, it's also very expensive to buy four or six times as many chips for a given wattage draw as when one chooses to run the chip at its maximum power. Here lies the basic design tradeoff. Do you need low heat, high efficiency or is more output your goal?

Better spectrum is also easily obtained relative to most HID lights, and is one of the additional benefits gained.

Finally we come to projected lifespan. The leading adopters don't know, because every year or two they keep upgrading their chips! The consensus is to keep your chips cool and run them softly to get the best life from them.

Hope this helps.
Click to expand...
yes but many tend to forget and what many been screaming about is UV so like you said its a trade off you know for resin production you know the protection of the plant and what we seek the most lol
Cause Unlike incandescent and fluorescent light sources, Cree LED Lighting products produce virtually no light in the ultraviolet (UV) or infrared (IR) spectrums. i guess that is why Growmaus appears to run some UV in his grow rooms
 
a mongo frog

a mongo frog

Well-Known Member
2ANONYMOUS said:
yes but many tend to forget and what many been screaming about is UV so like you said its a trade off
Cause Unlike incandescent and fluorescent light sources, Cree LED Lighting products produce virtually no light in the ultraviolet (UV) or infrared (IR) spectrums.
Click to expand...
Yea but cree stock is almost 30 a share. So please keep it happy with the word Cree!!!!
 
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