vote NO on legalized and TAXED

F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
i'm voting no because that is my right as a voter. i don't need to justify it to you. and it's not like i'll change your mind, so why bother? so you can pick apart my points? or do you think you can sway me?

i have listed numerous reasons throughout this forum in the past few weeks. i feel like a parrot with the redundancy. i'm over it. when my ballot comes, i'll fill it out. :)
 
Leothwyn

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
I'll wait until I read the whole bill before I make up my mind on this one. But, I'm VERY confident that this is not our only chance at it. This whole country is moving toward legalization. It may seem slow, but it's definitely going that way.
 
F

fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Leothwyn said:
I'll wait until I read the whole bill before I make up my mind on this one. But, I'm VERY confident that this is not our only chance at it. This whole country is moving toward legalization. It may seem slow, but it's definitely going that way.
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exactly.

every day a new states is pushing for medical. everyone keeps saying "this is our only chance". that's all BS. if cali votes NO then the whole country will be raided and shut down. that's just silly. :roll:
 
Nitegazer

Nitegazer

Well-Known Member
FDD,

I must say that unfettered legalization would be a boon. The current referendum reads like an admission that pot is a problem, and an invitation to government to help control it (and us). I salute your sticking to principles over politics, because in politics we will all get the short end of the stick.

The number of people growing their own is a problem for our government. They can't control the inflow of seeds and breeding, they can't control the sale of growing equipment (not to mention outdoor growing efforts). Many citizens feel that too much money and effort is being on the Marijuana 'Drug Wars.' Of course the next thing that Gov't would try is to get US to pay for their regulation of what we grow on our own private property.

I agree that this is not the 'last chance' at legalization. This wouldn't even be up for a vote unless Gov't was having a real hard time with the current system. This is their first offer at a compromise--- one that is in their favor, and one that extends their reach into our personal lives.

How many growers were invited to the table to hammer out the language of the referendum? How could it possibly be in growers' interest? I don't live in Cal, so I can't vote on it, but I would support true legalization--- without taxation and regulation. I don't vote for candidates that I don't support, even if they are 'better than the alternative.' This referendum is better than the current alternative, but the price for legitimacy is too high.
 
bajafox

bajafox

Well-Known Member
Nitegazer, the problem with California, as it is I'm sure in most other states, people vote for who the tv tells them to vote. Very few people actually read and research what or who they are voting for.

It's going to come down to a bunch of people who do and a bunch of people who don't want it legalized without any reason whatsoever, simply that they do or don't want it "legal" The people who do their own research and actually read the proposition will make an 'educated' vote, for the rest of California, it's up to the TV to tell them what to vote for... I'm very curious to see who is or isn't for Prop 19, for now I guess Meg Whitmans $120M campaign is all there is during commercials
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
selfish would be voting YES simply so YOU can have YOUR ounce. what about the people already in jail? shouldn't we free them first?

selfish. :roll:
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it seems that some folks would like to solve all the problems at once. haven't we learned by now that such legislation causes more trouble than it solves? just take a look at the massive bills that congress has recently pushed through, trying to solve our health care and economic problems. each time we try to institute some grand panacea, it blows up in our face. maybe the mj community should be wise enough to realize that small steps are better than either standing still or leaping blindly forward.

there is nothing about this insane prohibition that doesn't run contrary to the basic spirit of the constitution, but we have labored under it for decades. this is a chance for california to prove our herb's innocuous nature to those who still deny the obvious truth or have been brainwashed by decades of reefer madness inanity. why would we ignore this chance and give our enemies the sort of ammunition that a defeat would surely provide? the very first few words of the link you provided shows the fanatical impatience of their cause, "we are not interested in compromise solutions". just what sort of infantile attitude is that? if we are to engage in the political arena, we must first realize that all of politics is the art of compromise. unless you have the power to shove your agenda down everyone else's throats, like brak and his cronies do at present, such an all or nothing attitude will get you precisely nothing.
 
Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
a) What SHOULD BE = Complete freedom and self ownership for peaceful people

b) What IS NOW = No ownership of self, incarceration fines, police brutality, etc.

c) What IS PROPOSED = "regulated and taxed freedom"

I'd like a steak, but if a shitty hamburger is all that's on the menu I'll probably eat it. Doesn't mean I wouldn't RATHER have a steak though.

With that said, who the fuck do "they" think they are to regulate self ownership? I'll tell you, they are the ones with badges, guns and egotistical public office holding attitudes.

The consequences on a person of attempting to enjoy self ownership can lead to confiscation of your home, incarceration and/or getting killed by a nice policeman. So why in the world does anybody still believe government has YOUR interests in mind?

If you don't own yourself...somebody else does. Stop giving them money. Don't pay their stupid taxes on a fucking plant.

As much as I'd feel like a hypocrite, I'd hold my nose and vote for "tax and regulate" this year as it may be the hole in the dike that leads to a watershed of Pot laws going away or at least it will generate national debate and progress. As the political pendulum swings, it is no guarantee that pot laws will not become MORE oppressive if California's initiative fails.


disclaimer - I still hate the bastards and the facade of the political process in general. kiss-ass
 
potroast

potroast

Uses the Rollitup profile
fdd2blk said:
it has nothing to do with selfishness. this does not effect me, so how can it be selfish?

i feel if it passes there will be a higher demand for more pot, which is good for me. it will cause an increase in demand which is an increase in sales. i like this thought. for me, IMO, voting yes could easily benefit me financially. yet i'm still voting NO.
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If it doesn't affect you, then why would you vote against it? If I told you that it WILL affect me in a positive way, then you would certainly vote for it, right? And you would not be campaigning against it.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
Leothwyn said:
This whole country is moving toward legalization. It may seem slow, but it's definitely going that way.
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that's just what we said when we decriminalized. how many decades ago was that? we seem to labor under this delusion that government is a rational animal and that the people will have the final say, even though we are shown on an almost daily basis that this is not the case.
 
undertheice

undertheice

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
so the feds will be all cool with this passing?
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of course not. they'll probably fight it tooth and nail, just as they are trying to crucify arizona for its attempt to protect itself from their invasion from the south. the smart thing for them to do would be to realize that it is really a small thing and unimportant to them in the grand scheme of things, but those control freaks never were big on rational thought.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
i'm voting no because that is my right as a voter. i don't need to justify it to you. and it's not like i'll change your mind, so why bother? so you can pick apart my points? or do you think you can sway me?
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What kind of attitude is that to have, man? I simply wanted to know the reasons you thought were logical enough to vote against it. You do have reasons, right? Nobody is asking you to justify anything.

Nitegazer said:
FDD,

I must say that unfettered legalization would be a boon. The current referendum reads like an admission that pot is a problem, and an invitation to government to help control it (and us). I salute your sticking to principles over politics, because in politics we will all get the short end of the stick.
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Like I said, at a certain point it becomes a waste of time and you must change tactics in order to make progress.


Nobody is saying "this is our only shot!!!". What I've heard being said is that if California votes this down, how do you think the rest of the nation is going to view that? California is one of the most, if not the most, liberal states in the union, conservatives from every single state will stand up and point at how "dangerous" marijuana is, even Californians won't vote to make it legal and regulated. It'll be another decade before we get another chance like this, it's like the moon and stars and sun are all in perfect alignment for this to happen and still people vote no! People with secret reasons they like to keep to themselves for some reason... :roll:
Rob Roy said:
a) What SHOULD BE = Complete freedom and self ownership for peaceful people

b) What IS NOW = No ownership of self, incarceration fines, police brutality, etc.

c) What IS PROPOSED = "regulated and taxed freedom"

I'd like a steak, but if a shitty hamburger is all that's on the menu I'll probably eat it. Doesn't mean I wouldn't RATHER have a steak though.

With that said, who the fuck do "they" think they are to regulate self ownership? I'll tell you, they are the ones with badges, guns and egotistical public office holding attitudes.

The consequences on a person of attempting to enjoy self ownership can lead to confiscation of your home, incarceration and/or getting killed by a nice policeman. So why in the world does anybody still believe government has YOUR interests in mind?

If you don't own yourself...somebody else does. Stop giving them money. Don't pay their stupid taxes on a fucking plant.

As much as I'd feel like a hypocrite, I'd hold my nose and vote for "tax and regulate" this year as it may be the hole in the dike that leads to a watershed of Pot laws going away or at least it will generate national debate and progress. As the political pendulum swings, it is no guarantee that pot laws will not become MORE oppressive if California's initiative fails.


disclaimer - I still hate the bastards and the facade of the political process in general. kiss-ass
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F T W !

Couldn't have said it better. +rep
 
Sustainable420

Sustainable420

Active Member
fdd2blk said:
i'm voting no because that is my right as a voter. i don't need to justify it to you. and it's not like i'll change your mind, so why bother? so you can pick apart my points? or do you think you can sway me?

i have listed numerous reasons throughout this forum in the past few weeks. i feel like a parrot with the redundancy. i'm over it. when my ballot comes, i'll fill it out. :)
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I want it to be legal. It's probably because my livelihood doesn't depend on it. *cough* Fdd=bootlegger and baptist situation.

The med. card system in Cali. will still be there if you want to smoke at 18, so that gets rid of that. The plot doesn't have to be necessairily 5x5, just 25 sq. ft. That's plenty of space. You can have as much weed (the 1 oz. rule also counts for hash, if I'm not mistaken) as you want in your house, just when you take it out have to play by the rules. I say don't regulate the free market just because the decentralized status quo will have competition.
 
Leothwyn

Leothwyn

Well-Known Member
undertheice said:
that's just what we said when we decriminalized. how many decades ago was that? we seem to labor under this delusion that government is a rational animal and that the people will have the final say, even though we are shown on an almost daily basis that this is not the case.
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I'm sure you've seen the issue in the news as much as I have. It's no longer some fringe thing - it's mainstream (as far as awareness of the issue goes). The changes are coming much more quickly now, and it seems to be exponential. The more states that legalize medical use, the more likely it is that other states will allow it. It will go the same with full legalization IMO. It's going to happen, and this is not our only chance at it.
 
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