Vertical Bare Bulbs for Tall Plants

collective gardener said:

I put in 2 bare bulb 600's in the grow today. We;re going to add 4 more and slide them around the 12 - 1000's in reflectors. I have about 20 plants in veg that I'm not topping. Once they're about 4 feet tall, we'll move em into the bloom room and pack em around the 6 - 600's. I chose 600's to start so I can see what the heat load will be. If it works well, we'll move in some 1000's and remove some of the 1000's in reflectors. It comes a time where we just have to start trying shit out. Thanks for all the input, and please keep it coming.,

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collective gardner, that's an awesome grow you have happening, it's exciting!

btw, what kind of ballasts and bulbs do you run and what was your thinking around it?

rosecitypapa said:

collective gardner, that's an awesome grow you have happening, it's exciting!

btw, what kind of ballasts and bulbs do you run and what was your thinking around it?

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I started with a couple lumatek 1000's. The next 2 I bought were bad out of the box. I switched to Phantoms for the next 16 - 1000's and 4 - 600's. I like the Phantoms for a couple reasons: They are sold by Hydrofarm so any probs we have my hydro store can get dealt with directly from Hydrofarm (Lumateks are 3rd party). They come with the adaptor to work with either Sun System or Hydrofarm reflectors (Lumateks only come with 1 or the other). The mounting system on the Phantoms holds them a couple inches off the wall, increasing air flow and reducing heat. I get the 1000's for $289 vs $299 for the Lumateks.

I'm kind of anal with my veg lighting. People concentrate so much on bloom lighting that they forget how importan a good veg is. This is especially true in my grow because I need my plants to really yield with my limitted numbers. From cutting the clone till going into bloom is 8 weeks.

I start with the clones under a T-8 flourrescent grow light. Cheap, not too bright.

Once rooted they go under a T-5 in a 4" rockwool block for a week. This is to develope enough roots to deal with the real lights. By the end of that week, the T-5 is almost touching the tops.

Next, we transplant into 5 gallon pots and go onto a 4x8 table with 2 - 1000 watt Hortilux Daylight Blue's in Adjustawing Reflectors. I like the daylight Blues because of the VERY tight node spacing they provide. The Adjustawing is my favorite reflector, bar none. If it was somehow air cooled, I'd have 20 of them in the room. I use it at this stage because I feel this first 2 weeks of serious veg growth is the most important. These tight nodes will ultimately be my main branching...and I want alot of it.

After these plants start crowding, the go on the floor under 4 - Sun Pulse 6.4k Pulse Start Metal Halides in Sun System Block Buster Reflectors. These bulbs are made for digital ballasts, are really bright, and stay bright for close to a year. The 6.4k color temp provides enough true blue for tight nodes. But the real reason I choose these is for penetration. The plants are getting bushy now and I need a light that can get down in the nooks and crannys. The daylight blue is a better spectrum, but not as bright as a pulse start.

For Blooming I use the Digilux HPS. Once again, it's designed for digital ballasts. The color has some blue (much like the Hortilux Eye HPS), and it pumps out 155,000 lumens. I chose this over the Hortilux (a bulb I've used for many years) because I believe that the hortilux was not designed for digital ballasts and will fade early.

I hope this answers your questions.

sorry i only read the first page but is this what you mean?:

few things: 1) can you *tell we're mid build?
2) the t5s are temporary/supplemental
3) upgrading to 'code' for our medigrow, i'll let you know when it's done and i start a grow diary... we're doing 'vertical bare bulbs with trees' just like you asked for....

mellokitty said:

sorry i only read the first page but is this what you mean?:
View attachment 1470122
few things: 1) can you *tell we're mid build?
2) the t5s are temporary/supplemental
3) upgrading to 'code' for our medigrow, i'll let you know when it's done and i start a grow diary... we're doing 'vertical bare bulbs with trees' just like you asked for....

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Yeah. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Have you used this method before? I'd love to hear all the greasy details: light spacing, plant size, training, plant/light layout, yield per plant, yield per watt, light height.

We are also a legal med grow. Currently running 12 - 1000 watt lights in the bloom room, and 6 - 1000 watt lights in veg. I keep roughly 45 plants in veg and 45 in bloom at any point in time. That's roughly 4 plants/light. Needless to say, we're trying to get the most yield per plant as possible. Yield/watt and per sq ft are not as important. I can always add lights and space, but I can't add plants. Our current crops are FIM'd and tied down and out, giving us 3 foot plants that are very wide. We're trying to determine if we'd be better off with a settup like yours.

Check out our grow so you can see what we're dealing with. Any info would be great. You are exactly the person I have been wanting to talk to.

https://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/407048-20-000-watt-medical-grow.html

AND, the op looks fantastic so far. I am all too familiar with how much work you guys have done.

sorry for the delay, i just realized i forgot to sub to this thread.... (subbed now)
just quickly, because i have to run out the door soon:
we've used this method for years, and know a few people that have/do. the magic ratio seems to be 3 or 4 plants/light; i've seen this in dirt and hydro, large and small scale, and it seems to be the best for light dist/yield/ease of use, especially since you seem to have some shrubby ladies ready to go (sorry i only skimmed the first couple pages)? we're in rush mode right now because our own ladies are getting, um, 'unruly' where they're being babysat, and we don't want to ask the nice folks who are already doing us a favour to do our LST for us too .

so jealous. our plant allowance is less than half that.

the vertical donkey dicks have certain disadvantages as well:
1) if you're not careful where you put your plants back, you can come back to singed branches.
2) since you're moving away from vented hoods/cooltubes/etc. (again, sorry, i haven't taken a good look at your room...) you need to adjust your vent capabilities to accomodate the extra heat.
3) it's not a party until you stand back up and take one of them to the back of the neck/ear/shoulder....fun!

that said, most of us who've tried it have never looked back. ^these become somewhat moot once you've adjusted to them, and it's nice to see all the light getting used efficiently by everyone.

gotta run for now but keep up the good work! (and thank you!) looking forward to swapping more notes....

Thanks Kitty. We're going to finish up the Bubbas we have in bloom under the reflectors. This will give me a chance to study your grow (you WILL be posting pictures, I hope). We have 20 Lavander X Afgan X Purple Kush vegetating un-topped. These will be our test bed for the vertical bulbs. I think we'll start with about 6 bulbs. I can get the added vent capacity when we disconnect the lighting venting for those 6 lights. That venting will then be room venting. I'm really exited to try this. 20+ years in this game and I can still get exited. Yipeee.

Looking forward to seeing your grow in full operation. Good luck with your code compliance...it can be a bitch.

hopefully the in-house committee approves enough of what happens to the girls to let me post them... they really are kind of lanky and out-of-hand right now (not the best way to make a first impression, you know? lol) and i know hubby's not happy about that. we shall see....
right now we're working with mostly og with a smattering of bubbas.... definitely good to start with a smaller sample; i'm a big fan of 'comfort zone' style gardening.

will let you know when i start my grow journal for sure....

mellokitty said:

hopefully the in-house committee approves enough of what happens to the girls to let me post them... they really are kind of lanky and out-of-hand right now (not the best way to make a first impression, you know? lol) and i know hubby's not happy about that. we shall see....
right now we're working with mostly og with a smattering of bubbas.... definitely good to start with a smaller sample; i'm a big fan of 'comfort zone' style gardening.

will let you know when i start my grow journal for sure....

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Most of our grow is Bubbas. They aren't a real bushy plant. I'm always suprised how much they yield despite looking lanky during veg. I've never had a Bubba form a true cola. It's more individual nuggets. I'm sure with the amount of light you have those nuggets will be rock hard and heavy. Tell the hubby to show em off with a qualification. Everyone has had a grow that got off to a less than perfect start. Either way, good luck fellow Bubba growers.

omg *tell me about it.... just finished helping a friend of mine do stalk-support on some bubbas. it's like the never-ending plant when you're looking at it from underneath.
looking forward to working with more bubbas though. our og is a starting to be a bit 'tired' i think.

hubby *is a bit of a perfectionist lol.... on the one hand, he's kind of grumpy about the girls being so lanky, on the other hand, it's part of his set of murphy laws that the first run out of a room is bound to be a bit of a write-off (especially when you end up building around the babies towards the end, like we have....*sigh*)

mellokitty said:

omg *tell me about it.... just finished helping a friend of mine do stalk-support on some bubbas. it's like the never-ending plant when you're looking at it from underneath.
looking forward to working with more bubbas though. our og is a starting to be a bit 'tired' i think.

hubby *is a bit of a perfectionist lol.... on the one hand, he's kind of grumpy about the girls being so lanky, on the other hand, it's part of his set of murphy laws that the first run out of a room is bound to be a bit of a write-off (especially when you end up building around the babies towards the end, like we have....*sigh*)

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Know all about building around live plants. The original plan was to complete room 100% before any plants. Well, a friend offered 30 buubas just after we painted. They were about 1 foot tall...I couldn't resist. So, the rest of the build is goig at 1/4 speed. Then he shows up with 25 of the Lavader cross. I took those too. Yesterday we were installing carbon filters while working around 30 big ass blooming plants...saw dust all over them. Today, we're running ducting and watering and pruning and bending and transplanting and cutting clones and installing more light and installing an AC and and and...I'm tired just writing it.

We're lucky in that this 1st grow will not be a write off. We have enough space and light to just use brute force to get us through these. We'll work on fine tuning technique next batch.

collective gardener said:

We're lucky in that this 1st grow will not be a write off. We have enough space and light to just use brute force to get us through these. We'll work on fine tuning technique next batch.

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indeed. and ours isn't going to be a WRITEOFF writeoff either (hopefully), lanky means tall and that could be good (just more canopy control). stunted babies, or if we hadn't had reliable babysitters up to this point. now *that would be a writeoff.... *knocking wood*

this has been a week of collecting karma points, everybody and their dog needs some sort of hand with their show, and i'm happy to oblige, but seriously, when it rains it pours eh? i wish they would just up and legalise it so i can start whoring out my 'cannabis service service' better and have consistent work instead of being booked 'can-you-get-here-yesterday' at half a dozen places only every so often. janitorial, botanical, 'landscaping' (or an extended haircut if you wish), electrical, plumbing, all manner of repetetive tasks, talking in from the ledge, we do it all....

mellokitty said:

indeed. and ours isn't going to be a WRITEOFF writeoff either (hopefully), lanky means tall and that could be good (just more canopy control). stunted babies, or if we hadn't had reliable babysitters up to this point. now *that would be a writeoff.... *knocking wood*

this has been a week of collecting karma points, everybody and their dog needs some sort of hand with their show, and i'm happy to oblige, but seriously, when it rains it pours eh? i wish they would just up and legalise it so i can start whoring out my 'cannabis service service' better and have consistent work instead of being booked 'can-you-get-here-yesterday' at half a dozen places only every so often. janitorial, botanical, 'landscaping' (or an extended haircut if you wish), electrical, plumbing, all manner of repetetive tasks, talking in from the ledge, we do it all....

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Hello kitty, good points all.

mellokitty said:

indeed. and ours isn't going to be a WRITEOFF writeoff either (hopefully), lanky means tall and that could be good (just more canopy control). stunted babies, or if we hadn't had reliable babysitters up to this point. now *that would be a writeoff.... *knocking wood*

this has been a week of collecting karma points, everybody and their dog needs some sort of hand with their show, and i'm happy to oblige, but seriously, when it rains it pours eh? i wish they would just up and legalise it so i can start whoring out my 'cannabis service service' better and have consistent work instead of being booked 'can-you-get-here-yesterday' at half a dozen places only every so often. janitorial, botanical, 'landscaping' (or an extended haircut if you wish), electrical, plumbing, all manner of repetetive tasks, talking in from the ledge, we do it all....

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Sounds like your plants are going to be fine. With your lighting I don't see tall plants being a problem. Hell, that may even work for you!

You're preaching to the choir on "up and legalize it". Here in US, medical is legal in state, but not federal, some counties say no, some counties want huge grow ops, but the feds say no, in my county no dispenaries are zoned for, if you advertise a delivery service they will bust you, but if you keep your head down it's ok. In Los Angeles, they zoned 200 dispensaries for closure AFTER charging them all a huge fee to be in business...now if they try to enforce the zoning they will get sued. It goes on and on.

Great idea on "hired gun" cannabis services that extend beyond trimming.

same here, wading through cannabis laws has been like sloughing through gray sludge for the last few years. one of the municipalities in our area is facing a class action suit right now because the local police were raiding *anybody with a suspected indoor garden (legal, illegal, cannabis, non-cannabis) and then slapping the homeowners with a not-to-be-sneezed-at 'inspection fee' in the $5k range (as in, making innocent people pay for the service of having their homes turned upside down) (because of course they did *worse things to the people who actually had cannagardens). one ornery survivalist with an indoor veg garden put his foot down, a bunch of folks jumped on the bandwagon, and now the city's up shit creek from what i hear.
the common sense among medigrowers here is to stay definitively on the right side of the rules, err on the safe side, because it's much easier to say, "look, you can see i'm obviously following all the rules now smeg off and bring me a warrant," than to have them come in on reasonable cause, fuck your shit up, revoke your card, and have to spend years fighting it in court. most cardholders/caregivers i know have gone to the police themselves to give them a head's up, and our police here certainly seem to appreciate that. what i want to know is if i can call them if the door comes flying off the hinges and it's *not them. (i also hope to never have to find out. *knocking wood*) (if it happens i'm calling them anyway and fighting all the way down the river to set a precedent that makes them HAVE to protect us) (still *knocking*)

the majority of riu are probably members of that choir, eh ? i just envision a world where growers don't have to be afraid to hire an experienced stranger (off an ad, say, or the phone book) to do the part i glory in. i mean, as far as whoring my canna-knowledge out, i cut my teeth on trimming as most of us did. but i didn't know i was *alive* until i'd leaf-plucked so much i developed an unfamiliar-looking callous on the side of my index finger; or taken apart, bleached, scrubbed, and put back together a barn worth of aeroponics with only the cd in my discman because i forgot to pack any others.... (i'm pretty sure i can still whistle the entire melody of "the four seasons" from memory if i try hard enough...) *roflmao*. and how many of us could have at some point used a hand with something other than trimming and still had to slug it ourselves because the available help was lacking in either skill or trustworthiness?

speaking of which... our girls finally had to come home a couple days ago. most of them are as tall as i am; we have our work cut out for us....

Kitty,

Sounds like the Gestapo is alive and well there, as well. The police here do a little thing where they sieze your gear, but do not charge you. HOWEVER, if you try to get your gear back, they will charge you. Most people are afraid of the fight, so they just go away. I don't blame them.

Colorado seems to have their shit together. They regulate the shit out of the med industry, but everything is out in the open. I can deal with the fees, the fines, the inspections, the code compliance, and the taxing. I can't take the "one day it's ok" and"one day it's not" legal atmosphere that's prevailing here. My lawyer tells me we're legal and cool, yet a med grow like my own got busted and the grower charged last month. They had 600 patients and all the paperwork. Cops entered without a warrant, took all the gear, and arrested the worker. They aren't charging the collective...just the worker. My god. We are living in so much fear. I'm just hanging on, hoping that things will continue to head in the right direction.

collective gardener said:

They aren't charging the collective...just the worker.

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i can *feel helper d's look of alarm....

ok, so *this makes everything a bit more of a pain in the butt.....

We should all sell our houses, pool our cash and move to an island where we can grow together year round and be a cannabis society.

Its such a shame because there's so many things you can learn about life and nature from growing. From the healthiness of your water supply to all the beneficial micro-organisms that make our world go round that non growers know nothing about. The info banks are endless and in any other application the knowledge would be reverred. People can't get past the "generalization" of marijuana and marijuana users. I know its changed my life and I will grow for the rest of it.

Sorry to hijack gardener I was reading yours and kittys convo and felt inspired.

mellokitty said:

i can *feel helper d's look of alarm....

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No worries. Helper D prides himself on his ability to stay medicated beyond any chance of "alarm".

mellokitty said:

View attachment 1480388ok, so *this makes everything a bit more of a pain in the butt.....

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Oh yes. Building the grow during the grow. So much fun. You aren't a grower until you've cleaned sawdust off of 30 plants.