waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Another candidate for the "drawn and quartered" club. Lol! So does it work? Lol, there is potential for this thread to explode once again as so many do!
Trimming fan leaves
- Thread starter Tone5500
- Start date
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
LOL, I didn't want to risk stunting two plants. I had enough issues with this run (the last one indoors for 3.5 months). I'm looking at it this morning and it is really not much bigger at all. Again still a few weeks to go!
Commander Strax
Well-Known Member
In this day and age plants no longer need leaves.....get with it.
Now we will be taking you back to 1981 and the Billboard song of the year "Bette Davis Eyes"
Alaric
Well-Known Member
White flies was a nightmare for me-----had to take my whole show down---get on top of those terrorist now.
Hope u have better luck than I did.
A~~~
?
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
I loved that song lol.
Squidbilly
Well-Known Member
My experience with defoliation is this:
I defoliate throughout my grow, a little bit here, a little bit there. In the early stages of LST I tuck big fan leaves down as far as I can so they aren't blocking light. I even bend large fan leaves stems to get them out of the way. Once I have a little bush with a ton of tucked fan leaves, some of them just have to go. I would like to say by this point I don't really have a choice to do so. If I un tuck the leaves they will completely shade my new branches I worked so hard training to produce.
It's like anything else, there is a time and a place. Do I LST, top, fim, or bend? NO, I do all those things because every empty space in my canopy might require any one to fill, at any particular spot.
I leave on everything I can and take off only what I have to.
I have also had the experience of defoliating causes a growth SPURT. It seams the plants really do use those big fan leaves for something-when I cut them off they seam to go into over drive to produce new growth to compensate for the loss of leaf area.
I couldn't grow plants as big as I do with out defoliating, and that's just the truth-i've tried. My style of creating bushes calls for it.
Sometimes removing a fan leaf will create enough light for a lower branch to finally shoot up. Now instead of a big fan leaf I have a new branch sticking up in my canopy.
If you took two plants, same strain, and let them grow naturally, defoliated one, and left the other one in tact, the OF COURSE the in tact plant would produce more.
When you train your plant the way I do there is a definite benefit to removing fan leaves. There is a time and a place for everything. A lower branch covered by a fan leaf isn't going to make it to the canopy, and your gonna have larf. I'd rather have a cola then a fan leaf any day.
Anyone who says defoliation is counter productive needs to look no further then any orchard/nursery/farm. Training and defoliating are proven ways to increase yeild if you know what your doing and they are implemented correctly.
Look at everyone doing SCROG, they yeild pretty damn good and they do some serious defoliation.
I defoliate throughout my grow, a little bit here, a little bit there. In the early stages of LST I tuck big fan leaves down as far as I can so they aren't blocking light. I even bend large fan leaves stems to get them out of the way. Once I have a little bush with a ton of tucked fan leaves, some of them just have to go. I would like to say by this point I don't really have a choice to do so. If I un tuck the leaves they will completely shade my new branches I worked so hard training to produce.
It's like anything else, there is a time and a place. Do I LST, top, fim, or bend? NO, I do all those things because every empty space in my canopy might require any one to fill, at any particular spot.
I leave on everything I can and take off only what I have to.
I have also had the experience of defoliating causes a growth SPURT. It seams the plants really do use those big fan leaves for something-when I cut them off they seam to go into over drive to produce new growth to compensate for the loss of leaf area.
I couldn't grow plants as big as I do with out defoliating, and that's just the truth-i've tried. My style of creating bushes calls for it.
Sometimes removing a fan leaf will create enough light for a lower branch to finally shoot up. Now instead of a big fan leaf I have a new branch sticking up in my canopy.
If you took two plants, same strain, and let them grow naturally, defoliated one, and left the other one in tact, the OF COURSE the in tact plant would produce more.
When you train your plant the way I do there is a definite benefit to removing fan leaves. There is a time and a place for everything. A lower branch covered by a fan leaf isn't going to make it to the canopy, and your gonna have larf. I'd rather have a cola then a fan leaf any day.
Anyone who says defoliation is counter productive needs to look no further then any orchard/nursery/farm. Training and defoliating are proven ways to increase yeild if you know what your doing and they are implemented correctly.
Look at everyone doing SCROG, they yeild pretty damn good and they do some serious defoliation.
Squidbilly
Well-Known Member
I'll have to do some research but I'm pretty sure plants have a hormone to sense when an animal or mother nature has 'removed' a leaf. When they sense this they focus their energy on growing more. It's their natural defense, and this makes a lot of sense to me.
This also makes a lot of sense as to why all defoliation should be done in veg! I do believe aggresive defoliation in flower diverts energy from bud production into making more leafs to compensate.
This also makes a lot of sense as to why all defoliation should be done in veg! I do believe aggresive defoliation in flower diverts energy from bud production into making more leafs to compensate.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Actually the growers that do defoliate, recommend doing it at different stages, one being right after stretch in flower.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
If I cut your arm off, do you grow taller? Marijuana IS NOT A VINE, IS NOT A PUMPKIN and IS NOT A WATERMELLON!
They do not "Grow bigger" by cutting them or pruning them, or taking their leaves off... I've done this long enough now to know that defoliation is not conducive to higher yields.
Better lighting is the answer, rather than fan leaf removal that the plant relies on to bring light to the plant.
They do not "Grow bigger" by cutting them or pruning them, or taking their leaves off... I've done this long enough now to know that defoliation is not conducive to higher yields.
Better lighting is the answer, rather than fan leaf removal that the plant relies on to bring light to the plant.
BenFranklin
Well-Known Member
Ohh god! Everytime you crack me up....
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Sorry Ben! Just had
Sorry Ben! Had to try for myself lol. And as said not a true test by any stretch. But the plant is none the worse. Is it better? Hard to say at this point. It sure is a touchy subject though lol. My suggestion to people that are curious is to try it and see for them selves.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
The arm thing would be a drastic experiment to try so I'll just assume that no you wont grow taller lol. Thats kind of a ridiculous analogy though. Its an arm for god sakes not a pot plant. But hey I respect your opinion none the less. I just dont get the passion behind all of this, again its just a plant!!!
a senile fungus
Well-Known Member
My experience with defoliation is that it works if done cautiously and properly. What does that mean? I don't know at all, there's so much disinformation out there that the best bet is to try it out for yourself. There's no set "do it this way for success". AND OBVIOUSLY REMOVING ALL THE GODDAMN LEAVES WILL BE DETRIMENTAL FOR THE PLANT. Everything in moderation, right?
IME, defoliated plants seemed to have larger buds at the bottom of the plant and smaller buds up top, almost like the buds were evenly distributed around the plants. Maybe not yielding more, but full, dense buds located all around the plant.
Plants left alone grew normally obviously.
In strains that i know, defoliated plants seemed to have more leafy matter in the buds themselves, vs their non defoliated sisters. Like the bud leaves got steroided up when I pulled the mature fans off. I never pulled leaves from buds or nodes that were actively growing.
Increase in yield? Potentially, yes. But not guaranteed.
I'm really interested in the leafy buds thing. Anyone else have this experience?
My hypothesis is that with leaves being pulled the plant begin to kick start leaf growth where leaves are left, namely bud leafs etc.
What do you all think?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app
IME, defoliated plants seemed to have larger buds at the bottom of the plant and smaller buds up top, almost like the buds were evenly distributed around the plants. Maybe not yielding more, but full, dense buds located all around the plant.
Plants left alone grew normally obviously.
In strains that i know, defoliated plants seemed to have more leafy matter in the buds themselves, vs their non defoliated sisters. Like the bud leaves got steroided up when I pulled the mature fans off. I never pulled leaves from buds or nodes that were actively growing.
Increase in yield? Potentially, yes. But not guaranteed.
I'm really interested in the leafy buds thing. Anyone else have this experience?
My hypothesis is that with leaves being pulled the plant begin to kick start leaf growth where leaves are left, namely bud leafs etc.
What do you all think?
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Rollitup mobile app
Squidbilly
Well-Known Member
By the time I flip to 12/12 i'm done removing any fan leaves that I'm going to. Maybe defoliation isn't the right word-
In my experience, at least while in veg, removing a fan leaf so a small branch down low can make it's way up to the top is worth it. It's not my light, I use a 600w mh. It's what happens when you train them correctly and remove selectively.
I look at the scrog guys and what they are doing. They remove ALOT of fan leaves and yeild more then most people in the same sized area.
If it's between a new top/cola and a fan leaf, I'll take the new top/cola. I've tried leaving leafs on and taking them off. In early veg when I'm training, removing 1-2 fan leaves has a definite benefit. Combined with some LST, removing a big fan leaf that is shading the lower part of your plant will make those lower branches stretch up to the top. If you want a nice even canopy with multiple tops/colas then I don't see a way around it. In a scrog if I left all my fan leaves on I would run into PM or other issues, the top of my screen would look like a salad.
Farmers have used training techniques and leaf removal for hundreds of years. I don't know a single grower who DOESN'T remove at least a couple over the course of the grow!
In my experience, at least while in veg, removing a fan leaf so a small branch down low can make it's way up to the top is worth it. It's not my light, I use a 600w mh. It's what happens when you train them correctly and remove selectively.
I look at the scrog guys and what they are doing. They remove ALOT of fan leaves and yeild more then most people in the same sized area.
If it's between a new top/cola and a fan leaf, I'll take the new top/cola. I've tried leaving leafs on and taking them off. In early veg when I'm training, removing 1-2 fan leaves has a definite benefit. Combined with some LST, removing a big fan leaf that is shading the lower part of your plant will make those lower branches stretch up to the top. If you want a nice even canopy with multiple tops/colas then I don't see a way around it. In a scrog if I left all my fan leaves on I would run into PM or other issues, the top of my screen would look like a salad.
Farmers have used training techniques and leaf removal for hundreds of years. I don't know a single grower who DOESN'T remove at least a couple over the course of the grow!
Squidbilly
Well-Known Member
That's good to know, I'll have to do a little more research on the topic. Lst and removal of a couple fan leaves in veg has definitely had a benefit for me-with any strain I've grown. It's much easier to create a bush, in a shorter period of time. I've tried my training technique without removing fan leaves and it takes a lot longer for those bottome branches to stretch up to the top when they are completely shaded by fan leaves.
waterdawg
Well-Known Member
Yes do read up on it! There is, i would approximate, a lot more against than for it. But then again they use to burn witches as well....lol.