Trichomes, cloudy=good, amber=shit

Discussion in 'Harvesting And Curing' started by krok, Jan 18, 2011.

  1.  
    krok

    krok Active Member

    I'm trying to harvest an Indica plant (N.L.) at the correct time, I want a couchlock/narcotic high that can put me to sleep.

    I'm starting to believe that harvesting at peak THC (cloudy) is what will give the best effect, and that this will give couch-lock effect if it's an Indica. So no need to wait for 50% amber before harvest. Correct?

    I expect a lot of the cloudy ones to turn amber during curing, and that amber (when harvested) will turn into "shit" (overripe) during the cure.
  2.  
    socaliboy

    socaliboy Active Member

    The longer you leave it the stonier the effect, if you harvest it too early it will be more "uplifting".
  3.  
    resinousflowers

    resinousflowers Well-Known Member

    just harvest when the flowers are ripe.and then youll get the full affect the strain is supposed to give you.if you want a narcotic feeling then you should grow a strain that'll give you that.
    furnz likes this.
  4.  
    suTraGrow

    suTraGrow Well-Known Member

    I think your just being impatience trust me the extra wait always pays off have patience :)
    Darrin661 likes this.
  5.  
    McFonz

    McFonz Well-Known Member

    For a couchlock effect you want 40-50% amber trichs at harvest time with most strains.
  6.  
    Brick Top

    Brick Top New Member

    CBD is what gives a true body stone, a true couch-lock stone. Since CBD has almost been totally bred out of modern strains smokers who like couch-lock have had to resort to giving up THC, throwing away THC, intentionally allowing the level of THC to drop as it oxidizes and become CBN so they can get a fake body stone from it, a false couch-lock stone from it. That is what amber trichomes actually mean. Amber is a sign of oxidized THC, THC that has been lost and transformed into a substance that is only mildly psychoactive.

    Most couch-lock lovers refuse to accept and believe that fact, but nonetheless, it is a fact.



    CANNABIDIOL (CBD)

    [​IMG]



    Cannabidiol is nonpsychoactive and was initially thought to have no effect on the psycho activity of THC. Recent evidence however show that smokers of cannabis are less likely to experience schizophrenia-like symptoms if there is a higher CBD to THC ratio. Experiments show that participants experienced less intense psychotic effects when intravenous THC was co-administered with CBD. It has been hypothesized that CBD acts as an allosteric antagonist at the CB1 receptor and thus alters the psychoactive effects of THC, resulting in a more easily manageable high.

    CBD is generally considered to have more medicinal properties than THC. It appears to relieve convulsion, inflammation (and thereby also migraines), anxiety and nausea. That is why strains with a high concentration of CBD is suitable for medicinal use.

    Although CBD has its own particular medicinal value it is not more important than THC when it comes to treating various afflictions. It is the interaction between the two that gives rise to the effect that sometimes alleviates the symptoms of various medical conditions.

    CBD has a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that its effect is mostly in the body and not so much in the head. CBD shares a precursor with THC and is the main cannabinoid in low-THC cannabis strains like hemp.

    Landrace strains, usually of indica heritage, contain higher concentrations of CBD than recreational drug strains, which are usually bred towards a higher concentration of THC. This is the reason why strains containing high ratios of CBD can be difficult to find.



    TETRAHYDROCANNABINOL (THC)

    [​IMG]



    Tetrahydrocannabinol, also known as delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ9-THC), is the primary psychoactive component found in the cannabis plant. It was first isolated by Raphael Mechoulam, Yechiel Gaoni, and Habib Edery from the Weizmann Institute of Science in Rehovot, Israel, in 1964.

    [​IMG]


    This is the main compound that gives rise to the high that is tightly linked with the cannabis plant. It affects several areas of the brain simultaneously and can therefore give rise to an assortment of experiences, ranging from altered perception of time and the self, to feelings of euphoria and relaxation all through the body.


    Medically, it appears to be analgetic, meaning that it is capable of alleviating even severe pain. It is also known to be neuroprotective, which rules out the possibility of brain damage, which was initially proposed to follow from heavy use of the plant. It has approximately equal affinity for the CB1 and CB2 receptors. By binding to CB1 receptors (the ones in brain) it produces the high that we are so familiar with. That is why the effects of THC is more cerebral, than the effect of CBD, which seems to have a greater affinity for the CB2 receptor.

    CANNABINOL (CBN)

    [​IMG]


    Cannabinol is the primary degradation product of THC and increases in concentration with plant age. The concentration of this product in the bud is heavily dependent on the time of harvest. Harvesting the bud at a late stage also means that the concentration of CBN in relation to THC will be higher when compared to the peak of THC production.

    CBN content increases as THC degrades. It is only mildly psychoactive and can cause "fuzzy head", drowsiness, disorientation and sleepiness in the smoker, properties that can be considered unpleasant in nature compared to the clear high of the THC. Its affinity to the CB2 receptors is higher than for the CB1 receptor, meaning that it mostly affects the body.

    THC BIOSYNTHESIS

    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
    oracle3301, GroErr, warbalig and 18 others like this.
  7.  
    krok

    krok Active Member

    @Brick Top:
    Finally, somebody with a brain :-)
    +rep

    Let the "50% amber at HARVEST"-people smoke their oxidized THC.
    I'll have to search for strains with more CBD.
  8.  
    cmt1984

    cmt1984 Well-Known Member

    thanks bricktop, that was a good read.

    ive harvested at 30% amber like most people say but i didnt like the high as much. i get best results when most trichs are cloudy, i harvest as soon as i see a couple amber.
  9.  
    925Grow'N

    925Grow'N Active Member

    +rep Brick Top! I've read and learned so much from your post. Much appreciated! I dedicate some of my great 1st grow to your info!
  10.  
    Brick Top

    Brick Top New Member


    Goodie gumdrops .... but if you want to make me happy name your first, or next, kid after me.

    Wouldn't it be fun to have a little Brick Top of your own around the house?
  11.  
    Purplekrunchie

    Purplekrunchie Well-Known Member

    I think slightly early harvested smoke is extremely potent and valuable, but most indoor growers try and balance potency and yield. That requires it to be left a bit longer, in most cases. I actually never look at my trichs, I look at the swell, once they do that, I know it's at peak potency, and flavor. But I grow for myself and not selling purposes, so I become the number one customer, and the customer is always right.
    xXOnyxXx and warbalig like this.
  12.  
    Brick Top

    Brick Top New Member

    It is not a case of harvesting early, not even slightly early. It is a case of harvesting when the glandular trichomes will have reached peak levels of THC, so it is harvesting when a plant will be at it's highest potency.




    I think the proper word to you e would have been some rather than; "most" unless you are talking about commercial growers. People I know grow and harvest for potency more than yield. Of course they want enough to keep them supplied but they do that by growing enough plants to cover their needs rather than giving up potency to try to squeeze a few more grams of weaker weed out of each plant.



    Whatever floats your boat .... and if that is slightly more weaker herb than slightly less more potent herb then by all means it is the right thing for you too do.

    But look at it this way. If it takes someone 5 or 6 hits, or maybe more, to get the buzz they want rather than just 2 or 3 hits, even though they may have a slightly larger yield they still may smoke it all up as fast or even faster by needing to smoke more of it at a time and to smoke it more often than if they had more potent pot. If that ends up being the case then where is the actual gain in the slightly increased yield at the cost of potency?

    It sort of reminds me of my early days of toking, back before weighed ounces and dealers sold "lids." A lie of average grade Mexican would cost $10.00 to $15.00. A lid of good Colombian would cost $25.00 to $30.00. One of my friends LOVED to smoke. He loved the actual act of smoking. He did not like really good pot because he wouldn't want to smoke as often and he would rather sit around all day sucking on his bong than to just get high a few times. So he would buy the average grade Mexican and smoke and smoke and smoke and smoke. He would get high enough because in those days average grade Mexican was not the same garbage as came along some years later but the average grade was not so great that he would reach a point where he would say no mas, no mas. He used to tell us how we were wasting our money spending more on good Colombian because he was getting good and high off his less expensive Mexican .... but he would go through enough pot that in a given month he would spend as much or more for pot that even though he smoked it all day it didn't get him as high as toking better quality pot just a few times a day. My lids would last and last and last and I was almost always high in those days.

    Even though the real reason he did it was because he just loved the physical act of smoking it is still an example, admittedly an extreme one, of lesser quality herb not lasting as long as higher potency pot.

    I have had pot that was a true one hit wonder, the type of potency where if you did two hits, a little while after the second hit you would be thinking, man, I really didn't need that second hit, I think I'm going to go to bed and try to go to sleep because I'm too high. It doesn't take a large yield with potency like that to last a very long time. True it is not always easy to achieve that, but the principal remains the same. Higher potency means you smoke less at a time and you smoke less often so it lasts a very long time.

    Isn't that what every grower, other than a commercial grower, should be trying their best to achieve?

    What would be the logic behind picking a strain that has a very high THC percentage and then intentionally throwing away, intentionally giving up some of the potency so in the end you just have slightly more of what would be equal to the quality/potency of lesser genetics? Maybe to some the logic is with a high enough level of THC they can afford to intentionally lose some, to throw some of it away to get a slightly higher yield ... but too me that is still illogical.

    If someone is going to do that it would make more sense to me to pick a strain like Big Bud or maybe Critical Mass, strains known for massive yields, and harvest it when it is at peak potency and still end up with even higher yields of a pot rather than growing a strain that does not yield as much and growing it beyond peak potency and ending up with much less of something that will only be slightly more potent. If yield is of such importance that someone will willingly give up potency for a slightly higher yield why not go whole hog and go for massive yields?

    Some might say that goes beyond the idea of trying to "balance potency and yield," but if they are willing to drag their potency level down to what would be equal to lesser genetics when harvested at the optimal time for peak potency, just for a slightly higher yield, then for a much, much larger yield it would make more sense to pick strains that if harvested when at peak potency levels would at least be close to the same. For that large of an increase in yield, since yield is so important, the slight additional difference in potency would have to be worth the trade off to get the much larger yield.

    But I guess it is a case of to each their own ... and everyone has their own priorities and everyone finds what they perceive as being a value in different things.
  13.  
    Purplekrunchie

    Purplekrunchie Well-Known Member

    Well that's basically my point, I harvest at peak potency so I have 1 hit smoke, not when the trichs have broken down to shit. That may have at times cost me some yield, but as you said, if I need less, than it's all same same anyways. When it swells and turns color it is indeed at peak, leave it longer at that point it slowly goes the other way. And like I said before, I am my only customer, and I am looking for 2 things, potency and flavor, and I achieve that with flying colors, and have never looked at a trich with a microscope.

    And yes I did err when I said most indoor growers, because most are probably like me, and want the best quality, and don't care about money. But even myself, I try to get as much as I can naturally, and still try and stay within my happy potency window. And after so long, you just kind of know it's arrived, kind of how a farmer rips open an ear of corn and knows.
  14.  
    Brick Top

    Brick Top New Member


    Sorry if I misunderstood you but when you said;
    That gave me the impression that if you do not look at your trichomes and if you grow a bit longer, which sounded to me like longer than what I had described, that you grow past peak potency in favor of a slight increase in yield.

    I never advocate harvesting early, but when plants reach peak THC levels is considered early in the opinions of many who do not understand trichomes/cannabinoids. What they consider to be the optimal time to harvest is actually harvesting late and I misunderstood what you wrote and to me it sounded too me like you harvest late.

    Sorry, my error.

    Oh .. one other thing.

    In a few more months I will have grown for 39 years and even after that many years, almost four decades worth, I cannot harvest by appearance anywhere near as well as I can by trichome color. You must be damn good if you can.
  15.  
    Purplekrunchie

    Purplekrunchie Well-Known Member

    Oh yeah, well I was saying most growers, which was wrong to say. But when I say most, I'm not talking about myself, because I am always different, which isn't necessarily always a good thing lolz.

    And I don't think it's that I'm so good, I think there is enough margin for error, and I always err on the too soon side, because I have always been scared of seeing a bud with calyxes exploded and dry. Which it's very hard to be that late, but that's the nightmare that nips at my heels. Once my hairs have turned, and the bud has puffed, and it has that certain shade. But with that being said, there is an absolute minimum time wise, and that is 50 days, I actually had an unknown Jamaican strain years ago that was ripe in 50 days almost like clockwork.
  16.  
    Brick Top

    Brick Top New Member


    There are rare cases where harvesting by site/appearance it really tough and it is easy to make an error. Not many strains, but a few, Sagarmatha's Mantanuska Tundra is one, where the pistils will still be mostly to all white when the plant is fully ripe and ready for harvest. With a strain like that if someone waits for the pistils to turn color and recede they will grow it way past peak potency. It is the few strains like that, that prove there is not really a true natural connection between pistil color and ripeness. The reason there appears to be a real connection between pistil color and ripeness is because so many strains are so very similar in their basic makeup that most will react pretty much the same, but not all and back when landraces were all people had to grow you saw things you seldom if ever see now.

    Some stains would never have trichomes that were a colorless-clear and instead began as a clear-yellow or a clear-amber and some would not change color, all they would do is turn cloudy, so in those if you were going by trichome color you just watched for a certain percentage of cloudy trichomes for the sign of when to harvest. And then in the case of a pure sativa, or some that are nearly pure, like 90% sativa, they reach peak THC levels before any trichome clouding begins .. so in those you would wait until you saw around 5% to 10% cloudy trichomes and the rest clear and that would be the time to harvest .... and it would not be harvesting early ... it would be harvesting with THC levels have peaked. In those seeing cloudy is like seeing amber in other strains, a sign that THC has begun to oxidize and is being lost.

    Some things about growing have a singular answer to them, a single way of doing it right, an across the board correct way to do things, but in some aspects of growing there is no single across the board how to do it answer because some strains just do not do/show the same things and if they do they do not do/show them at the same times so going by them makes mistakes easy to make.
  17.  
    tingpoon

    tingpoon Well-Known Member

    [​IMG]if you want a heavier stone, wait for the amber color. it doesnt mean that its 'sh!t' though
  18.  
    Serapis

    Serapis Well-Known Member

    Not if all he does is copy and paste huge amounts of data in the middle of an obscure thread....

    Why not start a thread and post it at the top, and give credit to sources, which ya never do.

    THC and CBD are both Marijuana compounds that are important to the high. White Widow is high in THC, while New York City Diesel is high in CBD's. Both are considered strong strains, two very different highs. THC alone gives a very stimulated high. CBD's, while not mind altering like THC, regulate how our body interacts with THC that we consume. A plant with more CBD's is less likely to cause panic, anxiety or paranoia.

    For a good long look at CBD's and their relationship to THC, look here.... http://ukcia.org/wordpress/?p=50

    CBDs aren't bad as some would have you believe.
  19.  
    CoralGrower

    CoralGrower Active Member



    That's a great way to look at it.



    Amber = shit..........I guess that makes me a shithead.
  20.  
    krok

    krok Active Member

    When I started the thread, I believed everybody cured their harvest, but based on the replies I guess most people don't cure at all.

Share This Page