Trichomes, cloudy=good, amber=shit

Brick Top · Jan 20, 2011

Serapis said:
Not if all he does is copy and paste huge amounts of data in the middle of an obscure thread...

.

I suppose you would prefer him to write three line messages that are inaccurate opinions that he heard/read from someone else and the parroted like most people here do.

Why not start a thread and post it at the top, and give credit to sources, which ya never do.

When I C&P something I never attempt to lay claim to it being my work and as long as it is accurate, which it is, and that of course is the most important part, and while it it not all that often I will from time to time include a link to what I post ... but then much of it is information that I have copied and saved and did not save the site. Much of the things I post are saved on disc or to Word because the topics come up so often I can just open a file or pop in a disc and there it is.

THC and CBD are both Marijuana compounds that are important to the high. White Widow is high in THC, while New York City Diesel is high in CBD's. Both are considered strong strains, two very different highs. THC alone gives a very stimulated high. CBD's, while not mind altering like THC, regulate how our body interacts with THC that we consume. A plant with more CBD's is less likely to cause panic, anxiety or paranoia.

Why don't you attempt to tell me something I do not already know ... that is if you can find something I do not already know.

CBDs aren't bad as some would have you believe.

I am not sure who believes CBDs are bad, that is unless you define someone saying they are bad as in someone having a personal preference for low CBD strains. But that wouldn't be saying they are bad, it would only be saying the person prefers a high that comes with a lower CBD percentage.

I have preached for ages that if someone wants or needs a body stone, a couch-lock stone to find strains that are higher in CBD rather than picking strains that are high in THC and growing them too long and end up with amber trichomes that is a sign of THC having oxidized and turned into CBN and from it get a fake body stone, a fake couch-lock stone.

I have said many times that some growers will make terrible choices for the genetics they pick and go for the highest THC strain they can find, which means it will be very low in CBD, which gives a true body stone, and then attempt to play alchemist and attempt by growing it too long, past it's peak potency, to transform the genetics into something they never were and never will be.

925Grow'N · Jan 20, 2011

Ha, who knows in the future. If the name "Brick Top" will incourage the characteristics and behavior of the character in Snatch....I might have to pass! :-P

Thanks again for the knowledge!

Pipe Dream · Jan 20, 2011

Serapis said:
Not if all he does is copy and paste huge amounts of data in the middle of an obscure thread....

Why not start a thread and post it at the top, and give credit to sources, which ya never do.

THC and CBD are both Marijuana compounds that are important to the high. White Widow is high in THC, while New York City Diesel is high in CBD's. Both are considered strong strains, two very different highs. THC alone gives a very stimulated high. CBD's, while not mind altering like THC, regulate how our body interacts with THC that we consume. A plant with more CBD's is less likely to cause panic, anxiety or paranoia.

For a good long look at CBD's and their relationship to THC, look here.... http://ukcia.org/wordpress/?p=50

CBDs aren't bad as some would have you believe.

I think your missing the point. CBD and CBN are 2 different things apparently. The OP found it to be a great answer to his ? so leave it at that.

rockbud · Jan 21, 2011

Brick Top said:
Goodie gumdrops .... but if you want to make me happy name your first, or next, kid after me.

Wouldn't it be fun to have a little Brick Top of your own around the house?

hahhaha!!thanks for the info also..gonna pull mine sunday!

Hogg · Jan 21, 2011

Agree with BrickTop's assesment about trichs...Most on this site will baaa..baaa...just like sheep repeating the Amber trichomes mantra...most dont know anything other than what they regurgitate from others.. Mostly amber trichs will egt you "dumb" weed with that messed up feeling not a good "High" feeling

Serapis · Jan 21, 2011

Hogg said:
Agree with BrickTop's assesment about trichs...Most on this site will baaa..baaa...just like sheep repeating the Amber trichomes mantra...most dont know anything other than what they regurgitate from others.. Mostly amber trichs will egt you "dumb" weed with that messed up feeling not a good "High" feeling

And that would be your personal opinion.... I haven't seen ANY one suggest harvesting only when most of the trichomes are amber, that is ridiculous. 10-15% amber is ideal... by then, the trichomes have reached mass resin production and are ripe for plucking.

Brick Top · Jan 21, 2011

Serapis said:
I haven't seen ANY one suggest harvesting only when most of the trichomes are amber, that is ridiculous.

Not in this thread but remember not everyone who reads a thread joins in and this site has MANY growers who will say that 50% or more amber is he way to go. So when I say something I tend to not only reply to what has been said to that point in the thread but what also fits the topic in general and also in regards to what is likely to be said by someone else later on in a thread.

10-15% amber is ideal... by then, the trichomes have reached mass resin production and are ripe for plucking.

For one it is largely strain dependent and second, we are back to the point of maximum potency versus higher yield or maximum resin production. If it of value to have more resin that is less potent? In most strains 5% to 10% amber is the most someone would ever want IF they still want to retain maximum potency. If slightly more resin that is not as potent and slightly more yield is what someone wants and prefers then by all means continue to grow past the point of peak potency. It is all up to each individual and what their priorities are and what they like and prefer more.

In the case of a pure sativa, or crosses that are mostly sativa, like 90% sativa, they reach maximum levels of THC when the trichomes are still clear. In cases like that someone would wait to see between 5% and 10% cloudy/milky trichomes and then harvest if they want maximum potency.

Then there are rare cases where trichomes will not begin as a colorless-clear and instead begin as a clear-yellow and even a clear-amber. In cases like that you cannot rely on color change because there may not be any. How would you know when to harvest by percentage of amber if the trichomes start out as amber, as can happen in rare cases?

When those rare occurrences do occur you can only go by clouding ... and when 5% to 10% of whatever the original trichome color turns cloudy, that would be when to harvest to have maximum potency.

925Grow'N · Jan 21, 2011

Hey Bricktop, what do you think of these trichomes if you wouldn't mind? Day 54 of flower. Casey Jones strain.

Brick Top · Jan 22, 2011

925Grow'N said:
Hey Bricktop, what do you think of these trichomes if you wouldn't mind? Day 54 of flower. Casey Jones strain.

View attachment 1395480 View attachment 1395479 View attachment 1395478 View attachment 1395477 View attachment 1395476 View attachment 1395475

While the pictures were pretty clear it is impossible to tell what most of the trichomes on the plants are like, but going by what I could see I would say it looks good and you are getting close. I could only make out one amber colored trichome in the pictures but it shouldn't take long for a small handful more to show up and when they do, and you are around 5% to 10% amber I would chop if they were mine.

If it is the Casey Jones I have read about the breeder is sort of vague on flowering time saying 63 days but then also saying 8 to 10 weeks, and if going by the 8 weeks you would be only two days away from the earliest the breeder said it will finish. If the rest of the trichomes are like what I could see, as I said, you are getting close.

Something I am a bit curious about is do you know what the humidity level has been, on average, during flower?

If it is the Casey Jones I have read about it is an interesting sounding strain.

Casey Jones »»» Oriental Express x ECSD v3
Oriental Express
- »»» Trainwreck x Thailand
- Trainwreck
  - USA »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid
- Thailand »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid
ECSD v3 IBL
- Sour Diesel
  - »»» Original Diesel x DNL
  - Original Diesel
    - »»» Chemdawg x {MassSuperSkunk x SensiNL}
    - MassSuperSkunk x SensiNL
      - MassSuperSkunk
        
        Unknown Hybrid »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid
      - SensiNL
        
        Northern Lights #1 IBL
        
        Afghanistan »»» Indica
    - Chemdawg
      - Unknown Indica »»» Indica
  - DNL
    - »»» {RFK Skunk x Hawaiian} x Northern Lights
    - RFK Skunk x Hawaiian
      - RFK Skunk
        
        Unknown Skunk
        
        Skunk #1
        
        »»» Afghanistan x Mexico x Colombia
        
        Afghanistan »»» Indica
        
        Mexico »»» Sativa
        
        Colombia »»» Sativa
      - Hawaiian »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid
    - Northern Lights

rockbud · Jan 22, 2011

925Grow'N said:
Hey Bricktop, what do you think of these trichomes if you wouldn't mind? Day 54 of flower. Casey Jones strain.

View attachment 1395480 View attachment 1395479 View attachment 1395478 View attachment 1395477 View attachment 1395476 View attachment 1395475

i need to get a better mag loupe..my 30x doesnt show tris like that..much easier to see with what u have?

GutterGravy · Jan 22, 2011

Hey i have a question for Brick Top, i'm about 7 weeks into a 300w Greenhouse Big Bang grow. In the GHS video Arjan says it can be ready at 8 weeks but can go to 10weeks for "a different array of cannabinoids"(CBD, CBN). MY question is, being that its heritage is Northern Lights x Skunk #1 x el nino, if i harvest this around 8.5-9 weeks and the tric's are 95% cloudy, will it only be a THC driven high OR will there be enough CBD naturally from its genes to deliver the body high associated with this strain. Thank you!

925Grow'N · Jan 23, 2011

Brick Top said:
While the pictures were pretty clear it is impossible to tell what most of the trichomes on the plants are like, but going by what I could see I would say it looks good and you are getting close. I could only make out one amber colored trichome in the pictures but it shouldn't take long for a small handful more to show up and when they do, and you are around 5% to 10% amber I would chop if they were mine.

If it is the Casey Jones I have read about the breeder is sort of vague on flowering time saying 63 days but then also saying 8 to 10 weeks, and if going by the 8 weeks you would be only two days away from the earliest the breeder said it will finish. If the rest of the trichomes are like what I could see, as I said, you are getting close.

Something I am a bit curious about is do you know what the humidity level has been, on average, during flower?

If it is the Casey Jones I have read about it is an interesting sounding strain.

Casey Jones »»» Oriental Express x ECSD v3

Oriental Express

»»» Trainwreck x Thailand

Trainwreck

USA »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

Thailand »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

ECSD v3 IBL

Sour Diesel

»»» Original Diesel x DNL

Original Diesel

»»» Chemdawg x {MassSuperSkunk x SensiNL}

MassSuperSkunk x SensiNL

MassSuperSkunk

Unknown Hybrid »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

SensiNL

Northern Lights #1 IBL

Afghanistan »»» Indica

Chemdawg

Unknown Indica »»» Indica

DNL

»»» {RFK Skunk x Hawaiian} x Northern Lights

RFK Skunk x Hawaiian

RFK Skunk

Unknown Skunk

Skunk #1

»»» Afghanistan x Mexico x Colombia

Afghanistan »»» Indica

Mexico »»» Sativa

Colombia »»» Sativa

Hawaiian »»» Indica/Sativa Hybrid

Northern Lights

I salute you Brick Top! Your threads have helped me sooooooooooo much! I've learned something new every time!

I've had my humidy at 45-47%, temp. at 74-76 degrees F. I took some more pics today and just like you said, "a handful will appear." before I even logged on today! I can see a lot of the trichomes filling up getting milky. I cut the smallest one down on day 56, and I will be cutting the next one down on 58, then the last 2 around day 60 unless I see too many amber trichs. This is for learning purposes.

I wanted to ask, I also have a Grand Daddy Purple and I swear I'm seeing trichomes turning purple, not amber. Is that something strain related? I was really surprised to see them.

I got the usb magnifying scope at Toys R' Us for $29.99 in science kit isle.

Brick Top · Jan 23, 2011

GutterGravy said:
Hey i have a question for Brick Top, i'm about 7 weeks into a 300w Greenhouse Big Bang grow. In the GHS video Arjan says it can be ready at 8 weeks but can go to 10weeks for "a different array of cannabinoids"(CBD, CBN). MY question is, being that its heritage is Northern Lights x Skunk #1 x el nino, if i harvest this around 8.5-9 weeks and the tric's are 95% cloudy, will it only be a THC driven high OR will there be enough CBD naturally from its genes to deliver the body high associated with this strain. Thank you!

If you harvest when no more than 5% to 10% of trichomes are amber you will be harvesting when THC is at peak levels. That will give you as much of a head high as the genetics can give you, but waiting longer and allowing more amber trichomes will not increase levels of CBD, it will only cause/allow THC to oxidize and transform into increased levels of CBN. The combination gives a fake couch-lock body stone feeling. With less potency due to less THC and increased levels of CBN, that causes a fuzzy head, confused, disoriented, drowsy, sleepy feeling. Many growers wrongly confuse that for being more potent and higher in CBD and more of a real couch-lock body stone, when it really is none of those things.

Your CBD levels will be what the strains genetics, along with growing conditions and environment, will allow them to be, but the CBD level will not be lower due to harvesting at peak potency. If the CBD levels are not enough for your tastes then you need to find a strain or strains that are higher in CBD, which is difficult to do since breeders breeding for recreational strains and Mr. Toad's Wild Ride have all but bred CBD out of most modern crosses. The higher the THC percentage the lower the CBD percentage will be and all the CBN in the world will not provide the medicinal properties of CBD. It may be enough for all the Beavis and Buttheads to to be able to sit on a couch for hours on end watching music videos or the weather channel while eating gas station burritos and downing Big Gulps and actually enjoy being bored beyond belief, but for anyone who wants and or need CBD for medicinal reasons CBN will never cut it for them.

Additional:

Juiced Marijuana Offered to Medical Users as Alternative to Smoking
June 15, 2010

A California physician is offering his medical-marijuana patients a liquefied version of the drug that he says won't produce much of a buzz but does contain chemicals helpful in treating a variety of illnesses, the Washington Post reported June 1
.
Willets, Calif., physician William Courtney, M.D., said that marijuana with high levels of cannabidiol (CBD) seems to have the most medical potential; ironically, CBD levels seem to be lowest in marijuana strains of the plant that are highest in THC -- the main psychoactive substance in marijuana.

"What has happened is, almost all strains available in America through the black market are THC concentrates," said Ethan Russo, senior medical adviser to GW Pharmaceuticals, which is developing the marijuana-based pain medication Sativex. "The CBD in almost all cases has been bred out. The reason is cannabis in this country has been cultivated for its intoxicating effect."

Why Modern Medical Cannabis Strains have Minimal CBD

Sam the Skunkman says that nearly all modern cannabis is pretty much CBD-free or the levels are so low as to be miniscule, landrace indicas are the way to go.

Right now there's simply no strains available where cbd will make up more than 2% of the overall cannabinoids (.5% of the flower weight) and no way of cultivating a noticeably higher cbd content. For the most part conversion of cbg into cbd is controlled by a single gene (Bd) which is codominant with the gene that converts cbg into thc. For example a plant that inherits a Bd gene from one parent and a Bt gene from the other will have roughly equal content of Cbd and Thc. However, if the plant is homozygous for Bd it will have very little thc and if its homozygous for Bt it will have very little Cbd.

While it is true that afghani landraces can have a high cbd content. Since having a Bd gene will replace half of the thc content with cbd seed companies always remove the Bd allele from the gene pool in order to maximize thc potency and stay competitive.

High CBD medicinal strains are being developed, but you will notice that they are all low in THC percentages. You have to pick between one or the other. You just cannot have both.

The Blue-Ribbon Plant

The plant richest in CBD is a “True Blueberry/OG Kush” cross grown in the mountains south of Yreka by Wendell Lee of Full Spectrum Genetics (not to be confused with the lab in Colorado). Dried buds of TB/OGK have been sent for testing on four occasions by Harborside, the dispensary with which Lee is associated.

Samples were consistently found to contain about 10% CBD (with THC levels around 6 to 7%). On the only occasion that a crop grown outdoors by Lee was tested by Steep Hill lab, it was found to contain 13.9% CBD.

Two other labs have confirmed the CBD content of Lee’s TB/OGK.

Lee is now working to “stabilize the genetics” and produce TB/OGK seeds. Several plants he provided to Project CBD (a nonprofit organized by writer/activist Martin Lee to promote research) are being grown out by experienced hands. Processed medicine and clones will be available at dispensaries in the months ahead. Details will be available on ProjectCBD.com, a website that will be launched by mid-August, according to Martin Lee (no relation to Wendell)

The California strain richest in CBD proportionally, “Women’s Collective Stinky Purple,” tested at 9.7% CBD and 1.2% THC. It was brought to Harborside by Grower #1 who also grows a strain called “Cotton Candy/Diesel” that was found to contain about 6% CBD and 6% THC. Grower #1 gets her starter plants from friends in Northeastern Mendocino County. Is there something in the genome of plants that have been swapped over the years by growers in those hills that encourages expression of CBD?

Another strain containing more than 8% CBD, grown indoors in the East Bay, was brought to Harborside in late April. “Omrita Rx3” is the name the grower has given it after learning that it was of special interest to SCC doctors.

A few weeks later a strain called “Harlequin” was found to contain about 8% CBD. And soon thereafter a pound of “Jamaican Lion” tested at 8.9% CBD. Clones of these strains are being grown out and will be available through Harborside and Project CBD in the months ahead, along with the Soma A+ that was first to be identified.

Pineapple Thai (5% CBD, 2.4% THC) is being grown out by Herbal Solutions in Long Beach.

GutterGravy · Jan 23, 2011

Thank you very much Brick Top. I will harvest at 95% cloudy then as i believe the Big Bang can have around 15% THC and 1.5% CBD naturally. Do the tric's continue to oxidize during the drying/curing process?

Brick Top · Jan 23, 2011

GutterGravy said:
Do the tric's continue to oxidize during the drying/curing process?

Yes, but only to a degree and they will do so more or less due to conditions, light, heat etc. will continue the advancement of the breaking down of THC and other cannabinoids so it is important to dry and cure under as optimal of conditions as possible. The more optimal the conditions, the less breakdown will occur, the less optimal the conditions, the more the breakdown will occur.

GutterGravy · Jan 23, 2011

gotcha! thank you very much

Shmulster · Jan 23, 2011

wow... so much important information in one post... if you could change the title somehow this should be a sticky in my opnion... defintely reconsidering my harvest time....

GutterGravy · Jan 24, 2011

Shmulster said:
wow... so much important information in one post... if you could change the title somehow this should be a sticky in my opnion... defintely reconsidering my harvest time....

yeah i agree..i feel like its pounded into our brains from being on the forums that we want 50/50 cloudy/amber but what i've learned thanks to BrickTop has been an eye opener

rockbud · Jan 24, 2011

GutterGravy said:
yeah i agree..i feel like its pounded into our brains from being on the forums that we want 50/50 cloudy/amber but what i've learned thanks to BrickTop has been an eye opener

yea +++reps to bricktop.. i agree its been pounded into our heads..50/50 but im changing my harvest times also!

Brick Top · Jan 24, 2011

GutterGravy said:
i feel like its pounded into our brains from being on the forums that we want 50/50 cloudy/amber

Propaganda is a powerful tool. Dr. Paul Joseph Goebbels taught Adolph Hitler than if you tell a lie enough times it eventually becomes the truth, and the bigger the lie the more believable it will be.

That is how 50/50 cloudy/amber became seen as being a fact. It was repeated enough times that it took on an air of being factual.

It is like in the movie "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" Jimmy Stewart's character told the true story about the shooting of Liberty Valance and the newspaper editor crumpled up his notes and threw them into a wood burning stove. Jimmy Stewart's character asked; "You're not going to use the story, Mr. Scott?" and the editor's reply was; "No, sir. This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend."

50/50 cloudy/amber is the legend that has become fact to many growers.

Trichomes, cloudy=good, amber=shit

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