The99declaration.org
- Thread starter Carne Seca
- Start date
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
On the wikipedia page which states their causes.
"Causes Wealth inequality, Corporate influence of government, Populism, (in support of) Social Democracy, inter alia."
"Social democracy advocates the creation of legal reforms and economic redistribution programs to eliminate economic class disparities between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat.[4] It advocates the development of an economic democracy and the development of cooperative business organizations as an alternative to private enterprise."
So pretty much a mix of communism and fascism.
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
So you think the stop of corporations subverting our democracy is the act of a fascist? I'm not sure you understand what the word fascist means.
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
When the government steps in after corporations are disbanded and it does, "the creation of legal reforms and economic redistribution programs to eliminate economic class disparities between the bourgeoisie and the proletariat," that's fascism. As opposed to government owning all business outright, communism.
People still have the delusion of owning their business in fascism, but there are so many regulations, you don't really have property rights.
That's what occupy want. Not only do they want to eliminate corporate personhood, but they want to give government the power to completely take over what they think is only morality duty, but is in fact government slavery.
deprave
New Member
Dude this isn't fascism, you throw that word around worse then an obama zombie, nor is it communism, it is not even on that same level. It is simply the difference between an American direct democracy(what this is proposing, citizen representatives) and a American representative democracy(what we have now).
Your really looking at this like its on the level that it changes our society completely or even slightly, when it really does niether. It simply just proposes changes to current laws..This changes nothing philosophically nor does it even reform anything at all..The fucking 99% should just run for congress and join in with the do-nothings...its like trying to put out forest fires by pissing out helicopter doors. Some good ideas with good intentions, 18 of these should definitely be done, but they don't solve the problems indefinitely.
Your really looking at this like its on the level that it changes our society completely or even slightly, when it really does niether. It simply just proposes changes to current laws..This changes nothing philosophically nor does it even reform anything at all..The fucking 99% should just run for congress and join in with the do-nothings...its like trying to put out forest fires by pissing out helicopter doors. Some good ideas with good intentions, 18 of these should definitely be done, but they don't solve the problems indefinitely.
Canna Sylvan
Well-Known Member
Deprave,
I said what occupy WANT is fascism with a bit of communism cherry on top. I said over and over the occupy cause. This document is nothing more than a fluffer for the ultimate money shot. The only way their demands can be met is by a fascism government and mix in some elements of communism so they don't appear as nazi like.
This is how it'd go down. There'd have to first be a declaration of martial law. All the corporations would be confiscated by the government. The government would then divvy them up to individuals like they demand. But that still wouldn't be good enough. The 99 would still yell greed and unfair, so the government would step in as the morality police. Then and only then would the occupy stop.
Look up these causes:
Wealth inequality, Corporate influence of government, Populism, (in support of) Social Democracy, inter alia.
Those aren't capitalist, freedom or individualism at all. Not compatible with a libertarian, left leaning or not.
If the occupy has all their demands met, believe me you wouldn't like it. I doubt even half the occupy realize the consequences of their utopia.
You think regular Germans wanted what ended up Nazi occupied Germany? It happened because the people demanded a revolution and didn't want the effort of doing it on their own. The German people were fed up with their lot in life and for a fix now. They got more than they bargained for. It started out fine but soon went out of control.
That's what the occupy are like. They have no idea what they really want. All they know is they want it real bad. All they need is a charismatic leader to fool them, just like Hitler. These occupy are dangerous. They may seem like innocent drummers and singers, but that can all change when they get fed up enough about nothing happening.
How is that document not demanding reform? You think corporations will like having individual real person responsibility? Changing the way we elect representatives would require a constitutional amendment. The occupy are a want it now, they will not wait. The ending of the Federal Reserve won't be easy either. All those would take a generation or more to do. The only solution is a revolution. The puppet masters behind the occupy know this and that's what they want.
I said what occupy WANT is fascism with a bit of communism cherry on top. I said over and over the occupy cause. This document is nothing more than a fluffer for the ultimate money shot. The only way their demands can be met is by a fascism government and mix in some elements of communism so they don't appear as nazi like.
This is how it'd go down. There'd have to first be a declaration of martial law. All the corporations would be confiscated by the government. The government would then divvy them up to individuals like they demand. But that still wouldn't be good enough. The 99 would still yell greed and unfair, so the government would step in as the morality police. Then and only then would the occupy stop.
Look up these causes:
Wealth inequality, Corporate influence of government, Populism, (in support of) Social Democracy, inter alia.
Those aren't capitalist, freedom or individualism at all. Not compatible with a libertarian, left leaning or not.
If the occupy has all their demands met, believe me you wouldn't like it. I doubt even half the occupy realize the consequences of their utopia.
You think regular Germans wanted what ended up Nazi occupied Germany? It happened because the people demanded a revolution and didn't want the effort of doing it on their own. The German people were fed up with their lot in life and for a fix now. They got more than they bargained for. It started out fine but soon went out of control.
That's what the occupy are like. They have no idea what they really want. All they know is they want it real bad. All they need is a charismatic leader to fool them, just like Hitler. These occupy are dangerous. They may seem like innocent drummers and singers, but that can all change when they get fed up enough about nothing happening.
How is that document not demanding reform? You think corporations will like having individual real person responsibility? Changing the way we elect representatives would require a constitutional amendment. The occupy are a want it now, they will not wait. The ending of the Federal Reserve won't be easy either. All those would take a generation or more to do. The only solution is a revolution. The puppet masters behind the occupy know this and that's what they want.
deprave
New Member
Sure but that all depends on your premise that this is "just a fluffer" ...I know about the communist revolutions and your right, ultimately this could lead to something like that and it is scary...communism kills you know..I don't really see how this is fascism still...this is better compared to Russia then Germany. Their idealized utopia sure it could be seen that way but a lot of these are pretty specific..
Lets' take repeal SuperPacs and Glass Steagle...those are pretty specific demands that wouldn't result in some sort of revolution...I don't know again I just breezed over it and didn't put much thought into it but I would say I have to agree for the most part with 18 of 22 of these demands and I don't see them as that Revolutionary or Communist, and definitely not fascist.
Perhaps your looking into this too deep, perhaps I am not looking deep enough, but I see a lot of these ideas are very specific and they are issues I agree with.
Regarding your libertarian comment, A lot of these ideas are very libertarian actually, left libertarian in particular. This is essentially an attack by the people on the private sector and also the government so I don't see how you can see this as non-libertarian. If anything I would label it libertarian socialism.....so far left libertarianism. It is like Chomskianism...
I'm sure Dan Can appreciate that
[video=youtube;PQhEBCWMe44]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhEBCWMe44&feature=fvst[/video]
Lets' take repeal SuperPacs and Glass Steagle...those are pretty specific demands that wouldn't result in some sort of revolution...I don't know again I just breezed over it and didn't put much thought into it but I would say I have to agree for the most part with 18 of 22 of these demands and I don't see them as that Revolutionary or Communist, and definitely not fascist.
Perhaps your looking into this too deep, perhaps I am not looking deep enough, but I see a lot of these ideas are very specific and they are issues I agree with.
Regarding your libertarian comment, A lot of these ideas are very libertarian actually, left libertarian in particular. This is essentially an attack by the people on the private sector and also the government so I don't see how you can see this as non-libertarian. If anything I would label it libertarian socialism.....so far left libertarianism. It is like Chomskianism...
I'm sure Dan Can appreciate that
[video=youtube;PQhEBCWMe44]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQhEBCWMe44&feature=fvst[/video]
deprave
New Member
Besides germany 1940's is not necessarily fascism, If you want the best example of the purest form of fascism you need to look at 1920's Italy..This is where you are becoming confused on this word, because you look to Nazi Germany as an example of what fascism is when its really a pretty bad example.
FilthyFizzle
Active Member
Yup. How can they claim to represent the 99% if I am not in the rich 1% and do not support their message/views? What they should be saying is they are the 23% because no body likes them but themselves
MuyLocoNC
Well-Known Member
You're being EXTREMELY generous. The Occupy crowd is far less than a quarter of one percent of the population of the US. Even that's being generous. While there are certain elements I agree on, this "movement" is comprised ALMOST entirely of liberals and most certainly progressives (which can come from either side of the aisle). It shows in most of their demands and the naivete of it's supporters. The more I hear from them, the more I think Adam Corolla was dead on. First wave of the "participation trophy" generation.
And they can go FUCK themselves on the student loan demand, you took out the loan, you knew the cost, cough it up you over-entitled little douchebag.
FilthyFizzle
Active Member
Yeah I just didn't want to step on anybody's toes lol. Thought I would give them more than they deserve so they don't get pissy and say its 12% not 10% lmfao
I pay my dues why can't they? They shouldn't have gone to college if they couldn't pay for it lol?!?! People going to college just to go these days. They don't even know what they're going for. Diluting what a college graduate should be.
Edit: Damn 0.25% are making the 98.75% look bad
Dan Kone
Well-Known Member
You have quite an imagination there.
Sandbagger
New Member
Call it what you will, but something needs to be done in Washington. The representatives are NOT representing us properly. I am all for a popular vote without representation. Some call it "mob rules", but I don't see anything wrong with that. We the people could actually get some of these big issues behind us. I am against abortion and gay marriage, but if we had a popular vote we could be done with it and everyone would have to live with the outcome win or lose. These politicians get on the "change" soapbox every four years yet no matter who wins nothing ever happens. Except the rich getting richer. It makes me want to puke.