The Best N-P-K

RickWhite said:

No foliar feeding, just regular watering.


I would bet that the new hydro craze is much like our billion dollar health food / supplement industry that is 99% snake oil. Plant health like human health is dependent on sound, basic nutrition.

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Agreed, that's why I'll be trying Jack's Classic soon.

Have a great grow!

YGB

the npk will be different depending on what your growing in. so of course if your doing hydro its going to be high values and if your doing organic stuff it you don't want anything over 10 on the npk scale or it kills off soil microbes. when it comes to fertilizer salts, they are made of the same things so it doesn't really matter what company is making it, some might just release faster than others. In hydro, each strain will handle the ppms different so there is not correct npk ratio for any one plant, you just have to see what it likes and take note of the signs the plant gives. good luck

uncle ben said:

tecniflora has a great recipe for their success.

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thanks u b

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Uncle Ben again.

darn was gonna rep u . if i had half the knowledge you had i would be a master grower

31 usd shipped to the door ( for all of the various stuff i mention ) . its the first nutes i bought ( well Only nutes ) i didnt do enough home work before i decided on what to get and before i knew what to start looking for and inquiring about . i dont want to throw it a way just wanted to know if using that product line would keep it green through out the entire grow . right now all my plants look good slight nute burn on some leaves from mismixing .i worked a double shift and changed the res . lesson learned well stop by my page and take a look at my album if you have time .

Update. Seems the Dyna-Grow Foliage Pro is a bit to high in N for my strain because the leave tips are starting to curl under - I hear too much N does this. I might try the regular grow formula.

RickWhite said:

Update. Seems the Dyna-Grow Pro Foliar is a bit to high in N for my strain because the leave tips are starting to curl under - I hear too much N does this. I might try the regular grow formula.

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It's a salinity issue, not a N issue. Too much of a 10-30-10 will produce the same symptoms.

Your leaf tip curl is a moisture stress issue, it may or may not be related to the salts you're giving it.

Uncle Ben said:

It's a salinity issue, not a N issue. Too much of a 10-30-10 will produce the same symptoms.

Your leaf tip curl is a moisture stress issue, it may or may not be related to the salts you're giving it.

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Thanks - after reading your article I am re-thinking things.

I wonder if very dry conditions can cause this. My plants are in a light soil less medium and require a good soak pretty much daily.

Hopefully soon I will have more biomass and my humidity will increase.

Anyway, I guess I'll stick with the Pro-Foliage for now. What is your take on nutrient concentrations in soil vs hydro? Is it true that hydro solutions should be stronger? It seems half a teaspoon of this stuff is around 780 EC and 1 tsp is around 1500 EC. Hydro solutions typically go up to around 1800. Should I go as high as 1500 which was the concentration I was using with Ionic nutes.

Just remember there's a difference between organic and chemical fertilizers. When I was growing hydro using chemicals, keeping a correct ph and ec was a constant worry, but after switching to organic and soil, I haven't checked ph once. I now use Biosevia from GHE, never had nuteburn once, or any other deficiencies. That said, I'm very curious of a brand called Metrop (Dutch), read up on products... But as DontDoDrugs pointed out, the rest of the stuff is important, make sure they get all the minerals they need! Also, as Uncle Ben says, use your common sense! Watch the plants, concentrate on their health, and wait with bloom food until they are actually flowering. Keep in mind that different strains often have different needs, the more sativa, the more careful on the dosage, as a rule of thumb.

RickWhite said:

Anyway, I guess I'll stick with the Pro-Foliage for now. What is your take on nutrient concentrations in soil vs hydro? Is it true that hydro solutions should be stronger?

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Depends on whether or not there is a short or long term nutrient charge in soil, but, most of the hydro gardens I see are stressed out because the ppm is too high relative to plant requirements.

Don't Ionic nutes have a much higher K to N ratio?

Ionic Grow = 3-1-5

Bloom = 3-2-6

I think I will start light and just allow the solution to increase concentration via water use until I find the right spot. I know the Ionic did well with an EC on the lower side (around 1500) so we will see. Above 2000 and they showed stress.

I think as a rule of thumb however, an ebb and flow with Hydroton pellets should allow a more concentrated solution because there shouldn't be any salt build up. It makes sense that most water holding mediums will build salts as they dry. The ebb and flow can't really do that too much.

RickWhite said:

Ionic Grow = 3-1-5

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I've asked this question a million times with no "because" response, why is the typical cannabis specific "Grow" fertilizer always higher in K than N? They have it reversed, should be a 5-1-3 for good foliage production.

If hydroton is a porous clay material which I believe it is, it will retain precipitates over time.

UB

I like 6-4-5 for veg then for the first 3 weeks of flower 6-10-8. I then finish with 6-8-10. I run my PH at 6.0 for veg and 6.3 for flower with my growing mediums 6.5. I like the canna terra profesional plus with DIRTY WORM nutes but I'm having killer success with the new DIRTY WORM PRO medium. I'm still in the learning curve with the DIRTY WORM medium and nutes but the products are very affordable and easy to use and 100% organic.

getting too many values, worth trying out ,,,anyone have pics for their ratios they use?..would be helpful

Update:

Got the Super lemon Haze in the Ebb & Grow using the Foliage-Pro and they are loving life. Saw EC spike up to 1900 with no adverse results - kicked it back down to around 1500. Damn air just sucks the water out of everything.

My prize bubble gum is doing great in soil less too - watered with a dilute solution of same with some plain water flushes.

Anyway, the Foliage-Pro seems like a winner.

RickWhite said:

Update:

Got the Super lemon Haze in the Ebb & Grow using the Foliage-Pro and they are loving life. Saw EC spike up to 1900 with no adverse results - kicked it back down to around 1500. Damn air just sucks the water out of everything.

My prize bubble gum is doing great in soil less too - watered with a dilute solution of same with some plain water flushes.

Anyway, the Foliage-Pro seems like a winner.

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It's refreshing to get great results without all the cost, confusion, and hype, eh. Dyna-Gro was producing while Big Mike was still messin' in his drawers.

Uncle Ben said:

It's refreshing to get great results without all the cost, confusion, and hype, eh. Dyna-Gro was producing while Big Mike was still messin' in his drawers.

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Well, since human nutrition isn't complicated I'd have to imagine plant nutrition isn't either.

One might assume hoever, that a Cannibus specific solution would have optimum N-P-K values and take the guesswork out of how much to use and what not. But of course there is another assumption that most companies only seek to maximize profit by selling a marginal product at an inflated price. My gut tells me that the latter is probably more true than the former in industries such as this.

Anyway, I'm seing great results and that is what counts.

When people say NPK ratios they mean ratios of Nitrogenhosphateotash correct?

So if someone says they use 3:1:2 ratio it means in terms of pure Nitrogenhosphorousotassium the ratio is actually 3:0.44:1.7 this is according to the GH nutrient calculator.

Anyway I always have what seem to be calcium issues around day 30 of flower most likely because I use RO water.

Using AN Sensi Bloom w/Magical for extra calcium. Do you guys think if I change to a nutrient with a NPK closer to 1:3:2 to flower I will avoid these calcium issues?

What do you guys think?

hymem said:

When people say NPK ratios they mean ratios of Nitrogenhosphateotash correct?

So if someone says they use 3:1:2 ratio it means in terms of pure Nitrogenhosphorousotassium the ratio is actually 3:0.44:1.7 this is according to the GH nutrient calculator.

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No, the ratio would actually be 3:1:2. Have no idea what GH is calculating.

It's a ratio, not an absolute. A 1:1:1 could be a 1:1:1, 6:6:6, or 20:20:20. Different strengths, but all considered a 1-1-1 ratio.

Make sense?

Wet

Wetdog said:

No, the ratio would actually be 3:1:2. Have no idea what GH is calculating.

It's a ratio, not an absolute. A 1:1:1 could be a 1:1:1, 6:6:6, or 20:20:20. Different strengths, but all considered a 1-1-1 ratio.

Make sense?

Wet

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I think the reason GH got those decimals is because The P in NPK is really P205 so when you say 3:1:2 you have 1 part p205 but only 0.44 parts pure phosphorous....

RickWhite said:

Well, since human nutrition isn't complicated I'd have to imagine plant nutrition isn't either.

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I'm not saying what the major manufacturers are doing is right or cost effective but their rational or argument is "sure you can get the basics from the other guys but our system is like theirs only on steroids."

Humans can get basic nutrition from proper eating to get big and strong but we can also supplement with newer technology like steroids, blood packing, supplements, and other methods that give some super human strength and size (not without some weird side effects though) just ask Barry Bonds.

My question is are we just getting the basics from these "cheap" nutes and are there plant additives that should/could be added for bigger "Barry Bonds" buds then the basics give?

YGB