Testing Hans panel: 56watt Cree xp-e/ Lumiled rebel power==== Let's talk efficiency

PetFlora · Sep 2, 2012

captainmorgan said:
I'm 432 watt's T5 now but looking to go LED with my 2.5 deep x 4.5 wide and 6.5 tall cabinet. Was considering 2 Area 51-90 panels which would cost $800 and use 360 watts. Is it possible that 2 of these 56 watt panels for $500 could do the same job? Seems to good to be true. The inside measurement of my scrog screen is 2' x 4'.

Correction,after checking again it looks like I would need 3 of these.But still that's only 168 watts.

Not that you need to justify switching from HO T5 to LED, but, have you tried HO aquarium bulbs? My last grow (432w) was the best ever, and would have been awesome had it not been for a huge infestation of aphids & spider mites.

I don't expect R/B/G leds coverage will improve much, however, a grower on another site is vegging under mostly Cree Neutral Whites. His DIY fixture had ~ 40% 660s, but he replaced most of them with more NWs, and is loving the veg results. One ~ 6" wide fixture is doing a very nice job covering a 20 x 30.

As I have been saying for a long time, the future was/is in NWs, and now that they light a bigger area, well...

Companies like www.rapidled.com make solderless kits that allows you to select the diode spectrums @< $2/watt

captainmorgan · Sep 2, 2012

PetFlora said:
Not that you need to justify switching from HO T5 to LED, but, have you tried HO aquarium bulbs? My last grow (432w) was the best ever, and would have been awesome had it not been for a huge infestation of aphids & spider mites.

I don't expect R/B/G leds coverage will improve much, however, a grower on another site is vegging under mostly Cree Neutral Whites. His DIY fixture had ~ 40% 660s, but he replaced most of them with more NWs, and is loving the veg results. One ~ 6" wide fixture is doing a very nice job covering a 20 x 30.

As I have been saying for a long time, the future was/is in NWs, and now that they light a bigger area, well...

Companies like www.rapidled.com make solderless kits that allows you to select the diode spectrums @< $2/watt

Pet,I'm using the specialty lamps and fairly happy with T5 but just looking for a way to cut down on electricity and heat.Heat is more of a issue for me in a sealed cabinet and in the hot weather I could use a small air conditioner but that just adds to the electric bill.LED looks like it could solve both issues,especially if the drivers could be outside the cabinet.Buying LED units seem to be falling around $100 a square foot for quality.I don't want to buy cheap ones and end up with problems down the road.I'm interested in the DIY from RAPIDLED and I have soldering skills but I would need help with design.Do you have a idea of cost per sqft to DIY from RAPIDLED?My main barrier right now is money and it may take me some time to switch but it looks like LED would solve my issues.The time it takes for me to save up for the switch might work to my advantage because some of the spectrum ratios may be more refined by then.I'm doing a lot of reading but I'm a newb to all of this and any help would be appreciated.It would be great if their was a Sticky thread in the LED section just for helping people with DIY LED.

PSUAGRO. · Sep 2, 2012

The Dawg said:
Brother Psuagro Your Led Is Amazing Indeed For Being Only 56 Watts.Too Bad You Had A Couple Of Nasty Azz Rude Biotches For Your First Grow.

Yeah................they need a good slap on the fan leaves............your girls are gonna really impress some heads around here

captainmorgan said:
I'm 432 watt's T5 now but looking to go LED with my 2.5 deep x 4.5 wide and 6.5 tall cabinet. Was considering 2 Area 51-90 panels which would cost $800 and use 360 watts. Is it possible that 2 of these 56 watt panels for $500 could do the same job? Seems to good to be true. The inside measurement of my scrog screen is 2' x 4'.

Correction,after checking again it looks like I would need 3 of these.But still that's only 168 watts.

NO.........won't replace that much wattage or penetration you would get from those area51 panels.......they do use good leds, so It would take many Hans panels to make up for it and you would STILL lack the penetration due to the lense angles...........only advantage would be less heat from the remote driver and less wattage; your yields will be smaller too............can't have your cake and eat it too

Amaximus said:
LOL. I really wish I could see your face at the start of your day when you first open that tent. I can only assume that look of disgust is accompanied by a loud sigh as well. lmao. sorry, having fun this morning.

They've come a long way, bud. So close now...

So i guess the real question is... What are your plans for the next grow? Lighting...strains....etc...?

ha........next round will be a comparison grow between 2?? (Hans may send another panel/ hasn't decided yet) hans panel vs indagrow 100......the strain choice maybe interesting for the RIU community :leaf:

could be one of our own breeders/stay tuned.......

PetFlora said:
Not that you need to justify switching from HO T5 to LED, but, have you tried HO aquarium bulbs? My last grow (432w) was the best ever, and would have been awesome had it not been for a huge infestation of aphids & spider mites.

I don't expect R/B/G leds coverage will improve much, however, a grower on another site is vegging under mostly Cree Neutral Whites. His DIY fixture had ~ 40% 660s, but he replaced most of them with more NWs, and is loving the veg results. One ~ 6" wide fixture is doing a very nice job covering a 20 x 30.

As I have been saying for a long time, the future was/is in NWs, and now that they light a bigger area, well...

Companies like www.rapidled.com make solderless kits that allows you to select the diode spectrums @< $2/watt

Yeah T5 work great........but in my situation(summer sealed room, no ac and no air exchange) their is no other option than a low wattage led panel.......

captainmorgan said:
Pet,I'm using the specialty lamps and fairly happy with T5 but just looking for a way to cut down on electricity and heat.Heat is more of a issue for me in a sealed cabinet and in the hot weather I could use a small air conditioner but that just adds to the electric bill.LED looks like it could solve both issues,especially if the drivers could be outside the cabinet.Buying LED units seem to be falling around $100 a square foot for quality.I don't want to buy cheap ones and end up with problems down the road.I'm interested in the DIY from RAPIDLED and I have soldering skills but I would need help with design.Do you have a idea of cost per sqft to DIY from RAPIDLED?My main barrier right now is money and it may take me some time to switch but it looks like LED would solve my issues.The time it takes for me to save up for the switch might work to my advantage because some of the spectrum ratios may be more refined by then.I'm doing a lot of reading but I'm a newb to all of this and any help would be appreciated.It would be great if their was a Sticky thread in the LED section just for helping people with DIY LED.

In your situation and HEAT is a huge issue I would take a strong look at Rhinogrow panels..........you get the remote driver and great leds with mostly 80degree lenses(way better penetration than Hans) and a larger footprint..........you can haggle with them too for a better price/ made in america! yeah that's right newworldicon

DAY 94 from germ............1&2

..........scoped and #2 is right on track for my vaca(30-35%amber).....#1 not even close but it doesn't matter, she'll have the same fate and time as her sis............couple gnats are still flying around lol/ never got rid of them.............

................56watt phase/ 54th day of bloom--longest auto grow ever/ 11-13/ be safe and happy growing

Txchilies · Sep 2, 2012

I feel ya Brother on pic #5, had the same exact feelings. Damn #2 is lookin Mighty Fantastic, is she about ready for the clippers?

Amaximus · Sep 3, 2012

PSUAGRO. said:
ha........next round will be a comparison grow between 2?? (Hans may send another panel/ hasn't decided yet) hans panel vs indagrow 100......the strain choice maybe interesting for the RIU communitycould be one of our own breeders/stay tuned.......

View attachment 2318158

^^^^^ That about sums up this grow!

Oh, riu breeder seeds... So cryptic. I'm intrigued. lol. As long as it isn't more subcool shit. :-o

So whats the story with the panels? If hans gives you another one you'll do an all hans grow and if not you'll purchase an indagrow 100 and do a side comparison?

PetFlora · Sep 3, 2012

Cpt M: This is an indirect answer to your question. I think it's important to bring others up to speed on LED tech.

Slowly, we are learning that the 460-590 are important to highest quality, meaning RB alone never was the answer 100%. The majority of led manufactures focused on R/B, any other spectrums were hard to come by and very expensive, up until ~ 2 years ago. But it takes fixture mfgs that long to incorporate new tech due to things like inventory. Until they draw down their inventory they aren't releasing newer tech. And if they do, it is many times more expensive.

LED tech is a lot like computer chip tech- storage=white diode tech is doubling ~ 9 months, BUT, we don't see it commercially for several years, not so with DIY.

If you think of the sun in electrical terms it's Analog, whereas indoor lighting is like Digital. Sony introduced the SACD music format~ 10 years ago. It is the closest medium to this day to matching analog, but Sony priced its' use beyond main stream mfgs, let alone DIYers. The existing commercial digital formats will never reproduce analog 100%. For most people that missing ~ 10% doesn't matter, but in mmj? MMJ requires roughly 10-20% of 460-590nms, which act as a catalyst to the others.

Today, companies like CREE have introduced Neutral Whites which provides ALL the spectrums indoor gardens need in a single bulb in ample quantities.

A DIY led thread on another site: a guy uses a Kessil 350 but has built parallel runs of CREE NWs (~20w). These and just about anything you want is available as DIY solderless kits! On that site another has a DIY who started a grow where he mixed R + NW. He decided to remove all but 4 Rs (I forget which nm, but probably 660s) and is blown away by the vegging performance AND coverage. My idea is R (660) should be on a separate circuit/on off switch to be used from flower- harvest.

Rapidled has solderless kits using 5w CREES (nms buyer choice!), outputs range 60-120 watts. The 4.5 X 23 @ ~150w is $250 (covers ~ 20 X 30"), including tapped/drilled heat sink. They are made with better quality parts, use no fans (noise) with the BEST leds currently available

chazbolin · Sep 3, 2012

Amaximus said:
^^^^^ That about sums up this grow!

Oh, riu breeder seeds... So cryptic. I'm intrigued. lol. As long as it isn't more subcool shit.

So whats the story with the panels? If hans gives you another one you'll do an all hans grow and if not you'll purchase an indagrow 100 and do a side comparison?

That will be fun to watch. consider me subbed!

captainmorgan · Sep 3, 2012

PetFlora said:
Cpt M: This is an indirect answer to your question. I think it's important to bring others up to speed on LED tech.

Slowly, we are learning that the 460-590 are important to highest quality, meaning RB alone never was the answer 100%. The majority of led manufactures focused on R/B, any other spectrums were hard to come by and very expensive, up until ~ 2 years ago. But it takes fixture mfgs that long to incorporate new tech due to things like inventory. Until they draw down their inventory they aren't releasing newer tech. And if they do, it is many times more expensive.

LED tech is a lot like computer chip tech- storage=white diode tech is doubling ~ 9 months, BUT, we don't see it commercially for several years, not so with DIY.

If you think of the sun in electrical terms it's Analog, whereas indoor lighting is like Digital. Sony introduced the SACD music format~ 10 years ago. It is the closest medium to this day to matching analog, but Sony priced its' use beyond main stream mfgs, let alone DIYers. The existing commercial digital formats will never reproduce analog 100%. For most people that missing ~ 10% doesn't matter, but in mmj? MMJ requires roughly 10-20% of 460-590nms, which act as a catalyst to the others.

Today, companies like CREE have introduced Neutral Whites which provides ALL the spectrums indoor gardens need in a single bulb in ample quantities.

A DIY led thread on another site: a guy uses a Kessil 350 but has built parallel runs of CREE NWs (~20w). These and just about anything you want is available as DIY solderless kits! On that site another has a DIY who started a grow where he mixed R + NW. He decided to remove all but 4 Rs (I forget which nm, but probably 660s) and is blown away by the vegging performance AND coverage. My idea is R (660) should be on a separate circuit/on off switch to be used from flower- harvest.

Rapidled has solderless kits using 5w CREES (nms buyer choice!), outputs range 60-120 watts. The 4.5 X 23 @ ~150w is $250 (covers ~ 20 X 30"), including tapped/drilled heat sink. They are made with better quality parts, use no fans (noise) with the BEST leds currently available

Pet,thanks for taking the time to help a newb get a handle on this stuff. The weather is cooling off so heat in the cabinet is getting better. I'm probably going to DYI some LED fixtures but will do it this winter. As long as their ready for the spring when things heat up again. This will give me more time to learn which spectrum's are working best for others and research and design my own. I found a heat sink and connectors that looks like it would be good for designing with,easy to change out LED's and change layout without soldering.
http://makersled.com/
http://makersled.com/?p=519

On the issue of heat with my 8 lamp T5,it has dual ballast with 2 switch's. How much heat could I remove from my cabinet by rewiring it and moving the ballast's outside the cabinet? What percent of the heat do you think the ballast's put out compared to the lamps?

Endur0xX · Sep 3, 2012

psuagro they llook good other that they are taking longer I really dont know how you could be so upset man 56watts and you are getting some nice looking buds. I am sure you will easily do better next time around but this isnt too shabby !!

PSUAGRO. · Sep 3, 2012

Txchilies said:
I feel ya Brother on pic #5, had the same exact feelings. Damn #2 is lookin Mighty Fantastic, is she about ready for the clippers?

Thanks brother Txchillies............yeah i'm shooting for 50% amber, wanna get the most out of this shit........the timer issues set me back a week, they definitely should have been done by now.......ill make it in time IMO and will hang them untrimmed for a week while on vaca/ no choice, can't jar them obviously.....

Amaximus said:
^^^^^ That about sums up this grow!

Oh, riu breeder seeds... So cryptic. I'm intrigued. lol. As long as it isn't more subcool shit.

So whats the story with the panels? If hans gives you another one you'll do an all hans grow and if not you'll purchase an indagrow 100 and do a side comparison?

yep great summary of this grow.........I would prefer 2 hans panels vs indagrow100, if he bails ill do 1vs1(i paid for my hans panel, the extra one and the indagrow will be donated for the comp)..........No awesome TGA strain, rather it would be one of our own led growers/breeder's seeds ;-)

I already got them/ real nice of him

chazbolin said:
That will be fun to watch. consider me subbed!

Yes it should be an epic battle of efficiency lol..........tell Daryl ill contact him before I leave for vaca/ itching to get this started!

Endur0xX said:
psuagro they llook good other that they are taking longer I really dont know how you could be so upset man 56watts and you are getting some nice looking buds. I am sure you will easily do better next time around but this isnt too shabby !!

Thanks enduro..........maybe expected to much from auto's, and I'm mad at myself for the overfert and damaging #1's root system.......too many errors in this grow/ next one should be better(crossing fingers).....i'm going back to what I know....SOIL!

captainmorgan said:
Pet,thanks for taking the time to help a newb get a handle on this stuff. The weather is cooling off so heat in the cabinet is getting better. I'm probably going to DYI some LED fixtures but will do it this winter. As long as their ready for the spring when things heat up again. This will give me more time to learn which spectrum's are working best for others and research and design my own. I found a heat sink and connectors that looks like it would be good for designing with,easy to change out LED's and change layout without soldering.
http://makersled.com/
http://makersled.com/?p=519

On the issue of heat with my 8 lamp T5,it has dual ballast with 2 switch's. How much heat could I remove from my cabinet by rewiring it and moving the ballast's outside the cabinet? What percent of the heat do you think the ballast's put out compared to the lamps?

You'll remove some heat by making them remote(don't run the ballast wiring too long)...but most of the heat is from the T5 bulbs........good luck

DAY 95 from germ............1&2View attachment 2319696 View attachment 2319697 View attachment 2319698 View attachment 2319701 View attachment 2319702 View attachment 2319704Still messing with my WB on the cam/ the Orca film gives off these white spots...idk....pissing me off. Water tomorrow and that's it..

....all the same............be safe and happy growing

DO3SHA · Sep 3, 2012

your almost home free sir lookin nice, This grow to me has proved that LED has come so far, as leds can finally be finer tuned and powerr can be controlled much more for MJ cultivation with good results

Txchilies · Sep 3, 2012

Agree with your choice of colors I see you like to veg on the couch like me...lol. My ww x bb got me this weekend thought I was still a few weeks out, they were milky friday night and sunday afternoon/evening the one had about 25 % ambers. I shut the light off will go and cut on thursday. I'm thinking you are still going to get a good 14 + off of #2, damn sure looks alot better than any of mine. :weed:

Chirulazo · Sep 3, 2012

man0os said:
Awesome Plants Chirulazo, How many weeks did they flower.
My plants looks like they could go longer than nine weeks, so I'll order a scope tomorrow, any recomandations?

Hi man, thanks for the congratulations

All of my plants have had normal flowering periods, this is between 8 and 11 weeks, depending on strain. But so far, i've seen totally normal development. I can say that i have maybe seen a little bit delay on trichomes maturation.... but a very little delay no more than a week. But, as a standard, 60 days more or less is taking my plants to be ready.

Cheers

PSUAGRO. · Sep 4, 2012

DO3SHA said:
your almost home free sir lookin nice, This grow to me has proved that LED has come so far, as leds can finally be finer tuned and powerr can be controlled much more for MJ cultivation with good results

Thanks grower............this panel can do some great stuff......I just had questionable medium/strain choices......others have shown it's true potential on here...

Txchilies said:
Agree with your choice of colors I see you like to veg on the couch like me...lol. My ww x bb got me this weekend thought I was still a few weeks out, they were milky friday night and sunday afternoon/evening the one had about 25 % ambers. I shut the light off will go and cut on thursday. I'm thinking you are still going to get a good 14 + off of #2, damn sure looks alot better than any of mine.

Yeah hopefully ill get my "yowza" effect lol.............she's showing some purple hues now/ will try to get a pic if my WB cooperates.........and you did quite well with this shitty pheno

PetFlora said:
Cpt M: This is an indirect answer to your question. I think it's important to bring others up to speed on LED tech.

Slowly, we are learning that the 460-590 are important to highest quality, meaning RB alone never was the answer 100%. The majority of led manufactures focused on R/B, any other spectrums were hard to come by and very expensive, up until ~ 2 years ago. But it takes fixture mfgs that long to incorporate new tech due to things like inventory. Until they draw down their inventory they aren't releasing newer tech. And if they do, it is many times more expensive.

LED tech is a lot like computer chip tech- storage=white diode tech is doubling ~ 9 months, BUT, we don't see it commercially for several years, not so with DIY.

If you think of the sun in electrical terms it's Analog, whereas indoor lighting is like Digital. Sony introduced the SACD music format~ 10 years ago. It is the closest medium to this day to matching analog, but Sony priced its' use beyond main stream mfgs, let alone DIYers. The existing commercial digital formats will never reproduce analog 100%. For most people that missing ~ 10% doesn't matter, but in mmj? MMJ requires roughly 10-20% of 460-590nms, which act as a catalyst to the others.

Today, companies like CREE have introduced Neutral Whites which provides ALL the spectrums indoor gardens need in a single bulb in ample quantities.

A DIY led thread on another site: a guy uses a Kessil 350 but has built parallel runs of CREE NWs (~20w). These and just about anything you want is available as DIY solderless kits! On that site another has a DIY who started a grow where he mixed R + NW. He decided to remove all but 4 Rs (I forget which nm, but probably 660s) and is blown away by the vegging performance AND coverage. My idea is R (660) should be on a separate circuit/on off switch to be used from flower- harvest.

Rapidled has solderless kits using 5w CREES (nms buyer choice!), outputs range 60-120 watts. The 4.5 X 23 @ ~150w is $250 (covers ~ 20 X 30"), including tapped/drilled heat sink. They are made with better quality parts, use no fans (noise) with the BEST leds currently available

forgot about you pet...........I'm still not 100% sold on a mostly NW panel, as you can see with cree xp-g nw

......it mostly peaks between 500-600nm, so yes it will work great for veg, but you will need to crank up the wattage(for flowering) compared to dedicated 660nm and 630nm diodes....thus nullifying the efficiency we want with this tech/ you don't wanna copy hid/ well maybe we do IDK........for me personally having 30% cool white leds and 65% 660/630nm plus a couple far reds would do better IMO

Chirulazo said:
Hi man, thanks for the congratulations

All of my plants have had normal flowering periods, this is between 8 and 11 weeks, depending on strain. But so far, i've seen totally normal development. I can say that i have maybe seen a little bit delay on trichomes maturation.... but a very little delay no more than a week. But, as a standard, 60 days more or less is taking my plants to be ready.

Cheers

The delay in finishing could possibly lie in having no Far-red in his panel and just two deep red rebels may be not enough either..........just my opinion.....WTF do I know

DAY 96 from germ.........1&2

.........well just waiting on these biooootches............getting there/ will scope tomorrow..........that's it

...........56watt phase/ 11-13/ 56th day of flower/ be safe and happy growing RIU

Txchilies · Sep 4, 2012

Looks like you are going to hit that 60 maybe 63 days to complete this grow. Let's get the clippers ready. :weed:

birdmananyweather · Sep 4, 2012

Nice grow brother! i'm excited to see the final results :clap:

IlovePlants · Sep 4, 2012

Great thread Psuagro,
Those little shiny nuglets are sure ripening up eh? Keep on it man, you're almost to the finish line, and everything looks healthy! Have you begun to flush?
Sincerely,
ILovePlants

PetFlora · Sep 5, 2012

PSU: Yeah that mix will work too.

My take is the NW has everything the Cool Whites have plus the needed 550-630. AND, since 660 is for flower, it could well be contraindicated for veg (at least the grower on IC is seeing much better results with fewer 660s, more NWs), which is why I think 660 belongs on a separate circuit with a separate plug/timer.

I only add my UVL 660 HO T5s during mid-flower-harvest

puffenuff · Sep 5, 2012

Pretty sure my apache has neutral whites (6500k?) and 630nm reds and I am thrilled with the results. Psuagro, I think you may be right about the lack of far red delaying finishing. The nw's/reds in my apache seem to hit just enough of the far red to not have that issue. Im really interested to see how the a51 lights perform with more red/far red vs white. As for all white panels, I would want to see them with warm, neutral, cool mixes.

Keep up the good work brother, almost there...

PSUAGRO. · Sep 5, 2012

Txchilies said:
Looks like you are going to hit that 60 maybe 63 days to complete this grow. Let's get the clippers ready.

yeah might come to that........they are slacking..........have to come to a decision soon.....clippers ready my friend

birdmananyweather said:
Nice grow brother! i'm excited to see the final results

Thanks..........the final yield will NOT be impressive.......tried my best and came up short/ learned some good lessons though.......

IlovePlants said:
Great thread Psuagro,
Those little shiny nuglets are sure ripening up eh? Keep on it man, you're almost to the finish line, and everything looks healthy! Have you begun to flush?
Sincerely,
ILovePlants

Yeah haven't given them anything but water for six weeks + since my overfert of granular flower nutes(some beni bacteria was added later due to the toxicity symptoms).......

puffenuff said:
Pretty sure my apache has neutral whites (6500k?) and 630nm reds and I am thrilled with the results. Psuagro, I think you may be right about the lack of far red delaying finishing. The nw's/reds in my apache seem to hit just enough of the far red to not have that issue. Im really interested to see how the a51 lights perform with more red/far red vs white. As for all white panels, I would want to see them with warm, neutral, cool mixes.

Keep up the good work brother, almost there...

I Don't know what white diodes the apache has.......either way it fucking works great

.....I really think that new area51 panel is gonna rock it(someone needs to tell Fero to stop comparing it to a 400w hid though).............whoever wins the comp should do a journal with it/ allot of people want to see this thing in action......thanks brother puff.....

Yeah Puff it's strange that we never saw one of those Isunlight panels journaled here with the all white mix(2700/5000/6500k)diodes........but I did hear that the company was having customer and internal issues........

DAY 97 from germ..........1&2

.......scoped and they are lagging/ no major change...........well i'm lowering the light schedule to 10-14 / I'm gonna get my amber count right dammit!!.......idk what's going on but I'm chopping next week at the latest regardless

<<<<strangling #1 lol.......she's gonna get chopped first no doubt

........56watt and blahhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Testing Hans panel: 56watt Cree xp-e/ Lumiled rebel power==== Let's talk efficiency

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