Supremes rule racist policies to fight racism is unconstitutional...go figure

UncleBuck said:

but that's a false and racist stereotype perpetuated by racists and white supremacists who want to appropriate education as a white thing when it is not.

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That has nothing to do with what I said. Black people beating up other black people for "acting white" has nothing to do with racist white supremacists.

tokeprep said:

That has nothing to do with what I said. Black people beating up other black people for "acting white" has nothing to do with racist white supremacists.

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Nothing?

Pinworm said:

Nothing?

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Nothing.

tokeprep said:

Nothing.

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Well since you put it that way.

Pinworm said:

Well since you put it that way.

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If you don't see it it means you cannot see.

tokeprep said:

That has nothing to do with what I said. Black people beating up other black people for "acting white" has nothing to do with racist white supremacists.

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until you demonstrate the prevalence of this, i'll continue to treat it as the overblown talking point that it is.

UncleBuck said:

until you demonstrate the prevalence of this, i'll continue to treat it as the overblown talking point that it is.

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You need not rely on my anecdotal report:

An Empirical Analysis of "Acting White" by Roland G. Fryer, Jr. and Paul Torelli. http://www.nber.org/papers/w11334.

tokeprep said:

You need not rely on my anecdotal report:

An Empirical Analysis of "Acting White" by Roland G. Fryer, Jr. and Paul Torelli. http://www.nber.org/papers/w11334.

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The effect is intensified among high achievers and in schools with more interracial contact, but non-existent among students in predominantly black schools or private schools.


and that's just in the abstract.

not to mention other studies about "acting white" which confirm my previous suspicions about the prevalence of the problem and the attitudes of the races toward education.

In 1997 the scholars Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig published a report finding that blacks do not face any stronger social pressures than whites to succeed in school, nor do they have greater feelings of alienation towards education in general. They noted anecdotal and ethnographic research confirming that minority students hold these views, but they concluded that these are not inherently generalizable and do not substantially affect student behavior in the classroom. They labeled the issue "something of a distraction" from what they saw as more important educational reforms.[2]

Integration of many public schools since the mid- to late-20th century may have resulted in schools in which black students perceived they were controlled or dominated by whites. A black student trying to achieve high educational success may then be considered as trying to leave the minority group.[9]

In their 2003 study, Tyson and Darity said that school staff and faculty who hold racist attitudes about the ability of black students use the acting whitedisparagement as a cover for disparities in student performance.[3]

UncleBuck said:

The effect is intensified among high achievers and in schools with more interracial contact, but non-existent among students in predominantly black schools or private schools.


and that's just in the abstract.

not to mention other studies about "acting white" which confirm my previous suspicions about the prevalence of the problem and the attitudes of the races toward education.

In 1997 the scholars Philip J. Cook and Jens Ludwig published a report finding that blacks do not face any stronger social pressures than whites to succeed in school, nor do they have greater feelings of alienation towards education in general. They noted anecdotal and ethnographic research confirming that minority students hold these views, but they concluded that these are not inherently generalizable and do not substantially affect student behavior in the classroom. They labeled the issue "something of a distraction" from what they saw as more important educational reforms.[2]

Integration of many public schools since the mid- to late-20th century may have resulted in schools in which black students perceived they were controlled or dominated by whites. A black student trying to achieve high educational success may then be considered as trying to leave the minority group.[9]

In their 2003 study, Tyson and Darity said that school staff and faculty who hold racist attitudes about the ability of black students use the acting whitedisparagement as a cover for disparities in student performance.[3]

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So you obviously didn't read the study. Thanks, Buck. That's exactly what I expected from you. Lately you never disappoint those expectations.

tokeprep said:

So you obviously didn't read the study. Thanks, Buck. That's exactly what I expected from you. Lately you never disappoint those expectations.

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it's a ~30 page study, i'm not gonna read it right away. i'll read it tonight when i get bored.

i looked up the authors and other studies on "acting white" came up, so i took a quick summary analysis away from the combined works. some works contradict others, but they all lead to about the same conclusion. education is not taboo in black culture.

sometimes, when blacks feel overpowered as a minority in their school setting they may refer to the overachievers as "acting white" in the same way whites might call each other nerds. it's a racial identity coping mechanism more than anything else. it doesn't exist in adults, and it doesn't exist in all black schools (your study even said so right in the abstract).

if "acting white" were a problem across black culture that had nothing to do with white racism, then why does the phenomenon cease to exist in all black schools?

UncleBuck said:

it's a ~30 page study, i'm not gonna read it right away. i'll read it tonight when i get bored.

i looked up the authors and other studies on "acting white" came up, so i took a quick summary analysis away from the combined works. some works contradict others, but they all lead to about the same conclusion. education is not taboo in black culture.

sometimes, when blacks feel overpowered as a minority in their school setting they may refer to the overachievers as "acting white" in the same way whites might call each other nerds. it's a racial identity coping mechanism more than anything else. it doesn't exist in adults, and it doesn't exist in all black schools (your study even said so right in the abstract).

if "acting white" were a problem across black culture that had nothing to do with white racism, then why does the phenomenon cease to exist in all black schools?

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Well, the study is based on data from a survey, so quite frankly I don't care what the specific conclusions were. I know the study concludes that "acting white" is a legitimate problem in some circumstances, which is the only reason I cited it. I don't need to see a study. My friend lived it. He saw it with his own eyes. And when I relayed his experience here in the past several other people here spoke up and said that they had lived exactly the same experience.

Like I said, I think it's tragic. It saddens me profoundly. But knowing that my friend lived in one of the "blackest" areas of the country, I cannot deny the reality of his experience. It echoes my own experience in high school at a mostly minority school, even though I was totally ignorant of this problem back then because I knew nothing of black culture and was insulated by an advanced program.

But that's what sets us apart, isn't it? You want to deny that there is any problem and keep these people dependent on the dole. I want to liberate them. I want to eliminate racial animosity because I have seen it dissipated.

I've been fucked with in the ghetto because I was white. But my friend and his brother's family treated me with perfect hospitality because I knew them well and we got along. That's the kind of society I want to live in, not one that's arbitrarily racially divided.

tokeprep said:

You want to deny that there is any problem and keep these people dependent on the dole. I want to liberate them. I want to eliminate racial animosity because I have seen it dissipated.

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i'm not convinced you want to eliminate racial animosity after the racist stereotypes you asserted earlier, and i'm pretty sure you're more for keeping blacks "dependent on the dole" (another great stereotype there, champ) with your outright hatred of affirmative action based on your invented scenario of being rejected for someone whose race and SES was made known to you explicitly.

if "acting white" were really a legitimate problem unique to "black culture" (another term i abhor given the massive varieties of "black culture" that exist), then why is it non-existent in all-black and historically black schools?

why does the phenomenon only appear in interracial settings where blacks are outnumbered and perceive themselves to be overpowered? why does it not exist or exist less in black adults who have come to terms with their racial identity?

if a centuries of persecution led to your parents and grandparents being limited in their job success by a predominantly white society, would you not expect their children to put less value in education which could improve their future job success? despite this, studies show that blacks and whites do hold similar feelings about education.

your own study is raising some major questions that basically show that "acting white" is not an issue unique to "black culture", otherwise we'd see it in all-black schools. "acting white" has more to do with racial identity and appears in interracial settings. hard to say it's unique to black culture when it only pops up in interracial settings of developing adolescents.

you try to mischaracterize the issue and assign it as a major problem in black culture. you use it as an ugly racial stereotype and overstate its prevalence.

devryU has left you woefully unprepared for life.

tokeprep said:

You need not rely on my anecdotal report:

An Empirical Analysis of "Acting White" by Roland G. Fryer, Jr. and Paul Torelli. http://www.nber.org/papers/w11334.

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This chart from that study caused my eyes to pop. It is very different from their overall pattern in public schools.

UncleBuck said:

i'm not convinced you want to eliminate racial animosity after the racist stereotypes you asserted earlier, and i'm pretty sure you're more for keeping blacks "dependent on the dole" (another great stereotype there, champ) with your outright hatred of affirmative action based on your invented scenario of being rejected for someone whose race and SES was made known to you explicitly.

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Lying again. I have never claimed race and SES were known to be specifically. Never. I have always maintained that affirmative action should be based on socioeconomic background and not race.

if "acting white" were really a legitimate problem unique to "black culture" (another term i abhor given the massive varieties of "black culture" that exist), then why is it non-existent in all-black and historically black schools?

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If you claim it's non-existent you deny the reality other people are living.

why does the phenomenon only appear in interracial settings where blacks are outnumbered and perceive themselves to be overpowered? why does it not exist or exist less in black adults who have come to terms with their racial identity?

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That's simple. It doesn't.

if a centuries of persecution led to your parents and grandparents being limited in their job success by a predominantly white society, would you not expect their children to put less value in education which could improve their future job success? despite this, studies show that blacks and whites do hold similar feelings about education.

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Feelings. Great. What are feelings worth?

your own study is raising some major questions that basically show that "acting white" is not an issue unique to "black culture", otherwise we'd see it in all-black schools. "acting white" has more to do with racial identity and appears in interracial settings. hard to say it's unique to black culture when it only pops up in interracial settings of developing adolescents.

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Talking out of your ass instead of talking from real life experience.

you try to mischaracterize the issue and assign it as a major problem in black culture. you use it as an ugly racial stereotype and overstate its prevalence.

devryU has left you woefully unprepared for life.

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You deny the problem out of ignorance.

tokeprep said:

I've been fucked with in the ghetto because I was white.

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What were you wearing? I've had similar troubles.

Pinworm said:

What were you wearing? I've had similar troubles.

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It wasn't a matter of what I was wearing. I was the only white person around.

UncleBuck said:

i'm not convinced you want to eliminate racial animosity after the racist stereotypes you asserted earlier, and i'm pretty sure you're more for keeping blacks "dependent on the dole" (another great stereotype there, champ) with your outright hatred of affirmative action based on your invented scenario of being rejected for someone whose race and SES was made known to you explicitly.

if "acting white" were really a legitimate problem unique to "black culture" (another term i abhor given the massive varieties of "black culture" that exist), then why is it non-existent in all-black and historically black schools?

why does the phenomenon only appear in interracial settings where blacks are outnumbered and perceive themselves to be overpowered? why does it not exist or exist less in black adults who have come to terms with their racial identity?

if a centuries of persecution led to your parents and grandparents being limited in their job success by a predominantly white society, would you not expect their children to put less value in education which could improve their future job success? despite this, studies show that blacks and whites do hold similar feelings about education.

your own study is raising some major questions that basically show that "acting white" is not an issue unique to "black culture", otherwise we'd see it in all-black schools. "acting white" has more to do with racial identity and appears in interracial settings. hard to say it's unique to black culture when it only pops up in interracial settings of developing adolescents.

you try to mischaracterize the issue and assign it as a major problem in black culture. you use it as an ugly racial stereotype and overstate its prevalence.

devryU has left you woefully unprepared for life.

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tokeprep said:

It wasn't a matter of what I was wearing. I was the only white person around.

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Yea. You creep me the fuck out. And, that's coming from me. What does that tell you about yourself?

tokeprep said:

I have never claimed race and SES were known to be specifically. Never.

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yes you did. then you said you ASSUMED that information after myself and several others smelled the scent of utter bullshit wafting from your tall tale.

tokeprep said:

If you claim it's non-existent you deny the reality other people are living.



That's simple. It doesn't.

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so you don't believe the very study you cited?

The effect is intensified among high achievers and in schools with more interracial contact, but non-existent among students in predominantly black schools or private schools.

tokeprep said:

Feelings. Great. What are feelings worth?

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if you had a front seat to your black family being denied equal opportunity and job success in a white dominated society, would you place as much value in your education and thus job success?

despite all this, blacks and whites still have similar attitudes toward education.

tokeprep said:

Talking out of your ass instead of talking from real life experience.



You deny the problem out of ignorance.

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your opinion is all fine and dandy, but those questions i raised for you came from other studies about "acting white".

your anecdotal experience pales in comparison to the depths of these studies.

now go on, tell everyone how much you "owned me", maybe throw in a story from your supposed time on capitol hill, devryUprep.

tokeprep said:

It wasn't a matter of what I was wearing. I was the only white person around.

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you sure it wan't the swatsika tattoo on your forehead or the stink eye you gave to every black person around?