Supremes rule racist policies to fight racism is unconstitutional...go figure

greenlikemoney said:

Affirmative Action is used to justify racism by taking actions not based on qualifications but by other quotas.

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i commented on this misperception of yours earlier, but it got deleted for some reason.

quotas are illegal. you are spreading misinformation.

now, when it comes to spreading misinformation on any given issue, it is either due to malice or stupidity. hanlon's razor says that we should not attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity, so i attributed your false information to the latter. i'm pretty sure that's what got my remark deleted.

but the point remains.

Centuries of unequal access and racism.

When will this excuse lose merit?

How could black people born from say the 80's onwards possibly feel the effects of segregation that ended when their parents were kids?

Are you claiming they have some kind of genetic memory?

UncleBuck said:

so your solution to the problem of unequal representation would be to perpetuate it?

not surprising.

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So you're saying that anyone not white can't pass the SAT? Or are you saying we must dumb down the system so those that are not ready can attend?

Harrekin said:

Centuries of unequal access and racism.

When will this excuse lose merit?

How could black people born from say the 80's onwards possibly feel the effects of segregation that ended when their parents were kids?

Are you claiming they have some kind of genetic memory?

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studies of aculturation indicate that some cultures stick with people for generations. this includes bias, eating habits, custom and marriage preference. I am of Italian descent, in general, Italians retain at least some italian-ness into the fourth generation. I am third, I see qualities in my daughter. It is possible that cultures altered through repression could continue for generations after the repression is ended.

Winter Woman said:

So you're saying that anyone not white can't pass the SAT? Or are you saying we must dumb down the system so those that are not ready can attend?

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That, reall,y is the definition right there of Affirmative Action.

UncleBuck said:

so your solution to the problem of unequal representation would be to perpetuate it?

not surprising.

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Everybody gets a trophy, even the losers !!!!!.....do you not realize how lame that sounds?

greenlikemoney said:

Everybody gets a trophy, even the losers !!!!!.....do you not realize how lame that sounds?

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except it is a poor comparison.

Winter Woman said:

So you're saying that anyone not white can't pass the SAT? Or are you saying we must dumb down the system so those that are not ready can attend?

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so here is the question. If two races take the same test and one of the races consistantly scores lower, what can we surmise?

canndo said:

so here is the question. If two races take the same test and one of the races consistantly scores lower, what can we surmise?

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That we should focus on fixing our grossly unequal property tax-funded primary education system instead of pretending that affirmative action in college admissions--benefiting a tiny number of people, relatively--makes everything alright?

If you've ever known a black person who went to a black school in a bad area you already know where the gulf in scores come from.

tokeprep said:

That we should focus on fixing our grossly unequal property tax-funded primary education system instead of pretending that affirmative action in college admissions--benefiting a tiny number of people, relatively--makes everything alright?

If you've ever known a black person who went to a black school in a bad area you already know where the gulf in scores come from.

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so a situation where all the students in a particular school are of one race. That school is disadvantaged because it is in a community that is all one race and that one race was placed at a disadvantage because the members of that community are at a lower economic level.

they are at a lower economic level because they went to a school that was disadvantaged because it was in a disadvantaged neighborhood.

canndo said:

so a situation where all the students in a particular school are of one race. That school is disadvantaged because it is in a community that is all one race and that one race was placed at a disadvantage because the members of that community are at a lower economic level.

they are at a lower economic level because they went to a school that was disadvantaged because it was in a disadvantaged neighborhood.

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The main problem is cultural. Doing well in school is "acting white." You get beat up for it. Disrupting classes and threatening teachers is a means of obtaining popularity, not something shocking that is shunned. So on and so on.

tokeprep said:

The main problem is cultural. Doing well in school is "acting white." You get beat up for it. Disrupting classes and threatening teachers is a means of obtaining popularity, not something shocking that is shunned. So on and so on.

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I won't dissagree that the "problem" is cultural, and I am sure it goes to things like the value of an education, the value of work applied to that education, and all the rest. Now, how do cultural values change? by exposure to other cultural values. How do we do that if the culture we are trying to alter has a cultural tendency to aviod being exposed to other cultures?

Affirmative action breeds racial discontent.

canndo said:

studies of aculturation indicate that some cultures stick with people for generations. this includes bias, eating habits, custom and marriage preference. I am of Italian descent, in general, Italians retain at least some italian-ness into the fourth generation. I am third, I see qualities in my daughter. It is possible that cultures altered through repression could continue for generations after the repression is ended.

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Are you saying that Black people still act like slaves?

What do you want for nuthin.....

canndo said:

What would you have done then, to aleviate the problem of blacks not being represented in all parts of society?

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First off, you have to convince me that this is a problem.

canndo said:

so a situation where all the students in a particular school are of one race. That school is disadvantaged because it is in a community that is all one race and that one race was placed at a disadvantage because the members of that community are at a lower economic level.

they are at a lower economic level because they went to a school that was disadvantaged because it was in a disadvantaged neighborhood.

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Saying the school is disadvantaged because of local economics is hogwash. Detroit Public Schools spends $15,570 per pupil in 2010 and large suburban school systems pay $10,846 per student. So the idea of saying economics is the problem is simple not holding water.

Harrekin said:

Centuries of unequal access and racism.

When will this excuse lose merit?

How could black people born from say the 80's onwards possibly feel the effects of segregation that ended when their parents were kids?

Are you claiming they have some kind of genetic memory?

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Winter Woman said:

Saying the school is disadvantaged because of local economics is hogwash.

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so you guys don;t think that the de facto segregation we still face, a remnant of actual segregation and institutional racism, has vanished already? because the demographic maps say it hasn't.

blue dots are black people, red dots are white people.

detroit:





it pretty much looks the same in every major city. our history didn't vanish overnight, historically disadvantaged areas still face the same problems they have faced for decades and centuries.

NoDrama said:

Are you saying that Black people still act like slaves?

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I am saying that culture survives generations. I said nothing about blacks, nor will I. I spoke about Italians and italian culture.

BigNBushy said:

First off, you have to convince me that this is a problem.

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Unless you believe that a certain race is inherently intellectualy inferior, then you will have a problem reconciling the fact that there are certain areas where those races are not represented in approximately the same numbers they do in society at large.

The fact is that if, indeed this is a country of truely equal oportunity, then each race will be roughly represented in most areas. CEOs of major corporations, the Senate, the House, the professions. If you start with sports you will get nowhere. Boxing was overly represented by italians, and then by the Irish and it was used by them as a means to elevate themselves as individuals where there were few other avenues open at the time.

Winter Woman said:

Saying the school is disadvantaged because of local economics is hogwash. Detroit Public Schools spends $15,570 per pupil in 2010 and large suburban school systems pay $10,846 per student. So the idea of saying economics is the problem is simple not holding water.

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Ok, then why are some schools more likely to have students who succeed and other schools are not? I attended a highschool that was rated as one of the top two in the nation. virtually no graduates from that school did not go on to college. How does that happen?