Subcool, Mzjil, Ken Estes, Lawrence Ringo, DJ Short on breeding theory and techniques

homebrewer said:

I didn't know pollen-chucking f1 polyhybrids counted as breeding.

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you only like to smoke IBL's or what?? haha hater!

although you could see DJ getting a little giggly when sub and ringo were talking about releasing f1s

where can i get some of ringo's gear????
DJ is the best breeder ever, hands down i need to get me some Blueberry

i dont agree with some of you guys, sub creates seeds using stellar cuttings, saving you a ton of work because you know you wont have to hunt for too long for keeper pheno, there is one in any pack of 10. Why cant you call him a breeder? refusing to call him a breeder but calling him a seed maker is non sense. Most growers nowadays are going for that one special keeper and I dont know anyone with big grow ops starting from seeds... as long as you are aware that what you are buying are not IBLs I dont see the problem.

I like to have an idea of what a plant will look like if I'm paying for the seed. Yes there is variation in a pack of DJ BB but you can tell all of the plants are siblings.
I will say that when he said he loves CBN it was a eureka moment for why I don't like his gear.

MrEDuck said:

I like to have an idea of what a plant will look like if I'm paying for the seed. Yes there is variation in a pack of DJ BB but you can tell all of the plants are siblings.
I will say that when he said he loves CBN it was a eureka moment for why I don't like his gear.

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not like all of his gear is high is CBN, how many strains have you grown from TGA to say you dont like their gear?

I think they were breeding (making seeds ) for flavour, smell and resin content before they started testing their gear so yeah I doubt everything on the menu is high in CBN.

Its probably the last time I was growing out a male from TGA gear though because now that I am starting to know what I am doing, I will hunt to find a nice landrace male. However I will buy the strain ''du jour'' on their menu every once in a while to find nice females.

I've smoked several that friends have grown and haven't been wowed by anything.
While they haven't been testing for it for long in a lab the test of do I like this has always been employed.

GreenSanta said:

i dont agree with some of you guys, sub creates seeds using stellar cuttings, saving you a ton of work because you know you wont have to hunt for too long for keeper pheno, there is one in any pack of 10. Why cant you call him a breeder? refusing to call him a breeder but calling him a seed maker is non sense. Most growers nowadays are going for that one special keeper and I dont know anyone with big grow ops starting from seeds... as long as you are aware that what you are buying are not IBLs I dont see the problem.

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A real 'breeder' takes crosses out further than the initial f1 cross. Sub is a stellar grower who has an eye for nice plants but for anyone in the audience who has done the closet pollen-chucking thing before, I bet they were disappointed with the lack of real breeding content in that presentation.

It seems you all put way too much weight in the word 'breeder', as if it's some badge or level one can achieve as a grower. The derogative word pollen-chucker makes that evident.

Crossbreeding is still breeding. It's not the result or generation that counts, anyone who 'selects' traits in plants and crosses those with the intention of selecting those traits into offspring is breeding. Obviously doesn't make one a good breeder though, which is what you should be arguing about instead. I've never grown anything from Sub, but if homebrewer says he "is a stellar grower who has an eye for nice plants - which is 99% of breeding, the other 1% is just a matter of having the time and space - it can't be all bad.

I can say for a fact I have grown out a number of Tga subcool gear. And smoked more. There are certainly winners to be found. The term breeder iS a badge of honor in this industry.because to the community at large the difference is in quality. Even the best breeders will create and release less than stellar results from time to time.
example is the TomHill gear I have grown out and smoked from friends grows. I was completely unimpressed. But even he states multiple packs are needed to find a true winner, or make f2s and search through those. Minimal selection and mass open pollination can bring a more cereal phenotypes to the surface. Great breeding material.
like DJ said its ultimately about effect. Flavor/aroma is secondary, with reasonable flowering time of course. Then flower structure ans general growth habits the same.
as for mixed spectrum you are feeding your plants a healthier diet. Cmh lighting is really performing for us currently (testing a new type of ballast for CDL lamps) may help to produce better/more terpenes.

Peace

Sativied said:

It seems you all put way too much weight in the word 'breeder', as if it's some badge or level one can achieve as a grower. The derogative word pollen-chucker makes that evident.

Crossbreeding is still breeding. It's not the result or generation that counts, anyone who 'selects' traits in plants and crosses those with the intention of selecting those traits into offspring is breeding. Obviously doesn't make one a good breeder though, which is what you should be arguing about instead. I've never grown anything from Sub, but if homebrewer says he "is a stellar grower who has an eye for nice plants - which is 99% of breeding, the other 1% is just a matter of having the time and space - it can't be all bad.

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Sorry homes this last statement on % is WAY off. Space and time are closer to 50% the rest is having the genetic material. I have been going this professionally no for a few years and the breeding aspect is hit and miss until one begins to understand what the parent plants bring to the table and then guessing on what might pair well. Time and space are needed obvioulsy to test progeny.

Peace

homebrew420 said:

Sorry homes this last statement on % is WAY off. Space and time are closer to 50% the rest is having the genetic material. Time and space are needed obvioulsy to test progeny.

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Yeah I didn't phrase that very well and obviously wasn't a scientific measurement either. Space and time are obviously essential, above all. Like closet-breeding is an oxymoron by itself because the ratios hardly apply with a dozen of plants. However, "having the genetic material" IS a matter of that 99% I mentioned. A stellar grower who has an eye for nice plants can easily obtain the widely available huge variety of genetics - no need to go pluck landraces. Having or being able to obtain the best genetics without being a stellar grower and without an eye for nice plants is useless and fits the word pollen-chucker. The rest is just a matter of time and space. Making seeds is easy, pollinating is easy, being able to select the parents (again requiring grow skills an being able to recognize what makes a 'nice plant' is what it really comes down to.

homebrew420 said:

I have been doing this professionally now for a few years and the breeding aspect is hit and miss until one begins to understand what the parent plants bring to the table and then guessing on what might pair well.

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That's why starting with IBLs is ideal.

i like all strains and seeds

well educated and hardworking breeders deserve my monies. i can make my own f1/f2 hooplah and crosses from elite cuttings.

polyarcturus said:

i like all strains and seeds

well educated and hardworking breeders deserve my monies. i can make my own f1/f2 hooplah and crosses from elite cuttings.

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why does it say in your signature say no to R4, are they made using ruderalis? how about the cbd rich strains from Reggae Seeds, did they use Ruderalis?

"CBD only" weed is inferior and genetically modified and bred to be this way, inferior.cbd cbn thc are all part of the natural medicine and work together based on thier inherent proportions to produce and effect, cant have one without the other, it works better that way IMO.

ruderelis is a natural occurring inferior specie of cannabis, and breeding with it creates inferior genetics especially when there are already photoperiod plants that can flower in the same amt. of time, under half the light, and yield more.

i feel to see any potential in breeding with ruderelis, it would be many more generations than has been completed. autoflowers are unfinished products that got pushed into the market too early and there are none that i beleive to this day to be even close to a finished product.

polyarcturus said:

"CBD only" weed is inferior and genetically modified and bred to be this way, inferior.cbd cbn thc are all part of the natural medicine and work together based on thier inherent proportions to produce and effect, cant have one without the other, it works better that way IMO.

ruderelis is a natural occurring inferior specie of cannabis, and breeding with it creates inferior genetics especially when there are already photoperiod plants that can flower in the same amt. of time, under half the light, and yield more.

i feel to see any potential in breeding with ruderelis, it would be many more generations than has been completed. autoflowers are unfinished products that got pushed into the market too early and there are none that i beleive to this day to be even close to a finished product.

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I agree, far too many kids growing auto flowers indoor when most if not all photoperiod can yield more with only 12 hours of light from start to finish and finish in about the same time. I am against autoflowering and I really dont want to use any ruderalis in my breeding. That is why I am a bit concerned now because I also want to breed for higher CBD. I have a beautiful cut of RESPECT from reggae seeds and also Senora Ampero but now I am worried that at some point they used ruderalis with them. though its hard to say for sure according to seedfinder I cant really see. Are there any weed with high CBD that have not been cross contaminated with ruderalis?

I agree that autos indoors makes little sense. I personally have never grown an auto, but I can see their utility for outdoor grows in tough climates. I grow some CBD strains and am after the cbd, I dont really care if there is some ruderalis in it as long as the medicinal benefits are there. My guess is many CBD strains contain no ruderalis. Finding out would require an expensive DNA test though.

There is plenty of high CBD photoperiod plants. We've just bred for high THC content much more.
I've smoked some outstanding autos but I doubt I'll grow them inside. Outside they have a lot going for them because they can finish before photos start flowering.

Cascadian said:

Emerald Cup 2013: Subcool, Mzjil, Ken Estes, Lawrence Ringo, DJ Short on breeding theory and techniques...

http://youtu.be/LcE1RQF1XkQ
Couldn't get it to embed..

Great interesting, informative video! 1.5 hours but worth it when you can make the time. Starts slow, but moves to more advanced...

Originally posted by Mason Jar 92705 in the "TGA by others" thread in Subcool's Oldschool Organics forum. Posting it in case anybody missed it.

Peace,
Cascadian

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I like the sign at the bottom of the vid attached to the gate! Great vid by the way!