Soil runoff

Ok so it has taken me a couple of weeks with the lime and ec/pH meter but here are the first results, totally green plants, pic 3 shows the last of the purple stems dissapearing. Some purple leaf stems remain but i think this is very minimal. The plant was not repotted very long ago and has had lime in the soil as well as a teaspoon top dressing. Ph is at 6.6.

I still think i have a way to go yet but i am getting there slowly.

When all the pH and lime is done i think i still have some mag def problems and micro/macro as well. Gona start with extra mag and the odd dose of maxicrop now to see if that sorts them out completly, then i might be able to start feeding some bigger doses of ferts.

max316420 said:

http://www.totalgro.com/concepts.htm

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This shows the relationship between cal and mag, too much of one provides a deficiency in the other. I would assume cal and mag are needed in relatively equal quantities. How much ppm should i give to my plants in the water before ferts, would 200ppm on top of the ferts hurt or is this an acceptable range. This would be administered in every watering or ferts. I am just looking to supplement the mag with epsom salts in my tap water as it is very soft with only 50ppm or less. This is where i seem to lack in cal/mag too but am confident the level of calcium released in my soil is adequate and quick enough to deal with the calcium deficiency and buffering from the lime. Definatly get instant results from the lime but still not perfect so assume its the mag.

Dude I would try the epsom salt cause if your not lacking the calcium then you might overdue it and lock something else out.. I'm starting to think that these food companies are trying to fuck us with the magnesium?? These companies know damn well that WE are the ones who buy their products the most and don't tell me they don't look on forums like this to see how people are using their products.. what's up with that? I'll tell you from now on that I am using epsom salt with every feeding that I give my ladies in bloom. My bbjam is a magnesium HOG and I CAN'T STRESS THIS ENOUGH, PLANTS USE JUST ABOUT THE SAME ABOUT OF MAGNESIUM AS THE OTHER MACRO NUTES AND THESE FOOD COMPANIES JUST DON'T PROVIDE CLOSE TO ENOUGH FOR GOOD PHOTOSYNTHESIS WHILE FLOWERING.

@ king

Is there any perlite in your soil? And forgot to mention your ladies are looking very good

No i am anti perlite and vermicumlite, these mess up your lungs if you breathe the dust, never gona entertain these again, that being said i know vermiculite cotains one or two minerals. I am gona go back to the mini hydroton for veg and a slightly larger size for flowering but only like 10% in the soil and mainly for aiding the soil to dry a bit quicker.

I am with you on the magnesium, ferts just don't cut it anymore, the amount of cal/mag in tomato ferts is laughable and these are heavy on the cal/mag. I think we have cracked it anyway, adequate cal/mag in equal proportions. I just wish i could read the level of calcium in the soil so i could add the appropriate amount of epsom salts.

Still wondering about the right ppm levels for epsom salts to supplement the lime in the soil, even just the safe amounts ppm-waise would be a start.

Yes the plants are getting a lot better but still need's some work. I am sure it is that i am not giving enough mag but am upping the levels slowly to find that sweet spot. Obviously i can start on small doses for the seedlings and possibly keep them small through the entire grow as it should provide a steady supply. The deficient ones will get a bigger dose to get them back on track.

Sh!t thing about soil is you got to wait till next waterings to change things and if thats 5 days away it just makes things worse.

I really think i am getting to the point where i want to be, almost totally green plants and hardly anything wrong with the new ones. Still got work to do but after a long time it is starting to get fun again. Thank god for that!

From what I have been researching that 1 ts per gallon should do the job just fine

I think tonight i will measure one teaspoon and one gallon and the ppm that to see exactly what this recomendation leads to in terms of ppm. Before then lets clear somthing up, a gallon in imperial measurements is 4.5 litres but in US measurements it is 3.8 litres. I doubt this would make the biggest of differences but which are we going for.

Also one teaspoon over here is 6ml and a US teaspoon is 5ml. Am i going with the US version or what?

Kingrow1 said:

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Ok so this is what prompted me to think pH in the first place, a picture from my book called 'Marijuana Garden Saver' by J.C.Stitch and edited by Ed Rosenthal, the only book i have been able to accuratly diagnose plants with.

Next is my worst plant that i have pulled from the flower room, similar i think you will agree, especially the picture directly after it. I know a lot of my leaves look different but belive me they all started out similar to the picture in the book. I don't and wouldn't say i have any other deficiencies etc etc and think my plant just shows pH problems.

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I have that same book The cool thing is that you will know if PH is the culprit because you can meter your runoff to gauge medium acidity. I like to do it every now and again just to see where its at. If you deduced that based on your soil runoff it looks like your Phosphorus was locked out. Purpling stems and leaves that look like yours is a possible P deficiency. I've had it a few times. They looking great now Kingrow! Nice fix.

Kingrow1 said:

I think tonight i will measure one teaspoon and one gallon and the ppm that to see exactly what this recomendation leads to in terms of ppm. Before then lets clear somthing up, a gallon in imperial measurements is 4.5 litres but in US measurements it is 3.8 litres. I doubt this would make the biggest of differences but which are we going for.

Also one teaspoon over here is 6ml and a US teaspoon is 5ml. Am i going with the US version or what?

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Is canada the same measurement as you?

Are you imperial measurements max? I have though futher and will do one level teaspoon to 4 litres. Should be an accurate enough reading or be it in the ball park and a workable figure. Keeps it close to the US and imperial measurements and covers the one teaspoon a gallon recomendations.

Shwagbag - I am getting purple stems from the word go, soil has plenty of nutes in it and i use biobizz grow and bloom. Whatever the deficiency it is fixed with cal/mag or dolomite lime and epsom salts in my case. I will always take this purpling to mean these things and any deficiency would purely be down to lockout I just want to work with the soil i have, biobizz grow and bloom for NPK, lime and epsom for cal/mag, maxicrop for the macros nothing else. This alone is five amendments for my soil and covers every nutrient possible. After i ppm 1 gallon with 1 teaspoon of epsom salts a lot more will be revealed.

This 1 teaspoon a gallon sounds more like a one off fix for mag problems and since i administer with every watering i will simply reduce the amount.

Weird question but are you pots on a cold floor?

No and the temp of my room the grow room is in is very ambient!lol! On a carpeted floor. I know the dangers of a cold floor, had that over winter and is what finished me of. Pots hardly ever dried and hit temps under 10c most days. Purpling of the leaves was quite noticable and plants just stopped growing. Was obvious i close up shop or spend loads on the heating bills so i closed up!lol! I run at night times to avoid the high day time temps. About 20c at home most days and rises to 22/25 with lights on 25 being a very hot night.

The newest plant i showed pics of is kicking ass but the rest need some work. I have another ready for the flower room in a week but it still hasn't totally sorted itself yet but i haven't upped the mag with a few plants yet and waiting till they need a watering. Plants responded very well to calcium and hoping the same to magnesium. There will be no more improvement left if the mag works and feel like the next month will just be fine tuning the grow, hopefully.

Won't be till another 4 hours that i post the ppm of the tsp of epson in a gallon of water.

The answer to the question how much epsom salts is one teaspoon per gallon - and the answer is between 250 and 300 ppm. Just done it now.

Also had a plant that wouldn't go past 6.4pH no matter how i flushed it, i gave it some more powdered lime in with the flush to hopefully bring the pH up before i chop it. Ph has caused flowering to elongate by three weeks. Next plant is looking amazing though, 3 weeks till harvest and smells like grapefruit, little has gone wrong with this plant and was the first to get lime in the soil as well as a decent amount watered in on the first watering. Ph is holding at 6.6/6.7 nicely and just given it 300ppm of mag, 1ml/litre maxicrop and 2ml a litre of biobizz bloom.

I really think plants can take a decent amount of dolomite lime and mag with little bad effects. I will not be so shy with it in the future.

Kingrow1 said:

How much is like too much i guess the question would be. I guess people would be hesitant about adding extra lime to the suggested dose 1tbs/gallon soil because it would be hard to do anything to correct an overdose once mixed in with the soil? So just how much would be too much per gallon of soil?

Do you think i flushed and corrected pH and ppm right? Also do you think adding 100ppm mag and 400ppm biobizz grow would be acceptable after a flush?

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sulphur or aluminum sulfate can be used to lower ph. But if the medium contains alot of free lime then even these things will help little. And you all keep saying 'lime'. Are you talking calcitic, dolomitic, hydrated, a blend of calcitic and dolomitic(which is what you find in most garden limes)? Just wondering because reaction times do vary................
And it seems Max is the new copy/paste king on riu......hobby went from a closet to a whole house to getting yet another house. LMFAO.............

Talking garden lime which is dolomite lime which is fine grade and 50% passes through a fine 150mn sieve, this is then futher pestle and mortared down by me to the finest powder i can get.

I am sorry for the confusion but surely you are confused, all reactions with lime and soil take place as soon as it gets wet! The fact that one lime takes longer to work than another is merely the observations of when the lime has reacted enough to actually hold or shift the pH in the soil! All lime start it chemical reactions straight away, some is faster and some is slower, surface area has somthing to do with it as well.

Do you think lime just sits there for a month and then thinks hey i will randomly start a chemical reaction now that i have been sitting in wet soil for a month! No it starts as soon as soil and water is mixed with it, you just dont technically see it working till enough of these reactions have built up to counteract the pH. Think max pointed this out before but hey maybe you were too busy reading the copy and paste sections!lol!

I personally see my fine powdered dolomitic lime work straight away but after a lot of research and some very keen members input i realise that this is only the calcium and not the magnesium which reacts so quick, hence i am still left with a mag deficiency even with the lime(fine powdered dolomite).

Tell me garden lime takes a while to work but mine works over night if i powder it, the fact that i still have magnesium deficiencies correlates to the scientific knowledge availabe on google, which i will not copy and paste, but which states that in dolomitic lime calcium is released quite quickly but the magnesium part of it is released more slower.

This thread is mainly for the peat growers and those with new pH/ec pens like me. Hoped this has helped a little and this thread must be close to being finished, i and others have found it informative and a real eye opener to some of the more technical issues surrounding soil growing. Any more input before we kill the thread?

Earth Juices Microblast works well for magnesium deficencies. It alot like CalMag just without the calcium. Or as you already know epsoms salts is a water soluble source of magnesium so you can drench or foliar feed it. And your purple stems could possibly be from too much phosphorous causing nitrogen uptake to be inhibited...a pretty common issue actually......

Yer i hear you about the purple stems, taken me a long time to turn them green! It is just stress from the pH or mag regardless of what deficiency it resmbles, i dose with lime and water with epsom salts and it dissapears, at this point my plant has acess to a lot of good nutes in the soil so no deficiency. I am not looking to add nutes to solve the purple stems as i already solved them with some calcium and magnesium. Please don't tell me i got a nute deficiency, i probably had one for years but all along it was the pH so i sorted this not added ferts.

I bet a lot of people have pH issues but without a pH pen they would never realise it, a big give away is the word 'PEAT'.