So You Want Your Country Back?

MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
FlyLikeAnEagle said:
So basically you're saying its ok for a company to spread untrue propaganda and manipulate the system at the expense of every person in the country because they are simply trying to save their jobs. Gotcha.
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The only PROVEN untrue propaganda I've heard so far has come directly from the mouth of the President. For example, saying he's never been a proponent of the single payer system, then we actually get to see a speech he delivered where he calls himself a proponent of that very system. Or how there will be no rationing (you believe that?), no taxes on anyone below 250k, 200k, 150k and so on, or how no one will be forced into the government option, so what if it says exactly that in the first 20 pages of the bill. If you lose your current health care, it CLEARLY states you MUST accept the government plan. Yeah, THEY'RE the ones spreading propaganda... LOL.

How dare they point out established facts and statements about this administrations ultimate goals. So what if they are only showing these LIARS contradicting themselves on video and audio. The ONLY, let me say that again, THE ONLY assurance you can point to (despite all the facts to the contrary, not to mention the actual bill itself) as to what will happen or not happen is the words of an individual who has in a very short time, lied to this country so many times it's starting to look like it's the only core value he possesses.

Sheesh.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
The only PROVEN untrue propaganda I've heard so far has come directly from the mouth of the President. For example, saying he's never been a proponent of the single payer system, then we actually get to see a speech he delivered where he calls himself a proponent of that very system.
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Look at what he said again:

"If I were designing a system from scratch, I would probably go ahead with a single-payer system,” said then-Senator Obama. “I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14 percent of its gross national product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody."
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We are not starting from scratch. If that was the case we wold be able to come up with a much better system. Just because he would like to see a system that there is hospitals that decide everything and everyone is taken care of, has nothing to do with this bill, which has nothing to do with single payer. So since we are staying with the system in hand, it would make sense that it would not be a single payer system, which face it everyone is trying to pretend like this is.

Or how there will be no rationing (you believe that?), no taxes on anyone below 250k, 200k, 150k and so on, or how no one will be forced into the government option, so what if it says exactly that in the first 20 pages of the bill. If you lose your current health care, it CLEARLY states you MUST accept the government plan. Yeah, THEY'RE the ones spreading propaganda... LOL.
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I love that you want to exclude what is in the bill. But anyway if you lose your health insurance (which happens all the time now) you can chose anything that you want. It is not going to just be the governments plan out there. It does not "CLEARLY states you MUST accept the government plan". So you are the one spreading the propaganda.

How dare they point out established facts and statements about this administrations ultimate goals. So what if they are only showing these LIARS contradicting themselves on video and audio. The ONLY, let me say that again, THE ONLY assurance you can point to (despite all the facts to the contrary, not to mention the actual bill itself) as to what will happen or not happen is the words of an individual who has in a very short time, lied to this country so many times it's starting to look like it's the only core value he possesses.
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Misquoting, taking things out of context, flat out lies, pretending to be 'citizens' when really they are lobby websites in disguise, creating a state of panic with all these falsities is why it is bullshit. They are not mostly using facts anymore, there may be some, but people don't want the truth anymore, they want to spout how someone is Hitler and leave it at that.

All the bullshit that gets tossed out about being a socialist, commy, nazi, tyrant, is all lies. And it doesn't matter to you because you will only see what you want, even if it is mostly untrue and makes the country more divided for no reason other than to get republicans elected in '10 which really doesn't change a damn thing.
 
lopezri

lopezri

Well-Known Member
I truly do believe that Ronald Reagan was the last truly American loving President of the United States.

We've seen them all have problems. But most of the problems are overblown issues that don't really matter to the American people as far as how their lives are affected, etc. It's just when the media gets a hold of these "stories" and overbloats them that they become issues. The last four presidents that our country has had have all had ulterior motives to helping run the country and make good decisions for the benefit of the people. And it's not just the president that has sucked during the administrations of the last 4 presidents (and yes, I'm referring all the way back to Bush I). All of our government bodies have taken their elected positions and placed them and themselves into a "royalty" position of sorts. They've forgotten that they have been elected to represent "us", not be authoritarians over us.

The best solution for all this mess to get cleared up. . . and it never will as long as we continue to elect lawyers into the house and senate (this includes both Democtrats and Republicans alike), is to get TERM LIMITS and TORTE REFORM passed. WE ALL (the regular working citizens of the U.S.) want that and we deserve it but for some reason our "representatives" forgot that they are supposed to take care of us.
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
Look at what he said again:

I don't need to look at THAT quote again because that isn't the quote from then senator Obama I was referring to. I was referring to the speech where he said specifically "I am a proponent of the single payer system". Then we hear him say this month "I never said I was a proponent of the single payer health care system" That's a lie...no debate needed. As hard as you try hannimal, you can't divert our attention from the facts.



I love that you want to exclude what is in the bill. But anyway if you lose your health insurance (which happens all the time now) you can chose anything that you want. It is not going to just be the governments plan out there. It does not "CLEARLY states you MUST accept the government plan". So you are the one spreading the propaganda.

Actually it does CLEARLY state you must take the government plan if you are dropped by your current employer or insurance. No choice, no options...thats EXACTLY what it says, it's in the first twenty pages so it's not exactly hard to find. I'd paste it in here, but you're reading it anyways...RIGHT? Or are we going to fall back on the laughable argument..."this isnt the final bill" that the left keeps using every time they are cornered. Let me say it again so no one is misled by hanimmal, it CLEARLY STATES EXACTLY THAT. Don't believe me, and certainly don't believe hanimmal...read it for yourself...anyone can get through the first twenty pages.


Misquoting, taking things out of context, flat out lies, pretending to be 'citizens' when really they are lobby websites in disguise, creating a state of panic with all these falsities is why it is bullshit. They are not mostly using facts anymore, there may be some, but people don't want the truth anymore, they want to spout how someone is Hitler and leave it at that.

You ARE referring to the proponents of ObamaCare I assume. Since everything listed in this paragraph is EXACTLY what they are doing and have done in recent history...Bush is Hitler...Bush is a Nazi...Flat out lies...pretending to be citizens when really they are lobby websites in disguise, LOL...Creating a state of panic to get their agenda passed...remember stimulus...lol, this is way too easy, not using facts anymore...yup that certainly applies. Wow, Ann Coulter is absolutely correct "Watch what the liberals accuse you of doing and that is exactly what they are up to"....NEVER FAILS.

All the bullshit that gets tossed out about being a socialist, commy, nazi, tyrant, is all lies. And it doesn't matter to you because you will only see what you want, even if it is mostly untrue and makes the country more divided for no reason other than to get republicans elected in '10 which really doesn't change a damn thing.
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Like most progressives you miss the point on the nazi references, they aren't saying he's going to kill millions (most likely just thousands), they are talking about the fascist beginnings of the nazi party. While there are nutjobs, rascists and the like that unfortunately are on the side opposing the current administration, most of us are simply against the policies. And frankly, I hate when I'm forced to defend the Republicans. Most of the politicians are either flat out socialists or socialist Lite. It's not even a question of whether government control of major segments of our economy is their goal, it's just a question of how much and how quickly.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I don't need to look at THAT quote again because that isn't the quote from then senator Obama I was referring to. I was referring to the speech where he said specifically "I am a proponent of the single payer system". Then we hear him say this month "I never said I was a proponent of the single payer health care system" That's a lie...no debate needed. As hard as you try hannimal, you can't divert our attention from the facts.
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You don't seem to get it, shit changes. I no longer want to be a fire truck when I grow up. And with this bill that is not rewriting the system his quotes on how he would like to rewrite the entire system in a perfect world shouldn't matter. People can have opinions.

If I am talking to a group of teachers about what I would like to do with the education system, it does not mean that if I was in a position to do it , that is what I would be able to do. Your grasping at straws.

Actually it does CLEARLY state you must take the government plan if you are dropped by your current employer or insurance. No choice, no options...thats EXACTLY what it says, it's in the first twenty pages so it's not exactly hard to find. I'd paste it in here, but you're reading it anyways...RIGHT? Or are we going to fall back on the laughable argument..."this isnt the final bill" that the left keeps using every time they are cornered. Let me say it again so no one is misled by hanimmal, it CLEARLY STATES EXACTLY THAT. Don't believe me, and certainly don't believe hanimmal...read it for yourself...anyone can get through the first twenty pages.
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That is not in the one that I had already read. And your 'laughable argument' is usally due to the fact that there are multiple bills out there. Why not tell us the section number of the one you are talking about.

The bill says that you have the choice to get whatever insurance you want, and if you cannot afford them the government plan can get subsidized so you can afford it. If you can afford it and chose to not have any insurance government or private, then you see the 2.5% tax for being irresponsible.

You ARE referring to the proponents of ObamaCare I assume. Since everything listed in this paragraph is EXACTLY what they are doing and have done in recent history...Bush is Hitler...Bush is a Nazi...Flat out lies...pretending to be citizens when really they are lobby websites in disguise, LOL...Creating a state of panic to get their agenda passed...remember stimulus...lol, this is way too easy, not using facts anymore...yup that certainly applies. Wow, Ann Coulter is absolutely correct "Watch what the liberals accuse you of doing and that is exactly what they are up to"....NEVER FAILS.
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Where does Bush come from? Are you saying the bullshit that we did the last 8 years is wrong, but when you do it this term it is ok? What the hell kind of argument is that? As I had said many times it is bullshit what we did to Bush. But to turn around and act like it is ok to do it when it is someone else but not your team is about par for course on this site.

Like most progressives you miss the point on the nazi references, they aren't saying he's going to kill millions (most likely just thousands), they are talking about the fascist beginnings of the nazi party. While there are nutjobs, rascists and the like that unfortunately are on the side opposing the current administration, most of us are simply against the policies. And frankly, I hate when I'm forced to defend the Republicans. Most of the politicians are either flat out socialists or socialist Lite. It's not even a question of whether government control of major segments of our economy is their goal, it's just a question of how much and how quickly.
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No the point of calling him a Nazi is not some obscure reference to all politicians. It is a way to dehumanize the person it is being attached to and make them into a evil character that is easier to hate. Politicians lie, and are looking out for themselves, I get that. But to call them socialists is wrong. It is just the way we have done things for the last couple hundred years. We are Americans, and this is how we do things for better or worse.

And I agree with your statement about defending republicans. Because that is the way I feel about Obama. I don't want to constantly sit here and try to explain why shit is not what is being said by bloggers and fake 'news' casters, but it is just the lies are being pumped in non-stop. Just like you had to deal with for the last 6 years (really Bush was off limits after 9/11 it wasn't until '03 that shit could be said about him.

Fox news is pumping all kinds of lies, because it is scarier to do that then to actually bore the shit out of people with the facts.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
You don't seem to get it, shit changes. I no longer want to be a fire truck when I grow up. And with this bill that is not rewriting the system his quotes on how he would like to rewrite the entire system in a perfect world shouldn't matter. People can have opinions.

If I am talking to a group of teachers about what I would like to do with the education system, it does not mean that if I was in a position to do it , that is what I would be able to do. Your grasping at straws.



That is not in the one that I had already read. And your 'laughable argument' is usally due to the fact that there are multiple bills out there. Why not tell us the section number of the one you are talking about.

The bill says that you have the choice to get whatever insurance you want, and if you cannot afford them the government plan can get subsidized so you can afford it. If you can afford it and chose to not have any insurance government or private, then you see the 2.5% tax for being irresponsible.



Where does Bush come from? Are you saying the bullshit that we did the last 8 years is wrong, but when you do it this term it is ok? What the hell kind of argument is that? As I had said many times it is bullshit what we did to Bush. But to turn around and act like it is ok to do it when it is someone else but not your team is about par for course on this site.
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No the point of calling him a Nazi is not some obscure reference to all politicians. It is a way to dehumanize the person it is being attached to and make them into a evil character that is easier to hate. Politicians lie, and are looking out for themselves, I get that. But to call them socialists is wrong. It is just the way we have done things for the last couple hundred years. We are Americans, and this is how we do things for better or worse.

And I agree with your statement about defending republicans. Because that is the way I feel about Obama. I don't want to constantly sit here and try to explain why shit is not what is being said by bloggers and fake 'news' casters, but it is just the lies are being pumped in non-stop. Just like you had to deal with for the last 6 years (really Bush was off limits after 9/11 it wasn't until '03 that shit could be said about him.

Fox news is pumping all kinds of lies, because it is scarier to do that then to actually bore the shit out of people with the facts.
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Trust academia to miss the point completely in stating that his policies are those of a Nazi (Socialists/Fascists) or of Socialism (USSR/Communists). Trust an imbecile to be so confused as to believe that there is actually a difference between Nazism and Socialism, and to believe that when the right rails against some one as being a NAZI we are arguing that they are evil like Hitler.

The argument being made is that like the NAZIs these imbeciles want to establish government/state control of the markets, and thus deprive everyone of their freedoms. If you are incapable of understanding this, then perhaps you'll do everyone the favor of not responding so we do not have to explain to you repeatedly that Socialism and Nazism are synonyms, and that there is no need to bring the holocaust into the discussion.

Though just based on your arguments, one would imagine that you, in your delusional state, would argue that we can not call him a socialist either (despite the fact that he admits that he is) because the Socialists (aside from the NAZIs) were responsible for 60 Million + deaths and made the Holocaust look simplistic by comparison.

The Soviets effectively waged economic war against the middle class Kuluks of Ukraine, and the Ukrainian people themselves, leading to 30 - 50 Million deaths in the Ukraine.

The Chinese effectively committed mass murder trying to develop industrially and killed 30 - 50 Million of their own citizens during the great leap backwards.

The arguments that by tying him to Nazism that we are trying to tie him to evil is a immature argument ignorant of the facts. Just his socialist stance on a great many things ties him into the evil perpetuated by the state against its own citizens and subjects.

My advice, pry your head out of your ass or STFU.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
You are the biggest ass of them all, because your up on your high horse trying to justify all this bs.

Trust that you would sit here and say that a single insurance plan and some regulations are on the same level. Your trying to attach these buzz words to something that is not even close to the same. No one is trying to control the entire system. The fact that the systems are failing is proof enough that something does need to change them for the better, what that is is not socialism. It is private industry that has regulations to not screw society at large.

The argument being made is that like the NAZIs these imbeciles want to establish government/state control of the markets, and thus deprive everyone of their freedoms.
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Maybe for you since your incapable of understanding reality and have already decided that America has been the equivalent of the USSR since the first amendment was added to the constitution. The fact that 100% of anything will not work, private or public. You would just be replacing one evil for another.

If you are incapable of understanding this, then perhaps you'll do everyone the favor of not responding so we do not have to explain to you repeatedly that Socialism and Nazism are synonyms, and that there is no need to bring the holocaust into the discussion.
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Then you should not bring it up. You are the ones that are bringing up these stupid and misplaced buzz words to make your side seem more just.

Though just based on your arguments, one would imagine that you, in your delusional state, would argue that we can not call him a socialist either (despite the fact that he admits that he is) because the Socialists (aside from the NAZIs) were responsible for 60 Million + deaths and made the Holocaust look simplistic by comparison.

The Soviets effectively waged economic war against the middle class Kuluks of Ukraine, and the Ukrainian people themselves, leading to 30 - 50 Million deaths in the Ukraine.

The Chinese effectively committed mass murder trying to develop industrially and killed 30 - 50 Million of their own citizens during the great leap backwards.
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1. No he didn't "Admit to being a socialist", I take it your mean the Joe the plumber shit, saying that someone will have to pay more if they make more is not the same as saying that everyone needs to be paid the same and forced to work in an allotted job that the government picks out for you, and that the workers should own everything.

2. You can call him whatever you want, even if it is wrong and makes you look like the idiot you continue to prove yourself to be.

The arguments that by tying him to Nazism that we are trying to tie him to evil is a immature argument ignorant of the facts. Just his socialist stance on a great many things ties him into the evil perpetuated by the state against its own citizens and subjects.
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More the issue is that your insanely broad definition of what socialism is, since it basically entails anything that you disagree with.

The same way you try to tie taxes to slavery. You are so far into the realm of nut baggery with this that is it almost funny.

My advice, pry your head out of your ass or STFU.
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I am not flexible enough to have my head up my ass, but with all the mental gymnastics that you perform to try to equate stamps to nazism or taxes with slavery I can see how you would think that it is possible.

And I won't STFU as long as the stupidity that you continue to pump out gets spewed. Because unlike you I don't look at everything as taking away my rights, I know that there is no way that I am going to be forced to stop.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
The bill says that you have the choice to get whatever insurance you want, and if you cannot afford them the government plan can get subsidized so you can afford it. If you can afford it and chose to not have any insurance government or private, then you see the 2.5% tax for being irresponsible.
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So what happens if I refuse to carry insurance AND I refuse to pay their 2.5% tax?? Do you suppose they will arrest me? Perhaps garnish my wages or take my tax returns ( I always end up paying in though)

C'mon Hanimmal, defend the government here and try to make up some story how the Gubbermint is not going to FORCE me to do one or the other. You see there is no choice, your being FORCED into it. They might as well hold a M-16 rifle to your head while you sign on the dotted line.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
So what happens if I refuse to carry insurance AND I refuse to pay their 2.5% tax?? Do you suppose they will arrest me? Perhaps garnish my wages or take my tax returns ( I always end up paying in though)

C'mon Hanimmal, defend the government here and try to make up some story how the Gubbermint is not going to FORCE me to do one or the other. You see there is no choice, your being FORCED into it. They might as well hold a M-16 rifle to your head while you sign on the dotted line.
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I take it with how hard your fighting this that you do not have insurance now.

There is a choice, lots of choices in fact. You just don't like them.
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
lopezri said:
So do you always just use personal insults and personal attacks as an argument when you can't defend YOUR argument? Let me guess. . . you must be a liberal?
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Actually, the die hard conservatives are mostly the ones dropping the insults. Cracker, TBT, et al are easily the worst. Easily. Both have called me names numerous times - even in private messages.
 
lopezri

lopezri

Well-Known Member
jrh72582 said:
Actually, the die hard conservatives are mostly the ones dropping the insults. Cracker, TBT, et al are easily the worst. Easily. Both have called me names numerous times - even in private messages.
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Sorry to hear that. Why can't we all just get along?

Just kidding. I love to hear all the sides of the argument. I know I'm not great at arguing the points because I don't always know all the facts (who does?) but it's fun to try to learn more.

Sometimes some words get tossed around here and there but that's just in the heat of the argument. What's frustrating is when somebody doesn't even have an idea about a point they're arguing so they just say stuff like "well your just a dumb conservative (or liberal or libertarian, etc.) and you're mama should have eaten her kids" or some dumb stuff like that.
 
spinninggorilla

spinninggorilla

Member
It not that we want our country back, its that we want to keep our freedom. Little by little big gov keeps taking more and more choices away from us. Soon we will be robots for them. We already are, who's paying for all these taxes we are. We are just modern day slaves for the gov. Liberals seem to be the easy ones to be brain washed into doing the dirty work. Get off this looking back at Bush crap you had your 8 years to complain, now its your boy screwing up because he has no balls to say what he really means. I could care less if he was black or not, in my book he is a radical trying to sweep this great country away.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I take it with how hard your fighting this that you do not have insurance now.

There is a choice, lots of choices in fact. You just don't like them.
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You would be very wrong there, I have ALWAYS carried insurance, never went a single day in my adult life without health insurance. I haven't used it much, maybe $2,000 worth over the last 20 years, and have paid in many times that in premiums.
 
R

ReelBusy

Active Member
NoDrama said:
So what happens if I refuse to carry insurance AND I refuse to pay their 2.5% tax?? Do you suppose they will arrest me? Perhaps garnish my wages or take my tax returns ( I always end up paying in though)

C'mon Hanimmal, defend the government here and try to make up some story how the Gubbermint is not going to FORCE me to do one or the other. You see there is no choice, your being FORCED into it. They might as well hold a M-16 rifle to your head while you sign on the dotted line.
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The government says, for the safety of all, you must have car insurance too.
Are cars more important than people?
 
R

ReelBusy

Active Member
jrh72582 said:
Actually, the die hard conservatives are mostly the ones dropping the insults. Cracker, TBT, et al are easily the worst. Easily. Both have called me names numerous times - even in private messages.
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name calling is all they have when the facts are against them.
 
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