So You Want Your Country Back?

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ReelBusy

Active Member
TheBrutalTruth
your part of your reply "kicking me out" of the country shows what an anti American attitude you have.
Your country your rules?
Wrong.
The rest of your comment is irrelevant.
 
purplekitty7772008

purplekitty7772008

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Once again just another person who blames the opposite political party for all the wrong in the world. Its not cut and dried like that, BOTH D and R have fucked up plenty in the past. They will continue to fuck up in the present and the future. So many folks are completely blinded by their parties ideals that they don't see whats really happening. This country is starting to go into the shitter, both parties are against the Citizens of this nation. Both parties want total control of the populace, the economy and world hegemony. There are so very few politicians who really give a rats ass about "Us", they are only there to satisfy their greed and justify their bloody deeds.
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Exactly!!!

+rep.

When will America learn that the politicians and the government
don't give a shit about you or your family?

It doesn't matter what party you claim, in the end, those
money grubbing bastards fuck us over anyway.

So I don't support either one.

I'm....an independent...what now bitches!!! :fire:

hehe
 
R

ReelBusy

Active Member
BadDog40 said:
Some of you right wingers are so out of touch with reality its almost scary.
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Reality is not their desire.
1953 is their, no wait...1853 is their desire.
Women could not vote.
Blacks were still slaves and counted as 3/5ths of a person.
No child labor laws or unions existed to protect workers rights and safety.

But America has ALWAYS been perfect right Conservatives?
Wrong, this country and our ruling document The Constitution are fallible and correctable.
That's the beauty part.

Whether it's civil rights or Prohibition we learn from our mistakes and we correct them, many times over the vociferous protests of those upset by change in the status quo.

The racists didn't care for the civil rights act and sexists were threatened by women's suffrage.

So this time it's the rich insurance companies paying groups to stir it up.
I'd be afraid if I was them too.
I'd spend every $$ to stop this because the status quo is wrong and unfair. They cheat people every day as a standard business model to profit from human suffering.

No one's life should be ruined economically because they or their family got sick. Period.

At the end of the day we must do what is best to protect and help the poorest among us in our society or the greatness we claim in this country every day will be undeserved.










 
I

ilkhan

Well-Known Member
The Constitution is as damn near a perfect human document as you will ever see.
We ought to start following it.
We would be alot better off.

Slavery was bad ok we get that.
Killing all the native americans was wrong we get that.

That is not what is at stake.
Whats at stake is freedom.
Not freedom from bills.
Freedom from government restrictions.
Freedom to come and go and do as we please.
With our money, our time, and our property.

Statists want us all to fit in their little mold.
Statists want equality of outcome.
Statists place people in groups.
Statists seek power to regulate property.
Statists want power to confiscate wealth.

Now unforunately we have few good examples of conservitive thought to draw on.
The Conservitives you seem to be talking about are just Statists claiming conservative status.
A real Conservative is anti- war. (Conservatives always were elected to end wars)
A real Conservative is small government. (Intelectually honest conservatives are pro drug legalization, IMO)
A real Conservative beleives in free markets. (Rather then state run monopolies)

BTW health care is a service not a right.
No one has a right to force others to serve him.
Even under color of law.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
The Constitution is as damn near a perfect human document as you will ever see.
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I like the constitution, but it is over 220 years old, and only took a couple weeks to write. Was it great yeah, but you almost have a religious fervor about it. Take it for what it is. A set of laws that had to deal with a lot of compromise and understanding that they needed big business to prosper, with a good amount of distrust of everyone.

But they didn't even know about a cotton gin, much less about grenade launchers or nuclear bombs, internet, being able to travel 100 mph on what is essentially a horse.

You don't think that if they would have had all that information they would have not wrote things a bit different?

All that being said, I am all for smaller government, legalizing drugs, anti-war, and free markets.

But with smaller government I do think that it falls apart when dealing with roads, electrical grids, education, essentially anything that helps a country to become more porsperous, which health care does fall under.

With anti-war it only goes as far as aggressive behavior. If someone came after our country in anyway game on.

Free markets will always end up overstepping their bounds and screwing over the people that rely on them. Just like anything. That is why I do feel that they need to have guidelines and regulations so that the people don't get bilked.

And I also feel that the government should get out of the peoples lives. But at the same time I have no problem with them monitoring for terrorist activities to stop them before they happen. As long as we don't arrest before the people about to commit the crime are about to act and at that time they would have all the evidence on their person needed to convict.


The issue usually divides everyone with most these issues is at what point is too much. If we completely just follow the constitution the country would fall apart because we need too much to do day to day business in 2009 than we did in the late 1700's. The world is a much different place, and where we should all meet is hard to figure out because we cannot even agree on the best toilet paper.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I like the constitution, but it is over 220 years old, and only took a couple weeks to write. Was it great yeah, but you almost have a religious fervor about it. Take it for what it is. A set of laws that had to deal with a lot of compromise and understanding that they needed big business to prosper, with a good amount of distrust of everyone.

But they didn't even know about a cotton gin, much less about grenade launchers or nuclear bombs, internet, being able to travel 100 mph on what is essentially a horse.

You don't think that if they would have had all that information they would have not wrote things a bit different?

All that being said, I am all for smaller government, legalizing drugs, anti-war, and free markets.

But with smaller government I do think that it falls apart when dealing with roads, electrical grids, education, essentially anything that helps a country to become more porsperous, which health care does fall under.

With anti-war it only goes as far as aggressive behavior. If someone came after our country in anyway game on.

Free markets will always end up overstepping their bounds and screwing over the people that rely on them. Just like anything. That is why I do feel that they need to have guidelines and regulations so that the people don't get bilked.

And I also feel that the government should get out of the peoples lives. But at the same time I have no problem with them monitoring for terrorist activities to stop them before they happen. As long as we don't arrest before the people about to commit the crime are about to act and at that time they would have all the evidence on their person needed to convict.


The issue usually divides everyone with most these issues is at what point is too much. If we completely just follow the constitution the country would fall apart because we need too much to do day to day business in 2009 than we did in the late 1700's. The world is a much different place, and where we should all meet is hard to figure out because we cannot even agree on the best toilet paper.
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No need, let the states govern themselves and get the federal government out of the way. Each state will respond to the desires of its citizens, and move in different directions, and thus everyone will be able to determine for themselves what doesn't work, and what does.

The states that achieve the system that actually works, will of course see immigration from other states, and happier citizens. The states that fail, well, one only need to look (and laugh) at California to see the fate that lies in store for them.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
ReelBusy said:
Reality is not their desire.
1953 is their, no wait...1853 is their desire.
Women could not vote.
Blacks were still slaves and counted as 3/5ths of a person.
No child labor laws or unions existed to protect workers rights and safety.

But America has ALWAYS been perfect right Conservatives?
Wrong, this country and our ruling document The Constitution are fallible and correctable.
That's the beauty part.

Whether it's civil rights or Prohibition we learn from our mistakes and we correct them, many times over the vociferous protests of those upset by change in the status quo.

The racists didn't care for the civil rights act and sexists were threatened by women's suffrage.

So this time it's the rich insurance companies paying groups to stir it up.
I'd be afraid if I was them too.
I'd spend every $$ to stop this because the status quo is wrong and unfair. They cheat people every day as a standard business model to profit from human suffering.

No one's life should be ruined economically because they or their family got sick. Period.

At the end of the day we must do what is best to protect and help the poorest among us in our society or the greatness we claim in this country every day will be undeserved.
Click to expand...
And what gives you the right to enslave any one else through the coercive power of the state and its ability to steal through force?

The system you clearly support is a system that can be best described as a system that requires involuntary servitude from a great many people for the benefit of a few. That is, it is a system of slavery. How can you reconcile your hatred of slavery with the fact that you clearly support it?
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
ReelBusy said:
So this time it's the rich insurance companies paying groups to stir it up.
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I'm really curious about this statement. What proof can you provide that shows the insurance companies are spending money to "stir" things up? What groups are they paying?
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
I'm really curious about this statement. What proof can you provide that shows the insurance companies are spending money to "stir" things up? What groups are they paying?
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The lobbyists are setting up a lot of websites that are directing people to do the town halls.

Rachel Maddow (who I personally dislike) has actually done a good job reporting this. She has followed the people who own these websites (like angryrenter.com and many many others) and followed them to the likes of people like Dick Army and many other republican lobbyists, which links it to the insurance companies.
 
MexicanWarlord420

MexicanWarlord420

Active Member
Minnestoner said:
And look back at the Clinton era when money and loans were handed out to all the people that couldnt afford a home and look at what happened. Oh and when Clinton decided to hand over nuclear plans to N Korea. What a wonderful idea that was. And Clinton used the military more than any other prez.... so im gonna ask...whats your point?????

Liberals are all about taxing everything and everyone dude. This dude i would guess "you" helped vote in is spending "OUR" money without thinking it through. And by the way i do believe the dems ran the house and senate for the majority of the time Bush was in office and your liberal friends in washington authorized these wars your complaining about. Educate yourself before you spew!!!!
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There's so much wrong with this statement. Bush used way more military than clinton ever did, and democrats didn't get control of congress until 2006. The rest was fringe lunatic shit not worth responding to.
 
FlyLikeAnEagle

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
ViRedd said:
I'm really curious about this statement. What proof can you provide that shows the insurance companies are spending money to "stir" things up? What groups are they paying?
Click to expand...

Here ya go...

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/major-health-insurance-company-urges-employees-to-attend-tea-parties.php

At least one major insurer is urging its employees to participate in tea parties.

Last week, UnitedHealth Group--the second largest health insurance company in the country--sent out a letter to its employees urging them to call UHG's United for Health Reform Advocacy Hotline to speak with an advocacy specialist about health care reform. The advocacy specialist, according to the letter, is there to help UHG employees write personalized messages to elected officials, and to arm them with talking points to use at local events in order to better oppose the public health insurance option.
TPM has obtained the letter, which you can read here, but a UHG advocacy specialist was not willing to provide TPM with a copy.

However, a source who's insured by UHG--and who also obtained the letter--called the hotline on Tuesday and says the company directed him to an events list hosted by the right wing America's Independent Party, and suggested he attend an anti-health care reform tea party sponsored by religious fundamentalist Dave Daubenmire, scheduled for today outside the office of Blue Dog Rep. Zack Space (D-OH).

UHG was not immediately available for comment.

Some conservatives have used the fact that industry groups nominally support health care reform to attack liberals and Democrats for blaming town hall disruptions and other public displays of opposition to health care reform on those same groups. Well, as you can see, it's perfectly possible for industry to have it both ways.
 
BadDog40

BadDog40

Well-Known Member
FlyLikeAnEagle said:
Here ya go...

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/major-health-insurance-company-urges-employees-to-attend-tea-parties.php

At least one major insurer is urging its employees to participate in tea parties.

Last week, UnitedHealth Group--the second largest health insurance company in the country--sent out a letter to its employees urging them to call UHG's United for Health Reform Advocacy Hotline to speak with an advocacy specialist about health care reform. The advocacy specialist, according to the letter, is there to help UHG employees write personalized messages to elected officials, and to arm them with talking points to use at local events in order to better oppose the public health insurance option.
TPM has obtained the letter, which you can read here, but a UHG advocacy specialist was not willing to provide TPM with a copy.

However, a source who's insured by UHG--and who also obtained the letter--called the hotline on Tuesday and says the company directed him to an events list hosted by the right wing America's Independent Party, and suggested he attend an anti-health care reform tea party sponsored by religious fundamentalist Dave Daubenmire, scheduled for today outside the office of Blue Dog Rep. Zack Space (D-OH).

UHG was not immediately available for comment.

Some conservatives have used the fact that industry groups nominally support health care reform to attack liberals and Democrats for blaming town hall disruptions and other public displays of opposition to health care reform on those same groups. Well, as you can see, it's perfectly possible for industry to have it both ways.
Click to expand...

Good find. Amazing the shit that goes on in this country. All you people that spout off about govt taking over should obviously be more worried about corporations taking over because its already happened. Corporations have much more motive to spy on you, track your every move, and influence lawmakers to pass laws to imprison more people (they run the prisons), screw you on your credit cards and bank accounts, keep people sick, push for wars, etc. and the above post is a prime example. Top conservatives are bought and sold by corporations to sit around and figure out how to spin the shit to the ignorant, usually through fear tactics. Its no mistake the top 1% of this country went from owning 5% of the wealth to owning almost 20% just during the past 8 years under Bush. Its going to continue to get worse and we have republicans to thank.
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
BadDog40 said:
Good find. Amazing the shit that goes on in this country. All you people that spout off about govt taking over should obviously be more worried about corporations taking over because its already happened. Corporations have much more motive to spy on you, track your every move, and influence lawmakers to pass laws to imprison more people (they run the prisons), screw you on your credit cards and bank accounts, keep people sick, push for wars, etc. and the above post is a prime example. Top conservatives are bought and sold by corporations to sit around and figure out how to spin the shit to the ignorant, usually through fear tactics. Its no mistake the top 1% of this country went from owning 5% of the wealth to owning almost 20% just during the past 8 years under Bush. Its going to continue to get worse and we have republicans to thank.
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Medicineman, is that you under a different username?
First off, even if the insurance industry were behind a majority of the town hallers (which they aren't), so what? They are responding to open calls for their destruction by Michelle Obama, and several Congressman and Senators. They are on record, video and audio, laughing with their constituents about how they are going to eliminate private insurance companies and go to a single payer system. Didn't see those vids, yeah you must ONLY be watching the MMM and websites like Moveon.org and MediaMatters. Sorry, you won't be seeing pesky facts like that around there.

Secondly, have you ever heard of ACORN? How about SEICU and similar union organizations that send their legions out to peddle their positions? How about the nationwide Craigslist ads soliciting people to go to town halls and stack the seats? Jesus, are you so deluded to think this tactic is something that wasn't started by the progressive movement. Or is it just that you're afraid of the opposition using your own tactics against you. Which by the way they aren't, these citizens that take time off from their JOBS and time away from their families are doing so because they can see where this is heading, even if you can't. Someday you're going to thank them, that is if you're still allowed that privilege.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
FlyLikeAnEagle said:
Here ya go...

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/major-health-insurance-company-urges-employees-to-attend-tea-parties.php

At least one major insurer is urging its employees to participate in tea parties.

Last week, UnitedHealth Group--the second largest health insurance company in the country--sent out a letter to its employees urging them to call UHG's United for Health Reform Advocacy Hotline to speak with an advocacy specialist about health care reform. The advocacy specialist, according to the letter, is there to help UHG employees write personalized messages to elected officials, and to arm them with talking points to use at local events in order to better oppose the public health insurance option.
TPM has obtained the letter, which you can read here, but a UHG advocacy specialist was not willing to provide TPM with a copy.

However, a source who's insured by UHG--and who also obtained the letter--called the hotline on Tuesday and says the company directed him to an events list hosted by the right wing America's Independent Party, and suggested he attend an anti-health care reform tea party sponsored by religious fundamentalist Dave Daubenmire, scheduled for today outside the office of Blue Dog Rep. Zack Space (D-OH).

UHG was not immediately available for comment.

Some conservatives have used the fact that industry groups nominally support health care reform to attack liberals and Democrats for blaming town hall disruptions and other public displays of opposition to health care reform on those same groups. Well, as you can see, it's perfectly possible for industry to have it both ways.
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I do believe that it is the right of a corporation to request that its employees fight to hold their jobs, and not be left unemployed by a colossal disasterous plan being pushed by imbecilic bureaucrats who have no interest in the true well being of the nation, but only being re-elected to their posts.

It can not be held irresponsible that UHC would want to ensure that its employees were aware, or taking an active role in what is going on in the economy. After all, unlike the jobs of the bureaucrats, it is the jobs of the UHC Employees that is being attacked.

This rambling on about how UHC is asking its employees to fight for their jobs, and thus doing something bad, is imbecilic. If it was the union that was urging the employees to fight for their right to have productive jobs in the private sector no doubt the moron that derided UHC's actions would be lauding the actions of the union.

This is a double standard that has no place in rational thought. Logic would indicate that UHC, by urging its employees to fight for their jobs, is actually doing something of service to its employees. Of course the imbecilic proponents of the Democrat's asinine proposals would seek to attack UHC, if only because it is not an action by the unions.
 
FlyLikeAnEagle

FlyLikeAnEagle

Well-Known Member
TheBrutalTruth said:
I do believe that it is the right of a corporation to request that its employees fight to hold their jobs, and not be left unemployed by a colossal disasterous plan being pushed by imbecilic bureaucrats who have no interest in the true well being of the nation, but only being re-elected to their posts.

It can not be held irresponsible that UHC would want to ensure that its employees were aware, or taking an active role in what is going on in the economy. After all, unlike the jobs of the bureaucrats, it is the jobs of the UHC Employees that is being attacked.

This rambling on about how UHC is asking its employees to fight for their jobs, and thus doing something bad, is imbecilic. If it was the union that was urging the employees to fight for their right to have productive jobs in the private sector no doubt the moron that derided UHC's actions would be lauding the actions of the union.

This is a double standard that has no place in rational thought. Logic would indicate that UHC, by urging its employees to fight for their jobs, is actually doing something of service to its employees. Of course the imbecilic proponents of the Democrat's asinine proposals would seek to attack UHC, if only because it is not an action by the unions.
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So basically you're saying its ok for a company to spread untrue propaganda and manipulate the system at the expense of every person in the country because they are simply trying to save their jobs. Gotcha.
 
TheBrutalTruth

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
FlyLikeAnEagle said:
So basically you're saying its ok for a company to spread untrue propaganda and manipulate the system at the expense of every person in the country because they are simply trying to save their jobs. Gotcha.
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Sounds like they are taking a page out of the union playbook, or the GM playbook, or the Oldman "Sucking" Sachs playbook, or the democrat playbook.

Besides, of the two, I think the jobs that UHC provides are infinitely more important than insuring the uninsured, many of which are uninsured by choice.

Don't forget that for each UHC job that there is likely another job in the local economy that depends on it. Then there are insurance brokers, and insurance agents that also depend on UHC. I think my estimate of millions of jobs lost is overly conservative, the real toll probably would make the failure of GM (if it had been allowed) look like nothing. The real figure might be more nearing 6 - 10 Million jobs.
 
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