Small Pots to Big. Why not Start Big?

ikeathesofa

ikeathesofa

Member
So, lots of responses, many seem to contradict some of the other responses. But the consensus seems to be that growing in small containers and transplanting up to ever larger containers produces the best results. Even though this seems somewhat contradictory to the mantra that states less stressed plants are better.

Thanks for all the responses guys. Much appreciated.

On a sad but unrelated note: the reason I haven't responded to posts much lately is that my cat spilled a glass of water on my computer the other night while I was sleeping. So far it seems like the cat probably turned my $800 laptop into a paperweight.
I took it apart and am drying it with a fan, but I don't have much hope. Hard to post without a computer.
 
ikeathesofa

ikeathesofa

Member
Vindicated said:
Great question ikeathesofa! I was reading everyone's reply and there are some good well thought out opinions here. However, on this topic, I agree with BBYY. If I had the money and space, I would prefer to grow all my plants in five gallon containers. The advantages for me would be less watering, less feeding, and less shock to the plant.

I don't agree with the poster who said it promotes foliage growth. Now I could be wrong, but it's my understanding that plant growth is mainly due two hormones in the plants, gibberellins and cytokinis, which are stimulated by the light cycle (e.g. root growth during the day, foliage at night). Someone else mentioned something about a higher risk of algae if you grow in a large container. I think this is only true in a medium that doesn't drain well or if the gardener habitually over waters their plants. And that's more of a human error then a problem with a large growing area.

The reason why I wouldn't go with seven, ten, or even a twenty gallon container is because frankly, the plants wouldn't live long enough to fill up the space. It would just be a waste of resources. Even five gallon containers can be considered a little wasteful. That's why this season I'm using three gallon containers. I feel this is a good balance of giving the plants ample space to grow, while reducing the amount of nutrients & water I need to buy and use.

I choose to grow indoors in dixie cups because I've learned that genetics overwhelmingly dictate the plant's yield, potency, and vigor. I like to germinate as many seeds as I can fit under a 125 watt CFL light. I'm murderous when it comes to picking my mothers. I may germinate 20-30 seeds at once, but I'll only allow a handful to grow for more then a week. I'll continue to evaluate them until I've decided on my keepers. And it's of those plants I make my clones from.

I'm a big advocate of buying cheap nutrients, keeping it simple with lights and containers, and go broke buying seeds.
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Vindicated: Thank you for your response! I'm loving the fact that you have an opinion but are willing to back it up with some facts. Also thanks for the compliment on the question. I have little knowledge and even less experience so I tend to take the advice from anyone willing to give it. I'm hopeful that after a grow or two I can separate the shit from the gems and take advice from people that know what they are doing. I think a lot of that can be discerned from the post and knowledge displayed.

For me you don't have to know everything, but you do have to know more than me. I've done quite a bit of reading, and quite a bit of lurking on the forums. I think I have some of the basics down and know enough to grow a decent plant. There are too many questions I have which are not immediately clear from books and posts. So I ask and usually get a lot of answers but few with logic, evidence, or experience to back up opinions. Some have one, the other or none of the above but feel that their opinions should be heard non-the-less. I find it shameful, if you have something to contribute. Contribute. But only if you have something to back up your words, usually more than an opinion.

Are you saying you grow in a dixie cup and then transplant to five gallon or three gallon? Then grow from there to finish? That was my plan originally. To grow in a small container, then transfer to the final container.

Are you also saying that you should spend lots on seeds over other parts of the grow? I tend to agree with the sentiment. But, how do you know that the genetics are good? How can a newbie or someone new to a strain or brand know how good the genetics are? I guess that's the only question I have when I see you write about genetics as most important. I just ordered from a place that has a rep for bad genetics ( cannabisseeds.com ) but I didn't know until after I read 4 reviews here. Now I feel crap, but will continue the grow to see if half of the people are right or the other half.

It sounds easy to spend on genetics but how does one do it?

I hope I didn't put you through the inquisition but I just had questions and I really appreciate your thought out answer. Thanks again, I hope you reply once more.

Pictures of my seedlings, all three germinated.
 
ValiD

ValiD

Active Member
Here's a logical explanation: seedlings don't go into larger containers because you can easily overwater them. In a small cup, the soil would dry waaay faster if you, say, overwatered. But in a larger container overwatering = death by rotting. At least this is my train of thought. I don't think stem and root development have anything to do with your question. Those 2 things are tied up to the vegetative state of the plant, not to the amount of soil, lol. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (if that someone knows what they're talking about). I may not know alot, but I go by the logical assessments, not by guessing.

I myself think 5 gallons is too big, as pointed out before. I have a plant which has been 1 month into veg and now almost 7 weeks into flowering. No pot bound issues, even though the roots are everywhere..if you don't plan to veg for more than a month, then you should be just fine into 3 gallon containers. After entering the flowering period, not very much root development is going on, as most hormones will be directed to the buds. Oh, I did start this one into the bigger pot just about 2 weeks after the seedling popped, and I started another one in a small pot, and boy what difference that made! Being a beginner myself, I didn't know at that point when to transplant, but I do know for sure now that you'll experience faster growth if you just let the plant fill the whole container before transplanting.

Now on the genetics thing, I believe this comes with the experience. Of course, you can pick a mother even from your first grow, but it may be shitty, even though the grower thinks it's the best shit. Then, a couple more grows later, he realizes his bomb-mother is not so dank after all. Growing different strains should also be practiced among newbies, because each and every one will teach you a different thing and then you can take the middle-ground instead of always worrying about how much nutes you give them for example. Seeing different behaviors makes a great deal of difference, in my opinion.

Your seedlings look good so far, but remember not to overwater. Less is always better than more, remember that. And bring those lights closer (2-3 inches at most). Oh, and also don't even think about nutrients or shit like that...your plants should be well on their own at least 2 weeks from now, in those containers and just the right amount of water. Hope this helps ya!
 
ikeathesofa

ikeathesofa

Member
ValiD said:
Here's a logical explanation: seedlings don't go into larger containers because you can easily overwater them. In a small cup, the soil would dry waaay faster if you, say, overwatered. But in a larger container overwatering = death by rotting. At least this is my train of thought. I don't think stem and root development have anything to do with your question. Those 2 things are tied up to the vegetative state of the plant, not to the amount of soil, lol. Someone correct me if I'm wrong (if that someone knows what they're talking about). I may not know alot, but I go by the logical assessments, not by guessing.

I myself think 5 gallons is too big, as pointed out before. I have a plant which has been 1 month into veg and now almost 7 weeks into flowering. No pot bound issues, even though the roots are everywhere..if you don't plan to veg for more than a month, then you should be just fine into 3 gallon containers. After entering the flowering period, not very much root development is going on, as most hormones will be directed to the buds. Oh, I did start this one into the bigger pot just about 2 weeks after the seedling popped, and I started another one in a small pot, and boy what difference that made! Being a beginner myself, I didn't know at that point when to transplant, but I do know for sure now that you'll experience faster growth if you just let the plant fill the whole container before transplanting.

Now on the genetics thing, I believe this comes with the experience. Of course, you can pick a mother even from your first grow, but it may be shitty, even though the grower thinks it's the best shit. Then, a couple more grows later, he realizes his bomb-mother is not so dank after all. Growing different strains should also be practiced among newbies, because each and every one will teach you a different thing and then you can take the middle-ground instead of always worrying about how much nutes you give them for example. Seeing different behaviors makes a great deal of difference, in my opinion.

Your seedlings look good so far, but remember not to overwater. Less is always better than more, remember that. And bring those lights closer (2-3 inches at most). Oh, and also don't even think about nutrients or shit like that...your plants should be well on their own at least 2 weeks from now, in those containers and just the right amount of water. Hope this helps ya!
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First thanks for the lovely response: rep + just based on your experience and fact based response. Second, haven't watered since I planted the seeds and hopefully I won't water until all plants or some are dry.

Your ideas of containers and watering have me intrigued. "I myself think 5 gallons is too big, as pointed out before." Why is 5 gal too big?

"I started another one in a small pot, and boy what difference that made!" What difference did it make? Was the pot the only possible thing that could change the growth of the plant?

What about buying genetics instead of breeding them? That for a newbie will be difficult. What do you or others think about this?

As far as watering, I decided not to water until the soil was dry. I'll bring my lights closer when my setup... 70% finished... allows me to do so.. I know they need closer light but I can't figure a way to do it without my box. Unless I modify the walls in this rental. Which I prefer not to do. Wish me luck!!!!
 
ValiD

ValiD

Active Member
ikeathesofa said:
First thanks for the lovely response: rep + just based on your experience and fact based response. Second, haven't watered since I planted the seeds and hopefully I won't water until all plants or some are dry.

Your ideas of containers and watering have me intrigued. "I myself think 5 gallons is too big, as pointed out before." Why is 5 gal too big?

"I started another one in a small pot, and boy what difference that made!" What difference did it make? Was the pot the only possible thing that could change the growth of the plant?

What about buying genetics instead of breeding them? That for a newbie will be difficult. What do you or others think about this?

As far as watering, I decided not to water until the soil was dry. I'll bring my lights closer when my setup... 70% finished... allows me to do so.. I know they need closer light but I can't figure a way to do it without my box. Unless I modify the walls in this rental. Which I prefer not to do. Wish me luck!!!!
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Thanks man, appreciate it!

About the 5 gallon pot thing, I think I should have mentioned that 5 gallon is too big if you don't go over a month in veg; this is just my opinion, based on the fact that I grew a couple of vegetables and flowers both in and outdoors (and both in pots and soil) and seen just about how the roots will fill a pot over a period of time. MJ is the same, except it will grow at a faster rate. For a 2 month plant for example, I'd pick a 5 gallon, that would make much more sense. Otherwise for a younger plant the additional 2 gal (or let's say just one, to be kind) will go to waste. If you have 3 plants and you use 5 gals instead of 3, you already wasted enough soil to plant one or 2 more plants. No need to use more than you need. Some might say different, but hey, everyone is entitled to believe what they think it's right.

Now, regarding that difference I was talking about; there was a huge difference in growth because with the big pot I watered once a week and that was enough. The roots were staying wet for too long and I experienced a bit of underdevelopment for that specific plant. However, using the smaller pot, I had to water twice a week, but growth was faster and much more visible by each day. Reason why this plant went into flowering at about 24 days in vegging, and the other one at 32 or 34 (1 week difference, which is something, really).

Hehe I get what you mean about the setup man, and let me tell ya, once you make a "decent" grow box, you'll never go back to growing without a box again. Take your time and think it through, and add ventilation! This is really important. I redid my grow box (well, what I called a grow box was really a room corner with fake cardboard walls lol) because I didn't have enough ventilation and because of the smell. That's another thing, but the ventilation you really shouldn't leave out of the plans. Active intake/outtake + dyi carbon scrubber rules! :D PS: you don't need to modify walls, just buy some wood and build yourself a simple box. Or you could use some drywalls, but I don't know how well they'll hold together.

Peace man!
 
Dan Casus

Dan Casus

Member
For a small grow, I'm a big fan of starting in a 3gallon smart pot, with quality soil, and feminized seed. No scientific reasoning, just K.I.S.S (keep it simple stupid), and effective.

Concerning your wet, pussyfied, computer... you might want to try the bowl of rice trick, works wonders on cell phones.
 
dman8168

dman8168

Well-Known Member
billy4479 said:
you should look up monocot vs dicot ganja is a dicot it has a fibrous root system .........NOT A TAP ROOT
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i did a search ....make sure you check your facts before your an ass----------->Roots Monocots have fibrous / adventitious root system. Roots grow out from shoot tissue near the base. As the first root emerging from germinating seed dies, monocots fail to form central, strong tap root system. Dicots have branching roots with a strong, thick tap root (tap root system).link where i found this.....hxxp://theagricos.com/seed-technology/seed/monocots-vs-dicots-difference/
 
ikeathesofa

ikeathesofa

Member
So my new grow box is built. Still needs a few final touches.

It was a bitch getting it in the closet, had to take it apart and build it again inside. It's aproximately 22" across 32" long and 4 ft tall. To think I built that for three plants. I might have overdone it.

Have six 42w 5500k CFLs hanging now, will switch to 2700k during flower.

Because I'm on a budget (see this post: First Grow - Beg, Borrow & Steal ) I used white paint for now.

Covered the floor with two layers of painters plastic and used water-proof duct tape to secure it.

As for ventilation I just have a fan setup inside for now. Will add computer intake outake fans later (no money).

P.S. On the subject on my laptop. Not sure if I can cuss on here but... It's a fucking miracle.

After my cat spilled a half glass of water on my laptop. I woke to find it in a puddle, the power off, many components soaked and as I took it apart many of the inside parts were wet. The first thing I did when I noticed water on the computer and the power off after I had left it on was unplug the machine. I then took it apart (I used to work as a computer tech.) and put a box fan on the parts and main laptop chassis in order to dry it. I left it like that for three days, because I know water can get into parts of the computer that are not user serviceable (like a hard-drive). But that if you give it enough time in the right conditions it might dry out on its own.

Lo and behold the god-damned laptop powered on and has been working normally for two days ( I wanted to test it out for a day or so to see if it exhibited any strange behavior). Its been working like a champ. Fucking hell I am relieved, I did not have money to replace it, but it is the basis of my business: Graphic Design. Apparently HP has improved in quality since I worked fixing computers of all kinds ten years ago.
 
Dan Casus

Dan Casus

Member
Looks good for veg... however once you need to go to flower, and close the door, that box is going to get small, quick, and very, very hot. IMO your'e going to need a stronger exhaust than a computer fan. Plus, sorry if I missed it, I don't see anything addressing odor. I would start saving for a 4" inline fan and carbon filter.

Congrat's on the computer. :clap:
 
RuchaYolanda

RuchaYolanda

Active Member
Personally (and I haven't read the entire thread...so maybe you got to this)...I start my seeds in papertowels...then put them in small biodegradable pots w/dirt...then when I see roots at the bottom I plant them in 3 gallon smart pots (smart pots are cloth grow bags that air prune the roots). And those smart pots are their final resting place. I never have to transplant because I just stick the entire biodegradable pot in the dirt and VOILA...

I hate transplanting! And I only use feminized seeds these days - so no wasting dirt.

YO
 
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