Sickmeds William's Wonder: grow journal. review and all things Wiliams Wonder

Thanks both of you for your comments...........after plucking off whatever males pods I've found, nothing has grown back yet so that's a good sign. I'll pluck everyday if need be, I'm not much in the mood to kill any of my plants at this point. I've marked any plant that shoes pods, and if I decide to keep a plant or two around after they finish, it will only be plants that have shown no pods throughout the grow.

This room has the tendency to run a little hot at times so I make sure the plants are well watered.......since they are indica's, maybe I'll let them dry out a bit more before watering every couple of days. I have 28 other plants going of other strains, and not a male pod in site.......

Today, day 24 in flowering. Nice bud development too, way ahead of my Grape God (but will catch up and finish before the W.W. I believe).

Seems like you got a grip on your situation to me and the ladies are looking good!
Just to be clear, I meant no disrespect to Jogro he is very knowledgeable.

And a fine grower too........

Jogro said:

Again, sounds weird, but I think the one that showed male pods on the mainstem is/was probably a late-declaring genetically male plant, despite some female flowers. Your one with the bananas is probably just an unusually hermie-prone female pheno.

I wouldn't use the term "unstable" since usually people refer to overall phenotypic variability with that term, but this line definitely has some sexual phenotype/hermie issues, and yeah, that makes dealing with this one a little bit more work.

I can tell you that having grown out multiple individual plants multiple times with clones that not only do individual plants put out different numbers of bananas mostly based on pheno, but the same individual plant will put out different numbers in different grows. Unfortunately, since I haven't controlled for temp, humidity, lighting distance, and nutes, all of which varied a bit from grow to grow, I can't tell you exactly which factor/s encourage hermies here.

My experience has also been that these typically appear on the lower branches. I speculated earlier that maybe this is because of lower light levels on said branches. Not sure.

Not having grown this outdoors, I can't comment on outdoors vs indoors, but IIRC Reddog from Sickmeds told me he's never seen so much as a single banana on these until he started growing indoors. . .so maybe there is something there.

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Your last statement. I have a good friend who breeds in Calif. He says this is very much the case in many strains...they do wonderful outdoors but the simpliest of things can make them very unhappy indoors. I would like to try this strain outdoors just to answer this question. I think she would do just fine especially since the breeder says so himself. Not to mention that I have seen it for myself with other strains as well.

Simple repeated culling of "pure" male plants for indoor growing after many generations would be expected to reduce the frequency of that sexual phenotype, with increases in others.

colocowboy said:

No it wouldn't, provided one used a real male for those successive filial generations! There is simply no correlative factor to influence that change in gametes pairing.

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Sorry. . .didn't make myself clear here. What I said above implies open pollenization to create subsequent generations. In other words, you're getting some background pollenization from "hermie" plants. In that setting if you're culling out most of the obvious males, but don't ruthlessly cull out every hermie plant over time you're selecting for increased numbers of hermies.

Exactly as you say, this doesn't apply if you're carefully selecting male parents and ensuring controlled pollination with those.

Anyway, I just got feedback from another grower who told me he just finished a round of the Sickmeds Williams Wonder outdoors. He saw only a few bananas end of flowering, with no se-eding. He also said he got some bud rot outdoors from late season humidity, something I think is expected with dense-bud pure indicas like this one.

colocowboy said:

Seems like you got a grip on your situation to me and the ladies are looking good!
Just to be clear, I meant no disrespect to Jogro he is very knowledgeable.

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No, what you said is absolutely correct, and no disrespect was perceived.

Anyway, its probably a waste of time speculating on why this line likes to put out bananas, we just know it does, usually just a few the last few weeks.

In the meantime, I'll just pull up a chair and watch the nice pictures from SSHZ.

The plants are already pretty darn impressive for less than four weeks into 12-12. I can practically smell them from the picture!

NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!!!


Just one picture, I promise, of the best looking N.L. #5 going currently. It's in the same room as the Williams Wonder. They are enjoying each others company, and I'm hoping no "sex" is going on when I'm not watching- or do I? It's by British Columbia seeds, I used to grow it out regularly in the early 1990's. Only 3 females out of 10 seeds, it used to be very good.....we'll see. It the same age as the W.W. too, day 26 flowering. Sorry, I turned the photo, but it's not sticking when downloaded.

SSHZ said:

NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT!!!!


Just one picture, I promise, of the best looking N.L. #5 going currently. It's in the same room as the Williams Wonder. They are enjoying each others company, and I'm hoping no "sex" is going on when I'm not watching- or do I? It's by British Columbia seeds, I used to grow it out regularly in the early 1990's. Only 3 females out of 10 seeds, it used to be very good.....we'll see. It the same age as the W.W. too, day 26 flowering. Sorry, I turned the photo, but it's not sticking when downloaded.

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We used to grow out Northern Lights allot. The original NL was some of the best Smoke around for years...still is IMO!! The seed we were growing would produce some of the Stickiest cannabis I have ever seen. It was so sticky that even after months of curing you could not roll a joint....you had to hit it in a pipe or bong. It would stick to anything you came in contact with...so papers were out of the question!! MMMM MMMM GOOD!!!

Yup......I started growing 25 years ago with The Seed Bank's (Nevil) "N.L. 5 X 2"..........devastatingly potent, easy to grow, only a fair yield but it could take a lot of abuse. People swore it was adulterated with something to make it sooooooo strong. Nevil recently said in a blog that the strain has been done and gone since the early 90's. I too love N.L.'s, unfortunately I haven't seen anything close to the real thing in many years.

Exactly a week later......day 31 in flowering. Buds are filling in and are a lot denser. I pulled the plants in a bit closer inward and ran some string around the perimeter. They are only under one 600 watter. Smell is noticeable, even for me but I've seen worse at this point (i.e. Reserva Privada OG Kush #18...a sour stink bomb). Not much difference from last week to this week other than the buds getting larger and hardening up. I see Sea of Seeds got these seeds back in stock for those who want to try it.........

SSHZ said:

Exactly a week later......day 31 in flowering. Buds are filling in and are a lot denser. I pulled the plants in a bit closer inward and ran some string around the perimeter. They are only under one 600 watter. Smell is noticeable, even for me but I've seen worse at this point (i.e. Reserva Privada OG Kush #18...a sour stink bomb). Not much difference from last week to this week other than the buds getting larger and hardening up. I see Sea of Seeds got these seeds back in stock for those who want to try it.........

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Yeah, by week 5 these are probably 90% of the final height. Instead of growing upwards, the colas just keep getting fatter and fatter, noticeably packing on weight and density until really the last 1-2 weeks. Max odor is probably week 8 when fresh bud density peaks. Again, keep humidity controlled towards the end, because the super dense buds are susceptible to mold/rot.

On Northern lights, last time I grew that one was 1995 (or so). Didn't quite have the yield of Williams Wonder, nor quite the extreme indica effect, but it was very much a classic short, bushy, piney scented indica heavy plant of high potency. Not only would I love to grow this one again some day, but I'd also be curious to see the head-to-head comparison of this BC version against Williams Wonder.

There is quite a bit of discussion/debate about whose current offering of NL#5 is the best, and if anyone still has a legitimate version. Remember this? https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/601395-breeder-has-true-nl-5-a.html Good info in that thread.

I think the deal with Neville is that he says the original (clone only) parent plant line that he used for breeding in the early 1990s was lost. But given just how popular, and widely distributed this one was, it just can't be the case that all the genetics have been lost. There very well may be cuts of it (pure or hybridized) in private hands still, and its almost certainly true that at least some of the "name" versions of this contain a good amount of the original genetics. EG some say the famous pre-'98 Bubba Kush clone-only strain is just a cut of NL#5.

Also, the plant has been so widely hybridized that certainly the genetics of this live on in other lines. For example, all the "OG Kush" variants probably have a good amount of NL genetics in there, and so do Jack Herer, Super Silver Haze, and others of these famous super-haze hybrids.

I see our history goes back further than this thread. LOL

I think I'll be a pretty good judge for a comparison of the W.W. vs. the N.L.'s. I grew them exclusively from 1988 to 1993, all from Nevil and many, many plants. Most of the old N.L.'s are poor yielders, other then N.L. #5- that's why I moved on to other things. But over the years I still grown many other versions by others- Dr. Atomic, Nirvana, Sagarmatha, Dinafem, and others- none touch the originals.

Nevils comments were directly related to the N.L. 5 X 2 strain........that strain is long gone since the early 90's. But I'm sure some of his N.L.'s genes have been furthered by Sensi breeding- unfortunately for the worse. I would look at Peak Seeds BC for a very good N.L. today, but since they don't do feminized, I passed. Dinafem has their "Industrial Plant", which is very good and a high yielder- but takes a solid 10+ weeks.

My bottom line.......the old N.L.'s are gone, and nothing today really is very close to the originals. If it were, I'd be growing them.

SSHHHHHHZZZZ....I think the ORIGINAL is still around ( Beans )!!!! Not avail by any breeder per say but the genetics were preserved! As you and Jogro state...it was awesone smoke. Not a great yeild but that is usually the case with something special like NL

Wow, just noticed this thread. I bought WW beans back in the 80's maybe 90's. I was never able to grow them but I went to a friends house and he showed me his grow and immediately i noticed he didnt have a good strain. I gave him my WW beans and told him good luck. Several months later he told me to come over. I walked in and he threw a 2' cola the width of a beer can to me and began telling me how incredible this smoke was. He nicknamed it "Cartoon bud" because it made you feel like you were in a cartoon. It was the most popular bud around while he was growing it. Glad to see it around again.

SSHZ said:

I think I'll be a pretty good judge for a comparison of the W.W. vs. the N.L.'s.

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I think so too, that's why I mentioned it explicitly. Didn't really want to turn this into a Northern lights thread, but hey, that's another and even more famous "lost" early 1990s indica, so why not? If you're interested in WiWo, you're probably interested in NL#5. . .or maybe "should" be!

But over the years I still grown many other versions by others- Dr. Atomic, Nirvana, Sagarmatha, Dinafem, and others- none touch the originals.

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That bad, huh? Of the current offerings that you've tried, which do you think is the best, if not necessarily the most authentic?

Not having grown this in a LONG time, I honestly don't know which NL version today is the "best", let alone which one is the most similar to the one from the early 1990s, but if I were trying to go back in time, so to speak, I'd be taking a look at 303 Aurora project and MNS "Ortega" both of which are attempts at rebreeding the original from authentic genetics. For those reading this who don't know, Ortega has a reputation of being hermie-prone.

Also, I think Sensi can at least claim a historical legacy here, but I've heard mixed things about their current offering, mostly negative, and their version is pretty spendy.

I would look at Peak seeds BC for a very good N.L. today, but since they don't do feminized, I passed.,

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Why is that? Didn't you say that the NL you're currently growing are regulars? And you're growing reg Williams Wonder, right?

Anyway, this one is probably worth a look, and assuming you actually get them, I don't think you can beat the price at only $40 shipped.

Yes, the N.L. #5's are regulars.......they are in a side room where I do regulars. They are with the W.W.'s. Large room is for feminized to make it workable.

My point was I've been searching for a really good N.L. for a long time and haven't found anything that could touch the originals. Sensi N.L.'s are now hybrids with new parentage and is not anywhere like it used to be. Mr. Nice Ortega, which is supposed to be N.L. #1 X N.L. #5 is full of hermies and just not that strong. Nirvana's are OK, but again no where as good. Dinafem's I.P. is supposedly the original mother of Jack Herer, the plant. not the man- and is good but way different then any N.L. I've ever seen. I could go n and on. Etc. etc.

I've read something called P91 (I think that's it) is around on the west coast and is original....but good luck finding seeds/clones of that baby!!!!!!

An afterthought on the BCSB "N.L. #5" I'm currently doing. I did this one years ago, and it was pretty good. Everyone liked it a lot. But it's been maybe 10 years since and I thought I'd give it another grow and see how it turns out for shits and giggles.....

But your right, back to W.W..............

SSHZ said:

Yes, the N.L. #5's are regulars.......they are in a side room where I do regulars. They are with the W.W.'s. Large room is for feminized to make it workable.

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Since you're currently growing another regular version, I still don't really understand why you couldn't try the Peak Se-eds NL regs if you really wanted to. Regardless, I'm sure you have your reasons, you certainly don't need to explain them to me, and I'm moving on.

My point was I've been searching for a really good N.L. for a long time and haven't found anything that could touch the originals.

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You and everyone else, apparently. Me too, actually, though to be absolutely clear, I think we're talking about beans here (not cuts).

For what its worth, if you look at the SC labs website, they let you search their database of tested samples, and if you check out Northern lights, there are several ones sold at dispensaries tested in the last year running at 20%+ THC. I don't know how "legit" these are in terms of genetic pedigree, nor how closely they resemble the older line, but at least somebody has SOMETHING fairly potent that they're calling "Northern lights".

Not incidentally, two different samples of so-called "Atomic Northern lights" from two different dispensaries, have tested out at 13 and 19% THC, respectively, in the last year. Presumably, those are cuts from the Dr. Atomic version, and so maybe that one does have some potential if its selected and grown properly.

Sensi N.L.'s are now hybrids with new parentage and is not anywhere like it used to be. Mr. Nice Ortega, which is supposed to be N.L. #1 X N.L. #5 is full of hermies and just not that strong. Nirvana's are OK, but again no where as good. Dinafem's I.P. is supposedly the original mother of Jack Herer, the plant. not the man- and is good but way different then any N.L. I've ever seen. I could go n and on. Etc. etc.

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For what its worth, the original Jack Herer was a three way hybrid that's supposedly 50% Haze, 37.5% NL and 12.5% Skunk. I don't know the exact way this was bred, but its probably something like (Haze x NL) x (Haze x [Nl x (NL x Skunk)]) from two highly select hybrid parents, kept as clones to make the beans. Regardless of how the actual crosses were done, based on the listed percentages, the mother plant of JH has to itself be an NL hybrid of some kind with Haze and/or Skunk, and this alone could explain why the "industrial plant" is unlike pure NL and has a higher flowering time.

I've read something called P91 (I think that's it) is around on the west coast and is original....but good luck finding seeds/clones of that baby!!!!!!

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The P91 "Poway Class of 91" is a "clone only" from the San Diego area and the story is that this is an original NL#5 inbred by members of the Poway High School graduating class of 1991 who were growing commercially, then later busted in '94. Some say the real line was wiped out in that bust. Don't know if that's true or not (probably not), but believe it or not, buds of this do turn up for sale in certain SD area dispensaries and sometimes even clones do. I don't think you're going to find beans of this anywhere, but if you're OK with a cut, and want this badly enough you can likely get one.

An afterthought on the BCSB "N.L. #5" I'm currently doing. I did this one years ago, and it was pretty good. Everyone liked it a lot. But it's been maybe 10 years since and I thought I'd give it another grow and see how it turns out for shits and giggles.....

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Well, I'd love to see how this one does.

mmm love me some nl5! that 303 happy aurora looked so nice... did you pop those wonder kush ssh or was that someone else?

?????????????????

answers that...lol