Sickmeds William's Wonder: grow journal. review and all things Wiliams Wonder

Williams Wonder..........Because of everything going on family/dog wise, I basically concentrated most of my time in the big room with the Grape God. I mean water/flush, nothing more. I wasn't spending any time in the room observing, cleaning, etc. I typically spends 2 hours a day with everything, I think I was spending 20 minutes a day at the end. The smaller room with the W.W. got even less attention. Just didn't have the time. 2 of the 8 W.W. developed a spider mite issue, but the other 6 W.W. and 3 N.L. #5 were perfectly fine. I didn't want it to get out of control, so I sprayed my newest find, Flying Skull "Nuke Em". Below are the ingredients:

Citric Acid .....................................................0.05%
Inert Ingredients
Yeast (Enzymes) ..........................................9.43%
Potassium Sorbate .......................................0.02%
Water..........................................................90.50%
Total:........................................................100.00%


Basically it's stuff you'll find in bread. 3 applications, 3 days apart. It killed the mites, but it damaged some plants. By the way, I sprayed all 6 plants on 1 side of the room, the 6 W.W. Some plants did fine, some suffered. All plants were given a thorough washing before harvest one morning before harvest to wash everything off.

Now the details............3 plants turned out wonderful, 3 turned out OK, and two I'll make hash out of. Everything is still curing, and I'm in no rush. This IS long ago pot, not like you find with today's stuff. Pot is so different now, this is more subtle, more "old-time" in smell/taste and "greasiness" of the resin. Yield was very good after just 1 pinching. I got 2.25 oz per plant, which for me is very high. I'd rate the high an 8.5/9 out of 10. It's become my late night smoke, the strongest indica I currently have. It continues to surprise me. I let it go 65 days, and some of the plants could have gone longer. It smells and tastes now exactly like it smelled when growing........no change whatever. It is quite smelly when growing, so be prepared. IT WAS really BAD for the last month or so. Bananas were seen on 2 plants early in veg, but were just plucked off. Bananas were seen everywhere the last 2 weeks or so too, but they must be sterile. I haven't found 1 seed anywhere...........

I still own some of these seeds, and in time I'll grow this again and do a better job with it. I have seen the potential of it and it's high. But some plants didn't turn out well. There was some variation in quality, not necessarily from the sprayings. It's hard to say for sure, and only another grow of it will answer my questions. It's a subtle smoke, and you need to have the sense to appreciate the differences in this kind of smoke. Obviously, some can, and then again, some can't.

So, bottom line, it's as good as a lot of the stronger indica's currently available.........but it's not top shelf "elite" in my opinion. I can think of a number of strains that are stronger, or taste better, or yield more, or smell less when growing or whatever, whatever. But definitely worth a grow once in a while for some variety. Pic's up tomorrow.........

A pic of W.W. from the crop......you get the idea!

Sounds like you had mostly the same experience with this that I had. The main question I have is just did it live up to your expectations? I can imagine what the answer will be, but I'd also like to hear how you think this compared to the NL and Grape God (if you can).

Can't say I didn't warn you about the late flowering smell. Hope your love-life has recovered since then.

On scent/flavor, again, I think you need to let this cure for at least a month before you pass judgement (assuming you can!). My experience is that in the jar this starts out with a strong "weed" scent, but over time that slowly evolves into the distinct and somewhat unusual citrus/floral scent that this one is known for.

Personally, I think that when developed, this has good. . .but not great. . .scent/flavor, though that's sort of besides the point. Nobody is growing this for the scent/flavor. The line is known for high potency, indica effect, and yield, and I think that's really what makes or breaks this one.

I'm curious to hear what differences in quality you've perceived between your phenos.

In my initial comments, which didn't get posted after I got locked out, I addressed the curing issue and forgot to add it the second time. This is exactly the type of pot that will greatly improve with a long cure, maybe a couple of months. Personally, I like either spicey or fruity, and this is neither. It's very subtle right now, but with loads of resin- I know it's in there some place and just need time to develop.

For a comparison, I did Sweet Seeds "Green Poison" for about 6 crops and then moved on to Next Generations Grape God as my main crop. Both these have more sativa in them than the W.W., so it makes a true comparison difficult. This actually reminds me of Dr. GreenThumbs "Endless Sky" right now. My overall experience with the E.S. was not good, but at this stage the smell and taste are similar. The W.W. is more potent though right now.

Regarding expectations..........if all 8 plants turned out like my best 3, I'd be ecstatic. I've kept all 8 plants separated in containers, so in the weeks down the road, I'll be able to give a clearer response on my experience. The best 3 are very good and I'm smoking them at night- every night. The other plants, though, I haven't bothered with so I can't comment on their potency yet. I didn't SEE much difference in the plants appearance, they all looked pretty similar. I can't comment on the highs yet. But some were further along then others. It could have been the mites and spraying, or more light since they were only under 600 watts, or just genetics. Another grow of it will answer this for me.

What I think you are looking for is this..........the high from this cuts thru the other smokes I have. I can smoke this and it seems to take me to a new level in the evening. I think some of the kushes I've done are stronger. Everyone looks for different things when growing: potency, ease of growth, yield, fem vs reg, etc...........

SSHZ said:

So, bottom line, it's as good as a lot of the stronger indica's currently available.........but it's not top shelf "elite" in my opinion.

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I can see that. You can definitely find stuff that's more potent AND better tasting, if those are your criteria. Not sure you can expect to find anything truly "elite" out of one pack of regular beans in any case.

For home growers, I think the bottom line test is really just whether or not the strain is a "keeper", or even just if you want to grow it again. Sounds like this meets that bar for you, though maybe just barely.

On "elite," my issue with that term is that different people use it to mean different things.

For some people "elite" just means a high quality cut with limited circulation. By that definition WiWo might have been "elite" two years ago before Sickmeds reintroduced it to the commercial marketplace, but it surely isn't now that anyone with $80 can buy a pack! For some people "elite" is just what's trendy at the dispensaries. For some, "elite" refers to rare cuts that offer the "total package" of high yield, potency, and exceptional flavor.

Personally, I don't care if something is "elite" or not. . .I just want it to meet my own criteria (which are mostly about potency and effect).

Without beating this to death anymore, I think if you pick a good pheno, this one does compare favorably to a lot of so-called "elite" strains when it comes to yield, effect, and potency. Smell/flavor?. . .Not so much.

If you do know of any strains that are readily available in se-ed form likely to give better flavor with equivalent (or better) yield and potency, by all means, please share what they are!

A while back I detailed a grow on a strain, actually multiple grows, on a not very popular strain and the prices on them were falling, along with a smaller and smaller space presence on the company's print advertising. Essentially, I was told, I majorly helped revise the strain and it became quite popular. It still is....... Vendors started running out of them, and the prices started rising on them. The breeder even started sending me test packs to start documenting my grows for them...........but I learned a lesson- don't advertise my favorite strains.

But I'll be happy to message you a few things I think you may be interested in........

Wish I had read your last post before posting my rant on "elite". Anyway. . ..

SSHZ said:

In my initial comments, which didn't get posted after I got locked out, I addressed the curing issue and forgot to add it the second time. This is exactly the type of pot that will greatly improve with a long cure, maybe a couple of months. Personally, I like either spicey or fruity, and this is neither. It's very subtle right now, but with loads of resin- I know it's in there some place and just need time to develop.

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Well, my experience has been a fairly dramatic improvement with a few months cure time, but you'll find out. . .assuming you have any buds remaining in that time!

Regarding expectations..........if all 8 plants turned out like my best 3, I'd be ecstatic. I've kept all 8 plants separated in containers, so in the weeks down the road, I'll be able to give a clearer response on my experience. The best 3 are very good and I'm smoking them at night- every night.

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Well, that says something, I think. Clones could ensure that your next 8 turned out like your favorite 3. . .but that's "work".

What I think you are looking for is this..........the high from this cuts thru the other smokes I have. I can smoke this and it seems to take me to a new level in the evening. I think some of the kushes I've done are stronger. Everyone looks for different things when growing: potency, ease of growth, yield, fem vs reg, etc...........

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That's interesting. From a cannabinoid standpoint, this one has THCV, which I think most of the kushes lack, and that may be what's "cutting through". It also has higher CBD than most of them too. IIRC, CBD actually displaces THC from certain cannabinoid receptors, and that may also contribute to the effect you're seeing.

Anyway, some good points here. Thanks.

I smoked for the 1st time last night in 4 days, as I've been sick with a sore throat and cough. Reached for the W.W., and loaded the vape for a bag.

With the family home, I braved the congestion in the living room and proceeded to have a "laughing attack", shortly after. Everyone though I was crazy.

It shows I probably harvested this plant a bit too early, bringing out more sativa effects than indica......all in the head (headband) and eyes (squinty eye effect). But nicely potent none the less!

SSHZ said:

I smoked for the 1st time last night in 4 days, as I've been sick with a sore throat and cough. Reached for the W.W., and loaded the vape for a bag.

With the family home, I braved the congestion in the living room and proceeded to have a "laughing attack", shortly after. Everyone though I was crazy.

It shows I probably harvested this plant a bit too early, bringing out more sativa effects than indica......all in the head (headband) and eyes (squinty eye effect). But nicely potent none the less!

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You may be right that you harvested too early, but there could be more to this than just that.

I've both smoked this and vaped it, and although still strong in the vape, in my experience, you do lose a good bit of the characteristic indica effect with vape. That's not true of just this strain, by the way. . .most "indicas" become more "sativa" like with vape. It has to do with differing vaporization temps of the various cannabinoids. CBD vaporizes at 206C, but THC only 159C. So vaping tends to give you somewhat of a less CBD-rich inhalant then smoking.

Assuming you have the ability to control temps on your vape, I've found you will get a little more of the indica/CBD effect if you crank up the temp to max possible before combustion. Its still not exactly the same as smoke, but closer.

Another more definitive technique I've heard of (but never tried) is to run one pass at low temp to extract out mostly THC, then discard it, or let someone else have it. After pulling out a good bit of the THC, you then run a second pass at a higher temp, thereby increasing the CBD/THC ratio for a more stony effect. You'd probably have to play with this a bit to get the numbers and technique right, but assuming you did and were consistent, you could probably have a pretty good control over the final effect.

Hum......makes a lot of sense actually. I use a Volcano, and generally just crank up the temp to the highest setting. It could also be this particular plant, but it sure looked done when I picked it out the from the container. No matter though, I was absolutely blitzed!

I go back and forth between my Roor and the Volcano- but i find I always get higher when smoking from the vape. I always attributed it to the fact that fire destroys some of the resin in the burning process, while the vape doesn't.

Time for my favorite past times-----football and smoking!

Hey Jogro........I thought u may be interested in what I'm now growing in my small room. 20 plants started, non fem, hoping to end up with 12 plants. 100% germination, off to a flying start. I know, it's sativa, but another old-time smoke none the less.

http://www.seedbankreview.com/insane-seed-posse-cantaloupe-skunk/

How are you guys on phenos?

What phenos have you seen with WW (SSSC)? Jogro...I remember you saying a tangerine-ish type smell. Mine doesn't smell anything like it and it's in veg. It has a dankier..almost burnt rubber smell, but it's not. The internodes are almost perfectly symmetrical. They are pretty much the same distance from each other and there are about 12 nodes now.

I popped in 3 more ceeds and they are already in cups now. I just want to make sure I got a female. Out of 4 possible ceeds, one seems to not be germinating. It's been about 3 days and nothing, but I have waited 6 days before. I'm gonna keep trying and give up on Sunday if this last ceed doesn't pop.

I can't speak to the SSSC pheno variation, since I've never grown any from SSSC packs. Supposedly the line was pretty uniform even then.

From Sickmeds, the pheno variation I've seen is pretty minimal. I've seen some variation in height, and some variation in number of "nanas" during growing. But overall plant structure, smell and taste are pretty similar.

On the tangerine scent I mentioned, you're not going to get that during veg at all. During veg, you get a pretty characteristic indica "skunky" smell, which I think you could fairly describe as "burned rubber".

The tangerine scent doesn't appear until you have good flower clusters, maybe the third week of flowering. It only sticks around for maybe 2-3 more weeks before a strong "weed"/indica scent takes over. The "weed" scent becomes VERY strong last few weeks of flowering to the point where you better have your odor control in place, and will dominate in your buds during curing for at least 1-2 months.

After a prolonged cure the weedy scent goes mostly away, and the underlying citrus scent comes out again. At this point the buds will be left with the characteristic citrus/floral scent the strain is known for. Some people call this "honey lemon" or "lemon candy", and IMO both of those are reasonable descriptions.

I popped in 3 more ceeds and they are already in cups now. I just want to make sure I got a female. Out of 4 possible ceeds, one seems to not be germinating. It's been about 3 days and nothing, but I have waited 6 days before. I'm gonna keep trying and give up on Sunday if this last ceed doesn't pop.

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Many times I've had individual se-eds take more than a week to germinate; personally I wouldn't give up on this one until at LEAST ten days.

SSHZ said:

Hum......makes a lot of sense actually. I use a Volcano, and generally just crank up the temp to the highest setting. It could also be this particular plant, but it sure looked done when I picked it out the from the container. No matter though, I was absolutely blitzed!

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It well could be the plant. If you've vaped OTHER WiWo buds and had different effect, or smoked this one with the same effect, then there's your answer.

I'm just saying that in general vaping and smoking will give different effects. You'll get closer with the highest possible temp, but so far as I know, there is no setting on any vape that will give the same exact effect as smoking. Can't remember if I've vaped the WiWo (think so), but I've recently smoked AND vaped the ChemWo, and the effect is different, despite max pre-combustion vape temps.

I go back and forth between my Roor and the Volcano- but i find I always get higher when smoking from the vape. I always attributed it to the fact that fire destroys some of the resin in the burning process, while the vape doesn't.

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Well this is pretty complicated. Its true that combustion destroys some of the cannabinoids, but its also true that overall extraction efficiency of vape typically isn't quite as high as smoking. Personally, I think the leftover vaped bud is disgusting, and I'd rather go without than reuse it, but this is why some people will use the leftover spent buds from vaping for cooking.

Anyway, in my experience vaping gives a much more cerebral "spacier" effect. Vaping also lets you take much bigger hits, and that can be affecting the perceived quality of the experience as well.

Time for my favorite past times-----football and smoking!

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Watching it while smoking. . .good. Playing it while smoking? Don't think I want to do that (or certainly not with WiWo!) Maybe smoking it AFTER playing football!

On Cantaloupe Skunk, yeah. . .that's some serious old-school stuff. I'd love to try that one some day, particularly grown outdoors!

Hey Jogro.....thought I'd check back in and tell you how much I'm enjoying the Williams Wonder. It's my late night smoke, usually around bed time. I haven't noticed any build up of tolerance, and I'm smoking it daily. And it keeps getting better and better as it continues to dry out and cure better. YUMMY!!!!!!!!

Greetings....gonna bump this thread as I have a Williams wonder I just put in the dark today at 70 full days of flower. it still looks like it could go a bit longer. my untrained eye see's bunch of cloudy trichs but cant distinguish much amber. should I have let it go based on pistles? sickmeds says 65 days. this is a clone off the first one I took at 65 days. plus, I got 1 conformed female and 2 possible males from seed looking really nice as well. any info would be greatly appreciated. the pic is at 68 days....one other thing...ive read a lot about hermies with this strain/breeder but...I found 2 I think on the first one and none on this one so....not sure the deal there...

Hey Jogro......if you happen too check back in- I did a N.L. X Big Bud from World of Seeds that turned out very well. It's a very popular strain and it was freebie seed from Attitude or Herbies. It's a keeper......

Jogro said:

OK, started two random ceeds from the pack into soil in 16 ounce cups.

I cover the plants with 1/4 inch of soil, mist heavily on top with water, and put a plastic bag over the top so they don't dry out. Cups are put about eight inches under a 13(!) watt CFL, just to give them something to "aim" at when they break soil.

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Hi Jogro, I had already purchased this wonderful ceed for my first grow before I found your journal, this has been sooooo helpful. I have a couple of questions which I'll try to ask at each post:

Here did you germinate the seeds first or place directly in the cups?

I planned to use a 150 watt HID light for the entire grow, any thoughts? Growing in the midatlantic where temps can fluctaute from 20 to 50 degrees every few days

Your input is most valued...

FYI.......150 watts isn't enough to grow 1 decent plant. Just not enough lumens.