Should I just flush?

Ifarted420 · Sep 8, 2015

Hey guys, y'all are killing me over here. I ended up flushing both of them, and hit them with half strength.

There are obviously some deficiencies, but I knew things might have been a little fucked up in the soil so I just flushed, adding pelletized lime a couple of weeks ago was defiantly a good idea. Prior to that my soil pH (which may or may not mean anything anyway and is very difficult to record accurately) was very low around 5.5 soil pH is in the high sixes now

Towards the end of veg, I started getting a nitrogen toxicity in my c99. Apparently she's a nitrogen whore during flowering, not veg, weird.

Things are already looking better, c99 has actually gained a bit of weight since that flush and feed.

Dr.Who I believe you are correct sir, however I felt better doing a flush and then doing nearly exactly what you said.

Despite the lime colored leaves which is now only on the cobra, the plants look very full of life. However leaf damage is nearly irreversible, I have noticed some greening up in them but its only gonna get so green. I think they are happy now. Btw almost positive this is the fruit punch pheno, and for the cobra its DEFINETLY the tangie dominant pheno. Orangr and lemon lollipops. That's all I smell

Ifarted420 · Sep 8, 2015

I do believe things were just SUPER unbalanced in the soil, looking back now even though this was not even a week ago I can't believe they looked like that. I think everything became locked out, the flush was a good idea IMO

Dr. Who · Sep 8, 2015

Ifarted420 said:
Hey guys, y'all are killing me over here. I ended up flushing both of them, and hit them with half strength.

There are obviously some deficiencies, but I knew things might have been a little fucked up in the soil so I just flushed, adding pelletized lime a couple of weeks ago was defiantly a good idea. Prior to that my soil pH (which may or may not mean anything anyway and is very difficult to record accurately) was very low around 5.5 soil pH is in the high sixes now

Towards the end of veg, I started getting a nitrogen toxicity in my c99. Apparently she's a nitrogen whore during flowering, not veg, weird.

Things are already looking better, c99 has actually gained a bit of weight since that flush and feed.

Dr.Who I believe you are correct sir, however I felt better doing a flush and then doing nearly exactly what you said.

Despite the lime colored leaves which is now only on the cobra, the plants look very full of life. However leaf damage is nearly irreversible, I have noticed some greening up in them but its only gonna get so green. I think they are happy now. Btw almost positive this is the fruit punch pheno, and for the cobra its DEFINETLY the tangie dominant pheno. Orangr and lemon lollipops. That's all I smell

Thank you....Your correct on the C99's N needs in flower! Your observations on the "greening" of leaves are right along the expected lines of recovery I envisioned...

Don't worry about doing the "flush"... I tell folks not to, more because they will overdo it and restart watering too soon and drown the plant or throw the pH way out of whack doing it......Sounds like you have that taken care of Ok....

Doc

Dr. Who · Sep 8, 2015

polishpollack said:
Dr.who, in an earlier post I explained that I've seen nothing but FF soil used for the duration of a grow and it worked by itself just fine. I don't know about the duration of soil is 30-40 days. Complicating this is the fact that the grower states they mixed Dr. Earth soil and happy frog as well, which may not mean much, or it might bring changes to the FF soil that could be too much. I understand you think the ferts are used up but what kind of proof do you have? Do the companies say their soils are only good for 30 days? I have to ask because I've seen FF last for more than 60 days, so I'm curious how you know. I haven't used happy frog soil, but have been told that it will last a very long time. I read your post, just disagree with some of it. I'm not sure that nitrogen is needed even though lower leaves are yellow. This plant's yellowing really doesn't follow the pattern of low nitrogen. Leaves go yellow when too much fert is given and can confuse people into thinking that nitrogen is needed when the truth is that leaves go yellow due to many different reasons - it just shows that they are dying, but no necessarily the cause. To jump to a conclusion that more fert is needed just based on yellowing may not be the best thing to do, especially if you know that the soil used already carries fert. And calling people cocksucking dumb fck in this forum isn't the best thing either. (not that you did this).

I agree with you on long running available nutrition coming from larger volumes of available soil. BUT, that's where it ends dude!
I do NOT believe you about a run being done in NOTHING but FFOF!!!! If it made the finish. It was a scruffy weak plant....

I run Water Only super soils that I build.....I do the 2 pot style......1 soil for veg and another for Bloom......I veg in 3 gallon pots and up pot to 10 gallon pots with the bloom soil in place. This "bloom" soil has 3 different Bagged soils used along with a bloom nutrient and 3 different minerals in a mix - including Dolomite to handle the extra needed buffer......Most strains run out fine,,,,,Feed hogs need supplemental feeding at week 3 out to week 7....

FFOF will only supply nutrition out to 4-5 weeks. Happy frog even less.....The average for nutrient amended organic soils is 30 days.....I start some minor nutrient use at 30 or less if the plant shows the need..

In all cases of early yellowing from the bottom up - The grower "failed" by overuse of P&K......This problem, if not dealt with, will continue and increase in speed.....It needs to be countered and stopped as best you can......Water only for a week. Then what many would consider as too high for bloom. Raise the amount of N your feeding and slowly return the P&K at lower ratio's....

In most cases this is not a "cure" so to speak, but a way to "control" the problem so the plant will finish with very acceptable yield rates...

One other point,,,,,No I did not name call and thanks for saying so.....I try to avoid the crude retort....You must remember that the internet makes many feel empowered to be a Red Headed Ass clown!

Doc

Ifarted420 · Sep 8, 2015

One thing I did not do, as I seen your post a little too late was raise N levels and decrease PK levels. The plants being on different water schedules c99 was actually flushed and fed half strength Friday night. Pots feeling light and its been 4 days, since I fed last watering should I give just water and maybe a foliar feed (I know its real late in flower for that) or should I just go ahead and go with the idea of feeding just a light dose of N?

polishpollack · Sep 9, 2015

There were two things in the first post that showed the problem was more likely over fert than lacking nitrogen the way some suspected. The soils used have ferts added to them and the grower stated they were adding more fert. Then there was the yellowing itself, which was confusing some. The combo of lower leaf yellowing along with yellowing in the middle of the plant indicates a different kind of nutrient problem. I stated earlier that leaves go yellow for more than just one reason. It could be over fert or under. Just because lower leaves go yellow, a grower really shouldn't jump to the conclusion that it's based on low nitrogen, especially when it's known that the soil used have fert in them. All the yellow means is that something is wrong. I've been reading online grow forums since OG back in 1999 and the most common mistake people make is over fert. Why? Because it's so easy to do.
Some people like to foliar feed, but I've seen it cause problems. Frankly, if your plants look pretty good, don't try anything risky. If you see improvement, I'd let that ride out for while. You want to use a wet/dry cycle for watering. Let the soil dry out quite a bit, is usually the recommendation as it lets a lot of oxygen in to the roots.
Regarding Dr. Who's belief in FF soil only grows being successful, here's some pics of the outcome; I'll try to upload here. These plants showed a little leaf tip burn, some fert sensitivity, and maybe that's why they did so well without additives. Maybe it was a good combo of genotype and soil. In the second photo, you can see how dark green the leaves are with leaf tip browning.

Ifarted420 · Sep 9, 2015

Beautiful! Also I agree with you to some point. Like I said I experienced a little nitrogen toxicity during veg with c99 and now she's most likely deprived of it. In think you were the only one to notice that there was yellow at the bottom and in weird spots at the middle defiantly NOT just N def.

Ifarted420 · Sep 9, 2015

The lime has gotten things back to normal. I made sure to add enough to last me the rest of the grow. Last night I fed C99 with 3/4 strength of sensi a (nitrogen) and 1/4 strength sensi B. My soil pH is good, they are fed, waiting for things to fatten up

polishpollack · Sep 9, 2015

The waiting is the hard part and I suspect that it's the reason why people pump so much fert into the grow. It won't speed things up any. You gotta show some patience.

SamsonsRiddle · Sep 9, 2015

Ifarted420 said:
The lime has gotten things back to normal. I made sure to add enough to last me the rest of the grow. Last night I fed C99 with 3/4 strength of sensi a (nitrogen) and 1/4 strength sensi B. My soil pH is good, they are fed, waiting for things to fatten up

st0wandgrow · Sep 9, 2015

weedenhanced said:
Also since u so fucking pro show us some pics of ur grow
And I'll cuss where the fck I like u little cocksucking dumb fck

st0wandgrow · Sep 9, 2015

Dr. Who said:
I agree with you on long running available nutrition coming from larger volumes of available soil. BUT, that's where it ends dude!
I do NOT believe you about a run being done in NOTHING but FFOF!!!! If it made the finish. It was a scruffy weak plant....

I run Water Only super soils that I build.....I do the 2 pot style......1 soil for veg and another for Bloom......I veg in 3 gallon pots and up pot to 10 gallon pots with the bloom soil in place. This "bloom" soil has 3 different Bagged soils used along with a bloom nutrient and 3 different minerals in a mix - including Dolomite to handle the extra needed buffer......Most strains run out fine,,,,,Feed hogs need supplemental feeding at week 3 out to week 7....

FFOF will only supply nutrition out to 4-5 weeks. Happy frog even less.....The average for nutrient amended organic soils is 30 days.....I start some minor nutrient use at 30 or less if the plant shows the need..

In all cases of early yellowing from the bottom up - The grower "failed" by overuse of P&K......This problem, if not dealt with, will continue and increase in speed.....It needs to be countered and stopped as best you can......Water only for a week. Then what many would consider as too high for bloom. Raise the amount of N your feeding and slowly return the P&K at lower ratio's....

In most cases this is not a "cure" so to speak, but a way to "control" the problem so the plant will finish with very acceptable yield rates...

One other point,,,,,No I did not name call and thanks for saying so.....I try to avoid the crude retort....You must remember that the internet makes many feel empowered to be a Red Headed Ass clown!

Doc

I have grown a plant start to finish in FFOF with nothing but water. 3 week veg, 8 week flower. It started fading a bit earlier than I would like, but it finished up just fine.

greasemonkeymann · Sep 9, 2015

polishpollack said:
everyone still fails to acknowledge the fact that the soils the grower used have ferts in them already. adding any nutrients is going to be a mistake. I'd just hit it with some water and see what happens. Leaves go yellow for different reasons, not just nitrogen deficiency. But again, it will be interesting to see what the grower does and what happens. Please come back and tell us this info so we know.
Weedenhanced, is that the best you can do? We've got some name calling now. Good job.
I think the high P and K are the problem. I've seen this pattern before. Phosphorus and Potassium toxicity.

not everyone failed to acknowledge that. I was with ya on post 19.
Don't worry about people bad-mouthing you, the "ignore" feature is damn good, like they don't even exist.
I have I think 12 people on my ignore list.

greasemonkeymann · Sep 9, 2015

Dr. Who said:
I agree with you on long running available nutrition coming from larger volumes of available soil. BUT, that's where it ends dude!
I do NOT believe you about a run being done in NOTHING but FFOF!!!! If it made the finish. It was a scruffy weak plant....

I run Water Only super soils that I build.....I do the 2 pot style......1 soil for veg and another for Bloom......I veg in 3 gallon pots and up pot to 10 gallon pots with the bloom soil in place. This "bloom" soil has 3 different Bagged soils used along with a bloom nutrient and 3 different minerals in a mix - including Dolomite to handle the extra needed buffer......Most strains run out fine,,,,,Feed hogs need supplemental feeding at week 3 out to week 7....

FFOF will only supply nutrition out to 4-5 weeks. Happy frog even less.....The average for nutrient amended organic soils is 30 days.....I start some minor nutrient use at 30 or less if the plant shows the need..

In all cases of early yellowing from the bottom up - The grower "failed" by overuse of P&K......This problem, if not dealt with, will continue and increase in speed.....It needs to be countered and stopped as best you can......Water only for a week. Then what many would consider as too high for bloom. Raise the amount of N your feeding and slowly return the P&K at lower ratio's....

In most cases this is not a "cure" so to speak, but a way to "control" the problem so the plant will finish with very acceptable yield rates...

One other point,,,,,No I did not name call and thanks for saying so.....I try to avoid the crude retort....You must remember that the internet makes many feel empowered to be a Red Headed Ass clown!

Doc

With all due respect I highly disagree with that statement, I've grown many many beautiful plants with water only.
I've done water only in roots (707 and normal), vermifire, ffof and happy frog. With the vermifire being the best, hands down.
given enough room they are totally fine.
beautiful plants and a large yield, they were grown outside in half winebarrels.
I went through a phase where I only watered, the difference I saw were very minimal.
BUT that's in a half winebarrel... those things probably hold 75 gallons of soil.
I also have done water only in 15 gal plastic containers.

Tim Fox · Sep 9, 2015

good read,, bump

SPLFreak808 · Sep 9, 2015

I thought sensi a+b is synthetic right? Anyways pouring that into ocean forest will cause you to start a synthetic feeding program quick. I have also flowered with ffof before. Nothing but epsom salts and water when needed. Yes it worked, no it wasnt worth my time and space for the yield return nor was it worth the money to fill 8 10 gallon containors.

Tim Fox · Sep 9, 2015

SPLFreak808 said:
I thought sensi a+b is synthetic right? Anyways pouring that into ocean forest will cause you to start a synthetic feeding program quick. I have also flowered with ffof before. Nothing but epsom salts and water when needed. Yes it worked, no it wasnt worth my time and space for the yield return nor was it worth the money to fill 8 10 gallon containors.

what do you grow in now SPL

SPLFreak808 · Sep 9, 2015

Tim Fox said:
what do you grow in now SPL

I use recycled FFOF mixed with a small ratio of kelp/soy bean/alfalfa/epsom salts/bone/bat guano sometimes extra dolomitic lime & extra perlite. The bottom layer consist of compost,kelp,oyster,bone,soy bean,volcanic rock,live red worms,small amount of roots organic b2 and fish meal. Not sure if i missed anything, as i change my soil ratio's up every 6 months depending on what strain and where im growing as ive burned some afghani's with this mix already yet my blue dreams loved this shit. I do this because i work 6 days a week from 8am to 7pm, i have no time to mix up nutes and inspect my plant health these days. Hell, im already trying to figure out an auto-watering system so i can just do a 5 minuit indoor check every sunday. I stopped growing outdoor as my backyard got hit the fuck up with spider mites, hawaii is the last place you want spider mites.

Tim Fox · Sep 9, 2015

SPLFreak808 said:
I use recycled FFOF mixed with a small ratio of kelp/soy bean/alfalfa/epsom salts/bone/bat guano sometimes extra dolomitic lime & extra perlite. The bottom layer consist of compost,kelp,oyster,bone,soy bean,volcanic rock,live red worms,small amount of roots organic b2 and fish meal. Not sure if i missed anything, as i change my soil ratio's up every 6 months depending on what strain and where im growing as ive burned some afghani's with this mix already yet my blue dreams loved this shit. I do this because i work 6 days a week from 8am to 7pm, i have no time to mix up nutes and inspect my plant health these days. Hell, im already trying to figure out an auto-watering system so i can just do a 5 minuit indoor check every sunday. I stopped growing outdoor as my backyard got hit the fuck up with spider mites, hawaii is the last place you want spider mites.

Thanks man, thats exactly how I wish to grow going forward

weedenhanced · Sep 10, 2015

Ifarted420 said:
The lime has gotten things back to normal. I made sure to add enough to last me the rest of the grow. Last night I fed C99 with 3/4 strength of sensi a (nitrogen) and 1/4 strength sensi B. My soil pH is good, they are fed, waiting for things to fatten up

Well done hope ur finished product is good as for the dr he knows his shit

Should I just flush?

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