Starting with dank ass feminized genetics is the fool proof way of getting great yields and potency. Clones can bring in pests and diseases.
Ignorance !
Ed Rosenthal talks about clone degeneration in his books. I think I will believe what he says.
Ed has it wrong as far as what he thinks degeneration IS!
Take a seed plant OR a clone plant and keep cloning those down stream.....You WILL find a difference from what you started with when given from another and they're grown out . This is an environmental "shift" ! The way you run your op is inherently different from where either originated from! the plant will contain a Sativa and Indica balance. This balance from the original breading carried out in particular environmental conditions can and does "change" the "look" of the plant quite regularly!
If you run hotter it may begin to run thinner and more taller like a Sativa or vice versa.... You should understand that ANY environmental factor can cause the plant to "shift" it's structure or look as it grows. Successive grows under the same conditions will result in the "shift" staying more in place.
Now give this "shifted" strain to someone who grows in the "as close to it's original" environ as it came from, and it will 'shift" again to be more like the original form. The closer to where it came (condition wise), the closer to the original clone it will "shift" back to.
I say THIS is a VERY mistaken ideal for "clone degeneration" !!!!
I think
@racerboy71 @RM3 @GuyLeDuche would agree here! (many others too)
Now then, as far as vigor.....I have not seen a difference twixt a seed or a clone. (unless you start getting into F5 or beyond seeds from breeding's......I feel very strongly as you get past F4-5 you begin to loose vigor in seeds and it gets worse the deeper you get)
In many, many tests. FEM seeds will out yield straight runs. It would not be a big jump to conclude that clones from each would STILL show that behavior!
I see what you are saying but many clone only strains are used to make seeds of those strains and then those are cloned and so on and on and on....
So? Your point is what? I think your confused on something here. I don't get what your trying to point out.
You mean S1's are made from clone only strains and those seeds are now cloned right?
Again, so what? A clone is a genetic copy of the host - The same DNA. It does not change! If your thinking of "genetic shifting". You MUST have an "out of line" breeding to change it genetically!
I wasn't acting like anything. There are plenty of growers that have discussed this issue with a lot more knowledge than you. You know more than Ed who has traveled the world growing this plant, has more masters degrees than you can count to. When did you publish multiple books on the science of growing cannabis? Where is your SCIENCE to back up your ignorance. I was simply saying that with all of the breeding that has been done a clone only strain is not really needed.
Writing a book makes you an author, not an expert on a subject. Ed does not breed, nor does Ed understand the genetic limits of the subject...... Every author makes mistakes.....He should have said "I believe but could be wrong" as all he did was make an "observation" without scientific backing....
That said, I have spoken to him and respect his work, greatly! Jorge and Gregg made mistakes too! I still respect them!
You understand now better? I gave you the "science" your looking for!
Doc
