Red Dragon & Magic Bud - First CFL grow using "Buds for Less" light set-up

looks good man u think that method will produce more side branching?

WWShadow said:

isn't that cheating? SCRog cheater!!! lol, j/k. hey what ever works best, right! Now is the scrog going to be under the Kessil also (the 2nd one you got) or a different lighting set up?

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Yup, the four clones will be planted in the one large pot under my second Kessil light - this "pre-training" while vegging will let me switch them to 12/12 as soon as I put them under the scrog screen.

rastadred22 said:

looks good man u think that method will produce more side branching?

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I think it will produce more vigorous growth as the growth of the clones won't be interrupted by topping, and LSTing generally produces nice branching.

As they only have to fill a quarter of the area each it should take a lot less time than my original Red Dragon. My original plant is trying to push growth through 4 main branches and multiple side branches ... could partly explain why it is so slow, but the really short internodes is pissing me off.

I've been away for a few days, You got another LED? congratulations bro. Keep the pics coming.

Grumpy Old Dreamer said:

A week since I flipped and ZERO stretching - have you got ant pikkies of your ladies?

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just started a journal on the RD, come check out my sig

jpnspec said:

just started a journal on the RD, come check out my sig

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Nice healthy plants you got there.

3rd November 2010 (Day 57 from seed packet)

When you grow plants under purple lighting it is easy to miss the gradual decline in a plants health, and the Dragon's health has declined and needs fixing pronto.

It really became very noticable when I put a fresh healthy clone next to the pale yellowing plant that the clone came from.

Here is a photo of the clone which has bent nicely to line up with the LST training frame (I should call it ZST ... zero stress training, as no stress was applied other than laying it on its side).



Next is a photo of the main plant, notice how pale/yellowing it is and the two blotches circled - a definite indication that I need to work out WTF is going on.



I was pretty certain that I had seen similar blotches on a site detailing MJ problems, the yellowing could be any number of things.

Scouting around under the canopy I found the evidence that I needed ... showing perfect classic symptoms of Phospherous, Calcium and Magnesium deficiencies.
These three deficiencies are normally present when the pH is too low.

Here is a photo of the tell tale leaf - such a textbook example ...



So now I know the problem(s) I can fix the little fucker.

1st fix is to calibrate my dodgy pH meter - or toss it and get a decent one.
Next I will check the pH of the run off when watered with pH 7 water.
Then I will seriously flush the soil to correctly set the pH.
Then I will water with a Cal/Mag suppliment.
Then I will give it a floliar feed of Epsom Salts.

These issues have delayed my grow and stopped me effectively trialling the LED, but I have definitely learnt a thing or two ... and the four Red Dragon clones will quickly catch and probably overtake the original plant ... and I won't let the clones suffer the same acid soil conditions.

Sorry to all those that are watching how the LED performs, you just need to be patient while I fix the problems.

i am pulling up a chair for this one!!!! i have heard great things about this plant !!! it is said to have 28% thc take sum side pics and has any red started showing yet take care and keep up the good work

I'm sorry to hear about the deficiency G.O.D, but this at least could be part of the reason for the slow growth that you have been seeing.

Hey Grumpy, just wondering how your going to water the pots that are on there side, never seen it done like that but it's pretty sweet should promote some nice branching
an it's good that you found the cal/mag deficiency problem now should be easily fixed with the supplement, looking very nice so far

subscribed pulling up a chair

MasterHemp said:

Hey Grumpy, just wondering how your going to water the pots that are on there side, never seen it done like that but it's pretty sweet should promote some nice branching
an it's good that you found the cal/mag deficiency problem now should be easily fixed with the supplement, looking very nice so far

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Just stand them up and water them, once they have drained then they can lie down again.
I don't know how long I will leave them on their side, the intention is to simply have the plants bend and grow horizontal at which stage they will be fastened to the training frame.
If I leave them on their sides they may not produce as much branching as they would if the main stem was growing horizontally - as always, I am playing around and learning as I go.
I think that the deficiency is more a lock-out rather than the soil missing the nutes, so I think checking (and correcting) the pH situation should unlock what's needed. I'll try that (plus the epsom salt foliar feed) before adding the Cal/Mag suppliment.
My water has so much calcium in it that I get crunchy bits in my coffee

Well, I now know why my plant looks sick ... I diagnosed it perfectly, I was dosing it with acidic waterings and locking out cal, mag and phos.

Just bought pH buffer solutions (4 and 7) to calibrate the piece of Chinese junk that I laughlingly call my pH meter.

Dipped it in the pH 4 solution and it read 4 point fucking 9, which means that while I have been setting my pH at 6.5 I was actually making it about 5.5 or less ... OUCH!!

After calibrating the pH meter for the pH4 solution, I dunked it in pH7 solution and it read 6.8, so I recalibrated it to 4.1 with the pH4 solution and 6.9 with the pH7 solution.

My tapwater that I thought was about pH8.5 is now showing a more respectable pH7.5.

Next on my shopping list will be a part way decent pH meter.

Time to make a coffee and go and flush and fix the poor girl.

Grumpy Old Dreamer said:

Well, I now know why my plant looks sick ... I diagnosed it perfectly, I was dosing it with acidic waterings and locking out cal, mag and phos.

Just bought pH buffer solutions (4 and 7) to calibrate the piece of Chinese junk that I laughlingly call my pH meter.

Dipped it in the pH 4 solution and it read 4 point fucking 9, which means that while I have been setting my pH at 6.5 I was actually making it about 5.5 or less ... OUCH!!

After calibrating the pH meter for the pH4 solution, I dunked it in pH7 solution and it read 6.8, so I recalibrated it to 4.1 with the pH4 solution and 6.9 with the pH7 solution.

My tapwater that I thought was about pH8.5 is now showing a more respectable pH7.5.

Next on my shopping list will be a part way decent pH meter.

Time to make a coffee and go and flush and fix the poor girl.

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Good job my friend

congrats Dr. GOD on that fine work. Many times, I find that if we just chill, sit back and think, we can figure these things out. More times than not, it is PH lock out, especially with growers that have experience. Many stop taking reading because they "have it down pat" and run into problems, or like yourself, old equipment failure. I agree about the lighting making it hard to spot trouble. I recommend a FL or two in every LED grow room, just for that purpose. Plus, it seems to be easier on the eyes.


+REP on that diagnoses and resolution.

Comon peeps, cough up some +rep for G.O.D. He should easily have 3 bars by now with this grow alone.

karri0n said:

Good job my friend

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Serapis said:

congrats Dr. GOD on that fine work. Many times, I find that if we just chill, sit back and think, we can figure these things out. More times than not, it is PH lock out, especially with growers that have experience. Many stop taking reading because they "have it down pat" and run into problems, or like yourself, old equipment failure. I agree about the lighting making it hard to spot trouble. I recommend a FL or two in every LED grow room, just for that purpose. Plus, it seems to be easier on the eyes.


+REP on that diagnoses and resolution.

Comon peeps, cough up some +rep for G.O.D. He should easily have 3 bars by now with this grow alone.

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Thanks for the support and encouragement guys, hopefully the girl will recover and bud up soon, if not she will have to have to go and play in my back garden and let the torture chamber be used for the next victim.

I have just topped my Magic Bud seedling to promote branching to take clones, so that screen won't be needed for at least 8 weeks (2 weeks branching, 3 weeks clone rooting and establishing, 3 weeks LSTing before scrogging).
The Magic Bud is displaying a little deformed growth but hopefully it will grow out of it as it develops. Great results with the Magic Bud so far ... 2 seeds grew deformed and ended up dead and the current one is not perfect ... it better be worth all the shit that they are putting me through

In a couple of weeks we will start seeing the Colloidal Silver Experience as it unfolds ... last night I put 2 of the Red Dragon clones under 12/12 lighting to start producing flowers. These clones are only 3 - 4 inches high but have plenty of nodes and will be bigger when pollinated. I don't want HUGE plants, just 2 small seed bearing ladies to give me maybe 50 or so seeds.
I will be making the Colloidal Silver in 9 days and applying it to a clone on the 10th day.
I expect it to take 2 to 3 weeks to get pollen at which stage the seed bearing clones will have been under 12/12 for 4 to 5 weeks and should have loads of flowers waiting for pollen.

So even though the first Red Dragon is suffering (and maybe recovering) there is plenty of activity to keep me occupied and plenty for me to write about.

Thanks for the +rep

Nice looking pics! Nice job on the 'ZST' nice idea to get the plant to do it naturally must admit i had to wrestle with mine! hehe even damaged the poor euforia as it was such a dense stem- so i might adopt your idea next run

+Rep ^^

Agent Provocateur said:

Nice looking pics! Nice job on the 'ZST' nice idea to get the plant to do it naturally must admit i had to wrestle with mine! hehe even damaged the poor euforia as it was such a dense stem- so i might adopt your idea next run

+Rep ^^

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Thanks Agent P, the ZST is working very well - I have them 2 days on their side and then 2 days upright ... repeat, etc.
The idea is that the side branches will be stimulated into growth when the plant is upright. As soon as they go on their sides again, the growth bends back to the training frame and I just add an new clip to huld it in place.
The trained clones seem to be growing a bit faster than the one left undisturbed.

My 8 clones are now ...
4 are being ZST'd under 20/4 CFL for the SCROG screen
2 are under 12/12 LED to become seed bearing plants
1 is undisturbed under 20/4 CFL and waiting for the Colloidal Silver (just a few days to go)
1 has been topped, still vegging and will be triggered to flower before being given away.

Hey Grumpy. things are getting busy now aye
boring stage is over, now you got more to play around with, sounds like every things going according to plan

MasterHemp said:

Hey Grumpy. things are getting busy now aye
boring stage is over, now you got more to play around with, sounds like every things going according to plan

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... apart from the original plant, she has definitely suffered at my hands and has been stunted and delayed because of the acidic waterings ... but she will survive.

I am more interested in my ZST'd plants and I am sure that they will definitely out-perform the original. AS they have not been topped or stressed in any way they are growing with much more vigor than the topped and tortured original plant.

The 2 clones that are under 12/12 LED are definitely taller than the one left under 20/0 CFL - definitely getting their stretch happening.

I think I'll start making my Colloidal Silver tomorrow and apply it the day after. I'm expecting 2 to 3 weeks before I get pollen and the seed bearers should be plenty big enough by then.

Boring stage is DEFINITELY over, from now till forever I will be busy - so many strains ... too few brain cells.