Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread

[Pattahabi]

I'm still new and learning organics and recycled soil both of my girls that are lacking a few nutes. They're both in black gold potting soil, compost and I mixed in tomato/bloom nutes from jobes which was probably not the greatest but I think my lemon kush is lacking calcium and maybe nitrogen and mag but not totally sure. And my purple widow I'm not totally sure what she's lacking, I've been watering her with Epsom salts and top dressed her with the same tomatoe bloom nutes and they seem to not be bouncing back. They're under a 1000w hps. The lemon kush is 6 weeks into flower and the purple widow is 3 weeks into flower. Once I run out of the jobes tomatoe bloom nutes in going to buy single nutes from down to earth since they're omri listed nutes. If anyone could help me in what they need it would be much appreciated, thanks a head of time.

View attachment 3478517 View attachment 3478518
Purple Widow

View attachment 3478520 View attachment 3478521
Lemon Kush

It looks to me like you have pH issues going on. 6 weeks into flower, I'd probably just hit them with a few strong compost teas. Your one that is 3 weeks into flower, you might try a healthy layer of EWC, and maybe even an alfalfa/kelp tea to give it some quick available nutrients. Just saw you are using epsom salts. I'd be careful with that one. Wen you can, ditch the jobs and pick up some kelp, alfalfa, neem, etc. DTE isn't bad for most stuff. Personally I like the ahimsa neem much better than DTE. Best I can do before coffee lol!

Peace!

P-

 

[ShLUbY]

The lemon kush actually looks like its just aging me to if its at 6 weeks. i wouldn't be upset if it's coming down in 2 weeks. I'm not sure about the purple rider though...

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, i just want to point something obvious out.... when you don't know what the problem is... why give it nutes??? I don't give my plants anything without a pretty good idea of what the problem is. Sometimes you can compound that problem by putting that extra something in the soil... especially if Ph is off and things are unavailable. growweedeasy.com is a decent source for diagnosing a problem by yourself. So, say you find what you're looking for on that site and you have say a manganese deficiency. I would then go to good ol google and type in the following "manganese role in plants"... in the results you should be able to find some more info about what manganese does for the plant, and where it will show signs of deficiency first. multiple positive sources for deficiencies is a good thing and can help you get to the bottom of it faster! Hope you can figure it out!! Always choose those OMRI products when you can because they at least meet some standard.... but sometimes the standard is not great enough remember to read ingredients and be selective about what you put in your garden! if you have some more problems and plants get worse show us some more pics.

 

[ShLUbY]

anyone using a DIY 5 gal bucket cloner?? I was gonna do a 24 hr aloe solution (1.5 cups total of aloe+h20) and soak the stems of the cuts in that for 24 hours... then put them in the auto cloner and use aloe foliars during the process. anyone doing this method or a slight variation of it or are you all just coating the stem with the aloe gel and sticking it in the peat pods? I just seem to like the auto cloner better than the domes.

 

[Joedank]

It looks to me like you have pH issues going on. 6 weeks into flower, I'd probably just hit them with a few strong compost teas. Your one that is 3 weeks into flower, you might try a healthy layer of EWC, and maybe even an alfalfa/kelp tea to give it some quick available nutrients. Just saw you are using epsom salts. I'd be careful with that one. Wen you can, ditch the jobs and pick up some kelp, alfalfa, neem, etc. DTE isn't bad for most stuff. Personally I like the ahimsa neem much better than DTE. Best I can do before coffee lol!

Peace!

P-

man did i burn my tomater plants with ahimsa neem cake and alfalfa top dress... too much ... ooppppssss
i got so many worms in my indoor big containers it turned all my peat into castings . i gotta screen them better or get store bought in the future for indoors . too many worms is no bueno .

casting tea is a good go to for me when i can figure out the problem . i DO "PH" my teas and use ksil as ph up and citric acid as ph down .... it has really helped when feeding "thirsty plants " as the ion concentration is correct so uptake can happen more quickly 5.9-6.5 for veg and 6.3-6.7 for flower has allowed me to reuse soil to good effect without it getting "crazy" out of whack....also lets the plants access nutrents that you "desire" they have more readly...lol.... not quite "organic" but i like massage the cycles a lil just my .02

 

[Mohican]

I am using a Clone King that I modified to have 12 plants.

Tap water, mild nutes, Pro-Tekt and foliar with kelp. Got my first root in 3 days.

I cut them under water to avoid air bubbles (embolism) in the stem. I scrape and split the stem and use root hormone powder.






Cheers,
Mo

 

[nvhak49]

It looks to me like you have pH issues going on. 6 weeks into flower, I'd probably just hit them with a few strong compost teas. Your one that is 3 weeks into flower, you might try a healthy layer of EWC, and maybe even an alfalfa/kelp tea to give it some quick available nutrients. Just saw you are using epsom salts. I'd be careful with that one. Wen you can, ditch the jobs and pick up some kelp, alfalfa, neem, etc. DTE isn't bad for most stuff. Personally I like the ahimsa neem much better than DTE. Best I can do before coffee lol!

Peace!

P-

Yeah I just started brewing a tea last night I'll be watering with it today and hopefully they bounce back. Once I'm out of the jones I won't be using stuff like that anymore. I'll get the few things you've said to get and a few other things and brew some more teas too.

The lemon kush is a 10week flower my last one took 11 so it till has month to go. Thanks for the helps guys I appreciate it.

 

[Mohican]

I just watered the worm bin girl with green tea!

I had an old box of kelp meal that had gotten waterlogged in a container outside. That was a mess!

I tossed the whole box on top of the worm bin and slow soaked it for an hour. This was two days ago. Now the Animal Cookies is stacking like a monster!

I lifted up the box and there are giant worms underneath!

 

[Midwest Weedist]

I'm way late on responding to this. Buut anyways

right i havent been straining mine as i have been top dressing it too, but i'm going to start some foliars so i'll need to strain soon! got three that are around the 3 week mark so i'll be using foliar on them for the next 2 weeks probably.

midwest, do you foliar between waterings? or do you using the blue mats as most seem to now? with blue mats i'd say one can foliar any time one likes? (of course within reason and always before lights off) also with the blue mats... when one waters a tea or whatever one is adding, its not to the point of running out as the soil is already the perfect moisture correct? so i'd be better off just doing a measured amount like 32-48 fl. oz. per 15 gal container??? or do you soak them pretty well. i'd just feel like i was wasting the tea if it ran through....

I used to foliar in between but I've stopped and haven't seen a noticeable difference. With every watering I never water enough to have more than like 1-5% runoff. It's usually my goal to not have run off. Which to me means not using less water per se, just slower and more deliberate watering. If I take my time I can get my medium more saturated than if I flooded the planter or what have you. When I'm in solo cups I'll hold them side ways, upside down, etc just to make sure every spec of soil medium is hydrated.

 

[Mohican]

Animal Cookies plus kelp meal box:





Cheers,
Mo

 

[hyroot]

Hey I'm having issues with this Dark side of the moon. That last few days. When the light comes on all the leaves are praying. It looks great. Then 2 hours later it's drooping like its severely under watered. But it's not. Then the next day it's perky again. Then 2 hours later it's droopy. Last watering I t got an sst.

I've just never seen a plant go back and forth repeatedly like this. I almost thought it was dying the first time it did this. Then it bounced back the next day then back to drooping.



Here's a droopy pic. Notice the tops of the side branching are keeled over so to speak



If it keeps doing this I know won't yield shit.

 

[Joedank]

Hey I'm having issues with this Dark side of the moon. That last few days. When the light comes on all the leaves are praying. It looks great. Then 2 hours later it's drooping like its severely under watered. But it's not. Then the next day it's perky again. Then 2 hours later it's droopy. Last watering I t got an sst.

I've just never seen a plant go back and forth repeatedly like this. I almost thought it was dying the first time it did this. Then it bounced back the next day then back to drooping.



Here's a droopy pic. Notice the tops of the side branching are keeled over so to speak

View attachment 3479462

If it keeps doing this I know won't yield shit.

check into stem or root nemetoads ... scanmask WORKS for that ...

 

[hyroot]

check into stem or root nemetoads ... scanmask WORKS for that ...

I did . I looked for black mold too. Thinking stem rot. But didn't find any. If that was the case it wouldn't bounce back either It got a compost tea the watering before last. . I also dug up the soil in one spot.and the roots looked healthy.

 

[ShLUbY]

crazy, never heard of a plant doing that to that extreme before. Hope she is gonna make it for you!!

 

[Pattahabi]

This is from Teaming with Microbes and in a nut shell is why I suggested EWC and compost teas for plants having uptake issues.

What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don’t) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant’s rhizosphere by the plant’s exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.

So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn’t have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.

I do not advocate pH'ing of any kind in an organic soil. However, that's just how I skin my cat.

Peace!

P-

 

[Joedank]

This is from Teaming with Microbes and in a nut shell is why I suggested EWC and compost teas for plants having uptake issues.

What soil growers need to know (and hydroponics growers don’t) is that the type of bacteria and fungi attracted to a plant’s rhizosphere by the plant’s exudates has a lot to do with setting this optimal pH. Bacteria produce a slim that raises the pH, and fungi produce acids that lower the pH. Since the plant is in control of the biology it attracts, in a natural system, it is the plant that determines the pH, and not some chemistry teacher.

So, while you may forget the chemistry of pH, at least remember there is a biological side. Do no harm to it, and you shouldn’t have to worry much about pH when you grow plants in soil. Moreover, the nutrient exchanges that occur above also have a lot to do with what kind of bacteria and fungi are attracted to the root zone as some like higher pH and others lower pH.

I do not advocate pH'ing of any kind in an organic soil. However, that's just how I skin my cat.

Peace!

P-

that is poor advice to give someone using a "bottled nute"
i have found this quote aimed at real earth farmers NOT soilless .
we are using a "soiless media " almost across the board . very few folks use soil from the earth . so as such .
i have seen un ph'ed soil go from 6.5 to 4.5 hydrogen ion concentration , thus rendering it unuseable . no amount of compost of innoculation will help .
was just offred a whole traincar full of "wasted soil" from a local disp. i sent the soil test to logan for reccomendations . they said the bound phos and potassium will be no bueno for adding any sort of calcium product to alter ph .
BUT they said adding it to my home dirt in the yard would be fine as the worms nemetoads and fungi would correct any issues....

 

[Joedank]

I did . I looked for black mold too. Thinking stem rot. But didn't find any. If that was the case it wouldn't bounce back either It got a compost tea the watering before last. . I also dug up the soil in one spot.and the roots looked healthy.

ok thats really good . i have had this happen in outdoor plants . the causes have been varied .
the plants leaves look good . have you tried drying it out till it was light as air just once see if it thrips . or root aphids..

 

[Pattahabi]

that is poor advice to give someone using a "bottled nute"
i have found this quote aimed at real earth farmers NOT soilless .
we are using a "soiless media " almost across the board . very few folks use soil from the earth . so as such .
i have seen un ph'ed soil go from 6.5 to 4.5 hydrogen ion concentration , thus rendering it unuseable . no amount of compost of innoculation will help .
was just offred a whole traincar full of "wasted soil" from a local disp. i sent the soil test to logan for reccomendations . they said the bound phos and potassium will be no bueno for adding any sort of calcium product to alter ph .
BUT they said adding it to my home dirt in the yard would be fine as the worms nemetoads and fungi would correct any issues....

Terrible advise eh? I've used this method many times to fix soil that plants wouldn't grow well in. pH'ing compost teas is not good for the microbes. Ask Microbeman. I didn't quote your post for a reason. We aren't going to agree on the compost teas. So rather than getting crappy with you, I'm going to agree to disagree. This is the ROLS thread, we are growing in a living organic soil where the plants and microbes dictate the pH of the soil. Myself and many others have been growing with the same soil using these techniques for years. So to each their own, but I think you're a little out of line on your terrible advise comment.

@nvhak49 are you using bottled nutes?

Edit: From MicrobeOrganics.com "In my opinion manipulation of the pH is not a wise practice in natural growing unless dramatic acidity or alkalinity are measured. Soil with a healthy microbial population tends to self regulate the pH."

P-

 

[Joedank]

Terrible advise eh? I've used this method many times to fix soil that plants wouldn't grow well in. pH'ing compost teas is not good for the microbes. Ask Microbeman. I didn't quote your post for a reason. We aren't going to agree on the compost teas. So rather than getting crappy with you, I'm going to agree to disagree. This is the ROLS thread, we are growing in a living organic soil where the plants and microbes dictate the pH of the soil. Myself and many others have been growing with the same soil using these techniques for years. So to each their own, but I think you're a little out of line on your terrible advise comment.

@nvhak49 are you using bottled nutes?

Edit: From MicrobeOrganics.com "In my opinion manipulation of the pH is not a wise practice in natural growing unless dramatic acidity or alkalinity are measured. Soil with a healthy microbial population tends to self regulate the pH."



P-

based on that quote you posted we are of a like mind more than you think....lol....
i am talking 100 to 1000 times the rith hydrogen ion concentration withch anyone useing bokashi should know . a full brewed batch is like 4.5-5.0.... i add ksil cuz it works better ... guess i am speaking to diffrent folks
"
Now if you have a thimble-full of the water and it has a pH of 1 (it's unbelievably, instantly, fish-killingly acidic), there will be one million times (10 to the power of 6, written 106) more hydrogen ions than there would be if the water were neutral (neither acidic nor alkaline), with a pH of 7. That's because a pH of 1 means 101 (which is just 10), and a pH of 7 means 107 (10 million), so dividing the two gives us 106 (one million). There will be 10 million million (1013) more hydrogen ions than if the water were extremely alkaline, with a pH of 14. Maybe you can start to see now where those mysterious pH numbers come from?"

 

[Pattahabi]

based on that quote you posted we are of a like mind more than you think....lol....
i am talking 100 to 1000 times the rith hydrogen ion concentration withch anyone useing bokashi should know . a full brewed batch is like 4.5-5.0.... i add ksil cuz it works better ... guess i am speaking to diffrent folks
"
Now if you have a thimble-full of the water and it has a pH of 1 (it's unbelievably, instantly, fish-killingly acidic), there will be one million times (10 to the power of 6, written 106) more hydrogen ions than there would be if the water were neutral (neither acidic nor alkaline), with a pH of 7. That's because a pH of 1 means 101 (which is just 10), and a pH of 7 means 107 (10 million), so dividing the two gives us 106 (one million). There will be 10 million million (1013) more hydrogen ions than if the water were extremely alkaline, with a pH of 14. Maybe you can start to see now where those mysterious pH numbers come from?"

I am very familiar with how pH works. I don't like to be told that I'm giving terrible advise, especially when it is advise that I have personally, as well as others, have used with excellent results. It's what the founders of the ROLS threads preach - Coot, MM, Bluejay, etc. When we have a living soil, we let the soil do the work and we LITFA. Do no harm to your microbes and they tend to balance the soil. When people add questionable compost, jobs nutes, etc, etc they disrupt the balance of the soil.

On another note, citric acid, and other pH adjusters, kill bacteria and microbes. I can not fathom why we would go through the work of breeding microbes, only to add something that kills them? I could be wrong here, but I have never heard MM, Elaine Ingham, or any other microbe people saying to pH balance your compost teas.

My 2¢,

P-

 

[Joedank]

I am very familiar with how pH works. I don't like to be told that I'm giving terrible advise, especially when it is advise that I have personally, as well as others, have used with excellent results. It's what the founders of the ROLS threads preach - Coot, MM, Bluejay, etc. When we have a living soil, we let the soil do the work and we LITFA. Do no harm to your microbes and they tend to balance the soil. When people add questionable compost, jobs nutes, etc, etc they disrupt the balance of the soil.

On another note, citric acid, and other pH adjusters, kill bacteria and microbes. I can not fathom why we would go through the work of breeding microbes, only to add something that kills them? I could be wrong here, but I have never heard MM, Elaine Ingham, or any other microbe people saying to pH balance your compost teas.

My 2¢,

P-

quote me correctly , i said "poor advice" meaning what i would say to a grower with a closed mind... poor guy ... lol i know your not like that...
your opinion is most respected by me . it makes me think on subjects harder my reasooning for citric acid is summed up here and is contrary to your opinion . i hope mine is based in FACT though....
Organic, carbon-based citric acid also acts as a potential food source for your beneficial microbes (they feed on carbon). This will help keep your “good” microbe population happy, while avoiding unhealthy, anaerobic conditions.

The best part of all is that citric acid really works. In fact, it does all of the “good” things that mineral acids do, but in a much gentler fashion. It also does some things that mineral acids aren’t able to.

Unlike mineral acids, Citric acid will not change your N-P-K ratio. How does this work? Well, nitric acid contains nitrogen. With Phosphoric acid, you’ve got phosphorus. And with sulfuric acid, you’re adding sulfur. By using citric acid, you’ll get its acidifying benefits, without adding additional nutrient sources, so there’s no need to rethink your N-P-Ks after applying it.

Citric acid also helps chelate essential minerals that are bound up in the soil. Applications of citric acid will take these insoluble, oxidized micronutrients and make them available for uptake and use by your turf. Citric acid is also part of the Krebs cycle, and transports micronutrients through the xylem.