Joedank
Well-Known Member
i agree here . less is more . topdressing is king at my house .... the tendency to make colloidal "soup" of soilish stuff is almost overwhelming till you read Albrecht's work...
Recycled Organic Living Soil (ROLS) and No Till Thread
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ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
but it's the natural human instinct.... more more more lol. It's a bitch to fight your own instincts. take a step back.
Question... I read about topdressing with a good layer of EWC when transplanting into ROLS. Why would one not topdress with the exact soil mixture that is already in the pot? just seems like that's the way it occurs in nature... same layers year after year (within succession stages of the land of course).
Joedank
Well-Known Member
well i disagree with the whole layer of worm . i am using a mix of my own mostly alfalfa and comfrey greenchop with fish bone meal , basalt rock dust (for fungal hyphe) , and gypsum i used the worm in teas and top dress it spareingly as the worms have rendered it uneatable by them and it closes pores with all its humis. i imagine it is quite unnatural but plants love it and it is pocket book friendly . the brix stay high with foliars of soy bean"N" and calcium....
i am testing a living mulch of crimson clover and pulled some up it had nitro fixed nodules after only one month kinda cool
your question is a good one . crown rot is my main concern with too much "soil" on top of good roots and crowns . but if your not growing trees its would be fine to keep the nutrients cycleing ..
FWIW i am using a free bag of the "build a flower" topdress kit from BAS . its kicking ass . seems about 1/3 EWC so about as much as i would use in my own life . really dissapears fast from the top too i think its the comfrey..everything loves that stuff including me...
i am testing a living mulch of crimson clover and pulled some up it had nitro fixed nodules after only one month kinda cool
your question is a good one . crown rot is my main concern with too much "soil" on top of good roots and crowns . but if your not growing trees its would be fine to keep the nutrients cycleing ..
FWIW i am using a free bag of the "build a flower" topdress kit from BAS . its kicking ass . seems about 1/3 EWC so about as much as i would use in my own life . really dissapears fast from the top too i think its the comfrey..everything loves that stuff including me...
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
well i disagree with the whole layer of worm . i am using a mix of my own mostly alfalfa and comfrey greenchop with fish bone meal , basalt rock dust (for fungal hyphe) , and gypsum i used the worm in teas and top dress it spareingly as the worms have rendered it uneatable by them and it closes pores with all its humis. i imagine it is quite unnatural but plants love it and it is pocket book friendly . the brix stay high with foliars of soy bean"N" and calcium....
i am testing a living mulch of crimson clover and pulled some up it had nitro fixed nodules after only one month kinda cool
your question is a good one . crown rot is my main concern with too much "soil" on top of good roots and crowns . but if your not growing trees its would be fine to keep the nutrients cycleing ..
FWIW i am using a free bag of the "build a flower" topdress kit from BAS . its kicking ass . seems about 1/3 EWC so about as much as i would use in my own life . really dissapears fast from the top too i think its the comfrey..everything loves that stuff including me...
lol what does one consider a "tree"? with the pot included I can't go taller than ~4.5-5ft (bushed out of course). Im going to be pushing the height limits constantly as I like to keep the yield as high as possible (no pun intended). If I can continue to do 6-8 per plant i'll be a happy guy! i've gotten a taste for what these 600 watters can do and light for light i very often out produce my friends that use 1000w (always thought they were EXTREMELY unnecessary as the sun doesn't even hit the earth surface @ 1000w/cu. m.)
so are you saying you have a base recipe soil for the bulk of it (what's in the planter), and when you harvest and replant into ROLS your mulch is basically a mix of botanicals, rock dust, fishbone meal instead of just more base soil mix?
Joedank
Well-Known Member
tree for me is 5 + feet talll and wide . as they age roots can become more suceptable to rot .IME.
YES i top dress all those things while the last plant was growing . so the next plant gets chelated nutes sort of...lol
then mix em in and replant ...
AllDayToker
Well-Known Member
Hey guys, long time no see.
So I've been using this Jobe's Proven Winners Plant Food for a while now. I top dress when they start popping pistils and I get great results. As of lately it seems to be slowly dwendling off the market, and struggling to find it now.
I'm wondering if you guys could help me make something up that is similar. It says it has bacteria, mycorrhizal, fungi, and Archaea for the microorganisms. All I do for microbes is a simple worm castings tea. I also have some rooters myco that I use usually just during a transplant.
Any ideas?
So I've been using this Jobe's Proven Winners Plant Food for a while now. I top dress when they start popping pistils and I get great results. As of lately it seems to be slowly dwendling off the market, and struggling to find it now.
I'm wondering if you guys could help me make something up that is similar. It says it has bacteria, mycorrhizal, fungi, and Archaea for the microorganisms. All I do for microbes is a simple worm castings tea. I also have some rooters myco that I use usually just during a transplant.
Any ideas?
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
"In recent years, researchers have conducted several controlled studies to compare organic and conventional foods with respect to
nutritionalcomposition(Table2).Somestudieshaveconcludedthat organic production methods lead to increases in nutrients, partic- ularly organic acids and polyphenolic compounds, many of which are considered to have potential human health benefits as antiox- idants. However, other studies did not demonstrate differences in nutrients between organic and conventional production methods.
Two major hypotheses explaining the possible increases in or- ganic acids and polyphenolics in organic versus conventional foods have been proposed. One hypothesis considers the impacts of differ- ent fertilization practices on plant metabolism. In conventional agri- culture, synthetic fertilizers frequently make nitrogen more avail- able for the plants than do the organic fertilizers and may accelerate plant growth and development. Therefore, plant resources are allo- cated for growth purposes, resulting in a decrease in the production of plant secondary metabolites (compounds not essential to the life of the plant) such as organic acids, polyphenolics, chlorophyll, and amino acids.
The second hypothesis considers the responses of plants to stressful environments such as attacks from insects, weeds, and plant pathogens. It has been argued that organic production methods—which are limited in the use of insecticides, herbicides, and fungicides to control plant pests—may put greater stresses on plants and may require plants to devote greater resources toward the synthesis of their own chemical defense mechanisms. Increases in antioxidants such as plant polyphenolics have been attributed to their production in plant defense (Asami and others 2003), al- though the same mechanisms may result in the elevations of other plant secondary metabolites that may be of toxicological rather than nutritional significance."
http://ecochildsplay.com/2012/03/15/organic-vs-conventional-is-the-proof-is-in-the-nutrition/
Interesting stuff!
nutritionalcomposition(Table2).Somestudieshaveconcludedthat organic production methods lead to increases in nutrients, partic- ularly organic acids and polyphenolic compounds, many of which are considered to have potential human health benefits as antiox- idants. However, other studies did not demonstrate differences in nutrients between organic and conventional production methods.
Two major hypotheses explaining the possible increases in or- ganic acids and polyphenolics in organic versus conventional foods have been proposed. One hypothesis considers the impacts of differ- ent fertilization practices on plant metabolism. In conventional agri- culture, synthetic fertilizers frequently make nitrogen more avail- able for the plants than do the organic fertilizers and may accelerate plant growth and development. Therefore, plant resources are allo- cated for growth purposes, resulting in a decrease in the production of plant secondary metabolites (compounds not essential to the life of the plant) such as organic acids, polyphenolics, chlorophyll, and amino acids.
The second hypothesis considers the responses of plants to stressful environments such as attacks from insects, weeds, and plant pathogens. It has been argued that organic production methods—which are limited in the use of insecticides, herbicides, and fungicides to control plant pests—may put greater stresses on plants and may require plants to devote greater resources toward the synthesis of their own chemical defense mechanisms. Increases in antioxidants such as plant polyphenolics have been attributed to their production in plant defense (Asami and others 2003), al- though the same mechanisms may result in the elevations of other plant secondary metabolites that may be of toxicological rather than nutritional significance."
http://ecochildsplay.com/2012/03/15/organic-vs-conventional-is-the-proof-is-in-the-nutrition/
Interesting stuff!
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
the second hypothesis seems very spot on to me but heck, we'll let them figure it out
Sorry this is outta nowhere but just allowing the cannabis to let me think... I remember back to a post (not sure if it was this thread or some other one) but I recall someone adding some animal fats to their compost. not much at all, from what I remember. But I recall them talking about carbohydrates in the compost due to the fats being broken down (into glycerol and fatty acids which then break further into carbs and other shit i think)...
1) has anyone tried adding coconut (i was eating a coconut at this time) or any other seed oil to their compost for this purpose....
2) I literally had this brainstorm while i was typing this post... Now as I am taught, the plant produces it's own carbohydrate so i don't see what the benefit of adding carbs to the soil (please tell me if i am wrong)... but what about the almighty fungi??? Since they rely on the plant to supply them with carbohydrate, would they colonize faster with carbohydrate from fat being broken down in the compost?
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
I just tossed some coconut shells from young coconuts in a compost pile yesterday, time will tell how well they break down.the second hypothesis seems very spot on to me but heck, we'll let them figure it out
Sorry this is outta nowhere but just allowing the cannabis to let me think... I remember back to a post (not sure if it was this thread or some other one) but I recall someone adding some animal fats to their compost. not much at all, from what I remember. But I recall them talking about carbohydrates in the compost due to the fats being broken down (into glycerol and fatty acids which then break further into carbs and other shit i think)...
1) has anyone tried adding coconut (i was eating a coconut at this time) or any other seed oil to their compost for this purpose....
2) I literally had this brainstorm while i was typing this post... Now as I am taught, the plant produces it's own carbohydrate so i don't see what the benefit of adding carbs to the soil (please tell me if i am wrong)... but what about the almighty fungi??? Since they rely on the plant to supply them with carbohydrate, would they colonize faster with carbohydrate from fat being broken down in the compost?
I remember who you referencing, but can't remember their username for the life of me. That specific posting was like 10 pages back or so I believe.
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
im talkin oil here though, not carbon (shells). those shells are gonna take forever. i decided today that i'm going to use my half shells as seed starter pots lol. they should work
try fish oils. Fungus goes crazy for fishthe second hypothesis seems very spot on to me but heck, we'll let them figure it out
Sorry this is outta nowhere but just allowing the cannabis to let me think... I remember back to a post (not sure if it was this thread or some other one) but I recall someone adding some animal fats to their compost. not much at all, from what I remember. But I recall them talking about carbohydrates in the compost due to the fats being broken down (into glycerol and fatty acids which then break further into carbs and other shit i think)...
1) has anyone tried adding coconut (i was eating a coconut at this time) or any other seed oil to their compost for this purpose....
2) I literally had this brainstorm while i was typing this post... Now as I am taught, the plant produces it's own carbohydrate so i don't see what the benefit of adding carbs to the soil (please tell me if i am wrong)... but what about the almighty fungi??? Since they rely on the plant to supply them with carbohydrate, would they colonize faster with carbohydrate from fat being broken down in the compost?
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
"hey mom, do you have an extra aloe plant i can have??" This is what she brings me! lol. It's a little messy IMO, and hasn't been drinking much water at all. I would think i should divide a bunch of it up into separate pots or one no-till bed with spacing between each plant? Come on you experienced aloe growers... i don't wanna be buying powder, i just want to harvest my own, and grow these fillets as big as i can with this variety. I plan on consuming some myself! also, any tips on preparation for me or my plants? i've just been going with the slice in half and scrape with one smooth knife stroke to get the flesh out. works pretty good and my plants are loving it so far.
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drekoushranada
Well-Known Member
I must say I never seen that before. Haha. Looks pretty cool. I would divide it up as you stated.
zonderkop
Well-Known Member
i did it that way at first, but then i just chopped it all in my blender and strained it. the strained bits went to the worms.
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
genius!!! going to just do that from now on because it's a little time consuming to do scrape method. plus i'll get more outta these smaller pieces until i get these plants repotted this weekend.
Midwest Weedist
Well-Known Member
I do this except that I technically topdress with the aloe flesh bits as I don't strain mine. It get a consumed in less than a day so I assume the microorganisms love it.
ShLUbY
Well-Known Member
right i havent been straining mine as i have been top dressing it too, but i'm going to start some foliars so i'll need to strain soon! got three that are around the 3 week mark so i'll be using foliar on them for the next 2 weeks probably.
midwest, do you foliar between waterings? or do you using the blue mats as most seem to now? with blue mats i'd say one can foliar any time one likes? (of course within reason and always before lights off) also with the blue mats... when one waters a tea or whatever one is adding, its not to the point of running out as the soil is already the perfect moisture correct? so i'd be better off just doing a measured amount like 32-48 fl. oz. per 15 gal container??? or do you soak them pretty well. i'd just feel like i was wasting the tea if it ran through....
midwest, do you foliar between waterings? or do you using the blue mats as most seem to now? with blue mats i'd say one can foliar any time one likes? (of course within reason and always before lights off) also with the blue mats... when one waters a tea or whatever one is adding, its not to the point of running out as the soil is already the perfect moisture correct? so i'd be better off just doing a measured amount like 32-48 fl. oz. per 15 gal container??? or do you soak them pretty well. i'd just feel like i was wasting the tea if it ran through....
nvhak49
Well-Known Member
I'm still new and learning organics and recycled soil both of my girls that are lacking a few nutes. They're both in black gold potting soil, compost and I mixed in tomato/bloom nutes from jobes which was probably not the greatest but I think my lemon kush is lacking calcium and maybe nitrogen and mag but not totally sure. And my purple widow I'm not totally sure what she's lacking, I've been watering her with Epsom salts and top dressed her with the same tomatoe bloom nutes and they seem to not be bouncing back. They're under a 1000w hps. The lemon kush is 6 weeks into flower and the purple widow is 3 weeks into flower. Once I run out of the jobes tomatoe bloom nutes in going to buy single nutes from down to earth since they're omri listed nutes. If anyone could help me in what they need it would be much appreciated, thanks a head of time.
Purple Widow
Lemon Kush
Purple Widow
Lemon Kush
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I would go with a compost tea since you've given them nutes. They might not be available fast enough. Or maybe your pots are too small.
Try fish hydrolysate. It is my go to fert along with worm castings, alfalfa, crab/shrimp shell, neem, kelp, and gypsum.
Gypsum would work fast for calcium and include much needed sulfur. Crab shell has calcium and nitrogen, and fish hydrolysate has a little nitrogen. Neem has a bunch of nitrogen and worms love it. alfalfa would work, never had a problem in flower but only use a little. I would start it as a tea and topdress the leftovers if you use alfalfa.
You can make teas with any of the above for instant nutrient boosts during the grow. Go for the bases and bubble 24 hours min and pour it on.
nvhak49
Well-Known Member
Oh ok cool I'll get a bucket or tote and make some teas, I dunno why I didn't think of that earlier. Should I dilute the tea before watering? They're in 5gallon smart pots I didn't have any issues my last cycle but this is my first time running these strains in a organic soil mix.