Reasons to Vote yes on Prop 19

Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
you missed the OR and several of the things you say aren't worthy are listed in the wording, including headaches and asthma.

you can deny it all you want, but you are still wrong. prop 215 was written so anyone could get a card. and it IS a dr who prescribes it, not a law.
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That is what the law has BECOME today. That was not it's intent when it was written and passed by the voters. It was originally passed so that seriously ill Californians could legally use MJ to alleviate suffering. That is why it was called the compassionate Use law. Today, people with allergies to smoke can get a card. It's because of that mindset that many are against prop 19. Nearly every person against it on RIU has a MMJ card. I find that very odd considering 19 doesn't even affect 215 gardens or possession amounts. They have the mentality of "I have mine, get your own" and fear 19 is coming to take away their recreational drugs. I think more of them would be pro 19 if California rewrote 215 to only allow terminally ill and excessive suffering patients access to MMJ. California has become the joke of the MMJ industry. dispensaries popping up left and right with exotic offerings and pain clinics that have such URLs as www.thcclinic.com or www.clinic420.com and advertise prices for "Dr's rec's" (new street slang for 'papers') make it obvious that many are profiting from the law while California has a huge budget shortfall. Prop 19 makes sense in retrospect.
 
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fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Serapis said:
That is what the law has BECOME today. That was not it's intent when it was written and passed by the voters. It was originally passed so that seriously ill Californians could legally use MJ to alleviate suffering. That is why it was called the compassionate Use law. Today, people with allergies to smoke can get a card. It's because of that mindset that many are against prop 19. Nearly every person against it on RIU has a MMJ card. I find that very odd considering 19 doesn't even affect 215 gardens or possession amounts. They have the mentality of "I have mine, get your own" and fear 19 is coming to take away their recreational drugs. I think more of them would be pro 19 if California rewrote 215 to only allow terminally ill and excessive suffering patients access to MMJ. California has become the joke of the MMJ industry. dispensaries popping up left and right with exotic offerings and pain clinics that have such URLs as www.thcclinic.com or www.clinic420.com and advertise prices for "Dr's rec's" (new street slang for 'papers') make it obvious that many are profiting from the law while California has a huge budget shortfall. Prop 19 makes sense in retrospect.
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no sir, that is how the law was written. it was done that way on purpose. just because you deny it doesn't make you right. ;)

talk to dennis peron and then get back to me. :)
 
tc1

tc1

Well-Known Member
I don't remember any "Medical Marijuana is for everyone" posters during the Prop 215 campaign.


I remember a lot of "Don't send cancer and aid patients to prison" posters though .....
 
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fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
tc1 said:
I don't remember any "Medical Marijuana is for everyone" posters during the Prop 215 campaign.


I remember a lot of "Don't send cancer and aid patients to prison" posters though .....
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yet today anyone can get a card. :)
 
Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
yet today anyone can get a card. :)
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Which is exactly my point. Because of that fucked up attitude, many of you are against 19. Had the original intent of 215 survived, you guys would be falling over each other to vote yes on 19. I suggest you guys step back and take it into perspective. 215 is NOT FOR EVERYONE, 19 is! At any time now, California can decide to crack down on BS pain centers, dispensaries and quack Dr's that issue rec's for colds. I hope it happens soon, and I hope all you anti 19 people feel it first.

FDD2 is real cute with his whimsical come backs, but when reality cuts to the chase, many of you should not have cards or gardens. The law was passed for compassionate use, not BS use or abuse. I love my weed, but I'm man enough to stand my ground and demand that access be given to everyone, not just the fuckers faking headaches or paying $150 for a BS scam Dr's rec AND THEN MARCHING AROUND WITH ANTI-19 posters! What frauds they are!

The only reason ANYONE can get a card today, Mr FDD2blk, is because of FRAUD and ABUSE. plain and simple. Defend it however you wish. 19 has the other people in mind, the recreational users that man up and refuse to abuse a compassionate use law. The rest of you can Dr shop and pay for your paperwork. You aren't fooling anyone.
 
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fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Serapis said:
Which is exactly my point. Because of that fucked up attitude, many of you are against 19. Had the original intent of 215 survived, you guys would be falling over each other to vote yes on 19. I suggest you guys step back and take it into perspective. 215 is NOT FOR EVERYONE, 19 is! At any time now, California can decide to crack down on BS pain centers, dispensaries and quack Dr's that issue rec's for colds. I hope it happens soon, and I hope all you anti 19 people feel it first.

FDD2 is real cute with his whimsical come backs, but when reality cuts to the chase, many of you should not have cards or gardens. The law was passed for compassionate use, not BS use or abuse. I love my weed, but I'm man enough to stand my ground and demand that access be given to everyone, not just the fuckers faking headaches or paying $150 for a BS scam Dr's rec AND THEN MARCHING AROUND WITH ANTI-19 posters! What frauds they are!

The only reason ANYONE can get a card today, Mr FDD2blk, is because of FRAUD and ABUSE. plain and simple. Defend it however you wish. 19 has the other people in mind, the recreational users that man up and refuse to abuse a compassionate use law. The rest of you can Dr shop and pay for your paperwork. You aren't fooling anyone.
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you do not know me or my medical condition. you should watch yourself. it's rather rude.

talk to dennis peron about 215 and get back to me. you do know who dennis is don't you?
 
Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
you do not know me or my medical condition. you should watch yourself. it's rather rude.

talk to dennis peron about 215 and get back to me. you do know who dennis is don't you?
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No reason for you to get defensive, I NEVER accused you of fraud or abuse, I stated that the only reason ANYONE can get a card is because of fraud or abuse. Read into it whatever you want, but I think the number of doc rec shops that have popped up sum it up quite nicely. And it is obvious to me that the majority of anti 19 people on RIU have cards. Coincidence? I'm not accusing anyone here, but we both know abuse of 215 is rampant. If it weren't, there would be no need for 215 pain clinics.
 
Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
" you guys", "the rest of you" does not mean YOU, I'm referring to Cali in general. Sorry you took personal offense, that was not my intention.
 
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fdd2blk

Well-Known Member
Serapis said:
No reason for you to get defensive, I NEVER accused you of fraud or abuse, I stated that the only reason ANYONE can get a card is because of fraud or abuse. Read into it whatever you want, but I think the number of doc rec shops that have popped up sum it up quite nicely. And it is obvious to me that the majority of anti 19 people on RIU have cards. Coincidence? I'm not accusing anyone here, but we both know abuse of 215 is rampant. If it weren't, there would be no need for 215 pain clinics.
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i don't see anyone screaming "abuse" other than stoners who have some issue with paying for a card.

"i refuse to pay a DR for a card, but bring on taxes and i'll line right up to pay that."
 
veggiegardener

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
The biggest threat to a young person's health is law enforcement.

A recommendation is insurance against a busted skull.

Prop 19 just gives the LEOs a way to bust more skulls.

Is there ANYONE that thinks their jurisdiction will choose to increase your grow area or possession limits?

My city is 40% Mormon. If 19 passes, I'm betting things won't be better.
 
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growone

Well-Known Member
veggiegardener said:
The biggest threat to a young person's health is law enforcement.

A recommendation is insurance against a busted skull.

Prop 19 just gives the LEOs a way to bust more skulls.

Is there ANYONE that thinks their jurisdiction will choose to increase your grow area or possession limits?

My city is 40% Mormon. If 19 passes, I'm betting things won't be better.
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i'd tend to think you're right about central california, the 1 oz and 25 sq ft is what you will get
probably true for most of california except for the northern counties
but this should appeal to the growers that have such a hard time with 19
the immediate changes will be modest, it will take time for acceptance as people gradually forget why they thought legal MJ would bring a collapse in social order
most will get their closet grow with a bit more peace of mind
 
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growone

Well-Known Member
veggiegardener said:
So, spend $40,000 a year until the locals wake up?

FUCK THAT.
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i'm guessing you're referring to RC's proposed tax on MJ gardens?
that will apply to prop 19 or prop 215 gardens, if it passes, and it doesn't get blown away in the courts
from what i've seen, the RC tax originators aren't all that optimistic it will pass
and prop 19 doesn't matter here, they're trying to tax 215 gardens too, irrespective of whether prop 19 passes
the tax is a stretch, i forget the rate they've proposed $600 per sq ft?
their rationale is these gardens require extra police, fire, emergency services
they're going have to provide good evidence that these numbers are real, not something they've pulled out of their asses, when it gets challenged in court
 
Serapis

Serapis

Well-Known Member
fdd2blk said:
i don't see anyone screaming "abuse" other than stoners who have some issue with paying for a card.

"i refuse to pay a DR for a card, but bring on taxes and i'll line right up to pay that."
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They should just decriminalize it for all then. That would put all of the 'pain' clinics out of operation and the state could tax it for sale like cigarettes. Those that grow their own can pay a tax for every oz they have in possession. If your crop looks like it may come in dry at 1200 grams, you pay the appropriate tax and get stamps to put on your shit. That way, the only law you would be breaking is state tax evasion if you choose not to pay. The sick would be exempt from taxation of weed, but only the seriously ill, unless all prescrip meds are tax free.

Let's be realistic.... The only way Cali and following states would even consider decriminalizing MJ is if they can increase their coffers in these tough economic times.
 
veggiegardener

veggiegardener

Well-Known Member
growone said:
i'm guessing you're referring to RC's proposed tax on MJ gardens?
that will apply to prop 19 or prop 215 gardens, if it passes, and it doesn't get blown away in the courts
from what i've seen, the RC tax originators aren't all that optimistic it will pass
and prop 19 doesn't matter here, they're trying to tax 215 gardens too, irrespective of whether prop 19 passes
the tax is a stretch, i forget the rate they've proposed $600 per sq ft?
their rationale is these gardens require extra police, fire, emergency services
they're going have to provide good evidence that these numbers are real, not something they've pulled out of their asses, when it gets challenged in court
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NOPE!

I currently grow for myself and three others. My wife is a huge consumer. Saturation levels to prevent the return of cancer, and pain relief for several other issues. Steve Kubby is the only person we know that consumes more. The $40k is the cost of replacing the meds I wouldn't be able to produce due to the 25 sq. ft. limit.
 
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growone

Well-Known Member
veggiegardener said:
NOPE!

I currently grow for myself and three others. My wife is a huge consumer. Saturation levels to prevent the return of cancer, and pain relief for several other issues. Steve Kubby is the only person we know that consumes more. The $40k is the cost of replacing the meds I wouldn't be able to produce due to the 25 sq. ft. limit.
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understood that you don't want your 215 rights endangered
you have convinced yourself that 19 does that
i can't understand the logic that has led you to your conclusion, but it is certainly up to you to make that call
best of luck for your wife's continued health
but remember we are on the same side here, even if it gets hard to see with all heated exchanges that take place over this topic
 
TokinPodPilot

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
growone said:
understood that you don't want your 215 rights endangered
you have convinced yourself that 19 does that
i can't understand the logic that has led you to your conclusion, but it is certainly up to you to make that call
best of luck for your wife's continued health
but remember we are on the same side here, even if it gets hard to see with all heated exchanges that take place over this topic
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It's pretty plainly expressed in the bill. People v. Kelly ruled limits in H&SC 11362.775 as unconstitutional since they were introduced as state legislation, which cannot be used to limit voter initiative. Part of the ruling was also the determination that only another voter initiative can limit or change existing voter initiative legislation. Prop. 19, a voter initiative, very clearly states which sections of the H&SC in which medical allowances are expressly permitted, which includes 11362.775.
 
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growone

Well-Known Member
this is excerpted from the purposes section of prop 19
i interpret this as meaning limits for medical grows are not to be affected by prop 19, i also interpret the scope of this to apply to the whole of the proposition

7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. 8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. 9.
 
TokinPodPilot

TokinPodPilot

Well-Known Member
TokinPodPilot said:
It's pretty plainly expressed in the bill. People v. Kelly ruled limits in H&SC 11362.775 as unconstitutional since they were introduced as state legislation, which cannot be used to limit voter initiative. Part of the ruling was also the determination that only another voter initiative can limit or change existing voter initiative legislation. Prop. 19, a voter initiative, very clearly states which sections of the H&SC in which medical allowances are expressly permitted, which includes 11362.775.
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growone said:
this is excerpted from the purposes section of prop 19
i interpret this as meaning limits for medical grows are not to be affected by prop 19, i also interpret the scope of this to apply to the whole of the proposition

7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. 8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. 9.
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Interpret all you want. What it says is pretty clear.
 
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