Questions using Eco Grower Hydro

I have a couple questions:
I'm a 1st time grower, 11 days into a grow with a 13 gal Eco Grower from GH. using Flora Series simple recirc basic nutes in a 2x2.5 tent with a 400w yield lab ballast w/variable 50,75,100%, super lumens setting. exhaust fan is a VT variable speed 440 CFM on a carbon filter.

• Have had nukes running 24/7 per GH instructions. Should I continue 24/7? When should I change feeding sched.
• Lighting is a MH on 18/6. What % should I be on currently, and when should I increase intensity?
• Recirc fan running on in tent 24/7, but not blowing directly on plants, Exhaust fan runs 24/7 at low to mid level. Any advise on this would be appreciated.

Kids look pretty happy but one has starting leaning over where it enters the pot. I'm probably in over my head going hydro on first grow, but I am where I am. I would appreciate and advise or recommendations.

Pics, ...or this is all a dream, and you're still in high school, drooling on your desk.

Wow, you must have been in my class, for real. Anyway pics and the TS form info is attached. I hope it helps and thank you for your response.


What is your experience level? (first timer, novice, experienced...) first timer

What type of hydro set-up are you running? Eco Grower in a 2x2.5 gorilla tent.

Your Equipment:
A) Type and wattage of lights. (MH, HPS, CFL's, tube fluorescents, LED's) 400W MH
B) Distance from tops? 24”
C) Reflector type? (cool tube set-up, bat wing, enclosed reflector, bare bulb...) Exhaust Ducted enclosed reflector
D) What are the bulb wattages, kelvin ratings, and schedule? 400W.yield lab ballast adjustable from 50% to 100%. Current setting is 50 to 75%
E) Is there a consistent fresh air supply? Yes
F) Do you have an exhaust fan and a circulation fan? Yes
G) Size of reservoir? 13 Gal (Eco Grower)
H) What medium if applicable. Clay Pebble

Your nutrients and water:
I) If using rockwoll for clones or seedlings, did you rinse the cubes well, with properly ph'd water? PH neutral General Hydroponics Rapid Rooter Replacement Plugs
J) Source of water. (tap or filtered) What's it's ph? Tap water PH neutral
K) Specific brand and N-P-K ratio for each bottle. List dosages (quantity per gallon) and current feeding schedule. GH Flora Series QT. 2.5ml /Gal. Solution running 24/7
L) What is the ec/ppm of your unadjusted tap (or filtered) water? 80 PPM
M) What is the ec/ppm of your nutrient solution? 500 PPM
N) What is the temperature of your nutrient solution? (reservoir high and low temps) 72/67F
O) Does your ec/ppm show a rise or fall when you do your daily PPM check? Slight rise
P) Does the ph fluctuate? No
Q) Do you foliar feed? If so, with what, how often, and at what time do you
spray? (Just after lights come on, just before they go out...) not yet
R) How often do you replace reservoir water/nutes? What does it look like before changes? (clear, foamy, green, brown...) only 10 days into grow. Scheduled to change solution 12/14.

Your growroom:
S) What size of closet, room or hut? 2x2.5 feet
T) What are the temps and humidity levels while lights are on? ...With lights off? On=76 F/40%; Off 65F/50%; recently added humidifier and RH has increased by 7-8 degs
U) Have you seen signs of insects in the growroom? No
V) Are the roots long and white, or brown and slimy? Roots just reached the solution 12/11. I have not really inspected them yet.

Your strain:
W) What strain are you growing? (Indica dominate or Sativa dom?) Indica
X) From seeds or clones? Seeds
Y) Is this an autoflower strain? No

Tman20 said:

I have a couple questions:
I'm a 1st time grower, 11 days into a grow with a 13 gal Eco Grower from GH. using Flora Series simple recirc basic nutes in a 2x2.5 tent with a 400w yield lab ballast w/variable 50,75,100%, super lumens setting. exhaust fan is a VT variable speed 440 CFM on a carbon filter.

• Have had nukes running 24/7 per GH instructions. Should I continue 24/7? When should I change feeding sched.
• Lighting is a MH on 18/6. What % should I be on currently, and when should I increase intensity?
• Recirc fan running on in tent 24/7, but not blowing directly on plants, Exhaust fan runs 24/7 at low to mid level. Any advise on this would be appreciated.

Kids look pretty happy but one has starting leaning over where it enters the pot. I'm probably in over my head going hydro on first grow, but I am where I am. I would appreciate and advise or recommendations.

Click to expand...

1) What is your ppm / EC and Ph and temp of your nutes?

2) starting water ppm /ec?

Are you using those coco organic sleves? If so----I suggest not ----organics and water culture don't belong in the same sentence.

I hate rock wool ------for starting seeds you can use vermiculite filled cups that can be rinsed off the roots then moved to the eco grower. IMO, having that soggy rock wool around the plant stems and roots just invites problems.

Are the seeds feminized or regular?

Are you planning to flower in the same eco grower.

1st rule of hydro----keep your nutes cool (65-68f ideal) and well oxygenated (min 5.0 ppm).

A~~~

Answers as follows:
1) What is your ppm / EC and Ph and temp of your nutes? PPM 500 (pretty steady) PH is 5.8 (has risen from original 5.5 7 days ago. Nute temp 67-68F during dark period; 69-71F during lights on.
2) starting water ppm /ec? 70 to 100PPM
Are the seeds feminized or regular? feminized
Are you planning to flower in the same eco grower. Yes
1st rule of hydro----keep your nutes cool (65-68f ideal) and well oxygenated (min 5.0 ppm). I have two extra air stones but it sounds like I need to get the nute temp down a bit; any recommendations? I will be changing the solution tomorrow so I will target PPM at 5.0. Should I follow the HG Flora Series week two recommended PPM increase to 900-1100 PPM? Also should I be feeding 24/7 currently?

Thanks so much for your help as I feel I'm in a little over my head, but it is exciting watching the plants develop.

No, don't up nutes right now, you had answered that ppm has a slight rise, that means they probably aren't eating everything you are feeding, hence the rise as ratio is diluted. I personally would be at 300ppm tops if i was where you were. You could run a 0ppm up until now if you wanted, esp since roots havn't hit water. I only go with about 1/2 or less of the suggested feed schedule. 900-1100ppm is the highest I ever go, so def don't go that high right now. follow the feed schedule by 1/3 to 1/2 the label suggested measurements.

Got it, sounds like the recommended nutes on the GH instruction is to hot. Any advise on how long I should be running my solution over my pots. I'm running 24/7 at the moment.

11 days from seed - nutrients way too strong at 500. I recently made my plants nitrogen toxic running 1/2 strength nutrients from Blue Planet 3 weeks from clone transplant (about 700ppm on a Hanna). I'm at 500ppm now and they're bouncing back - bless. But yeah the nutrient manufacturers always seem to recommend obscene quantities of nutrients for DWC application (which needs less). I would dilute that down to half or less. You can use some of that extra nutrient solution after diluting as a foliar spray too - def speeds up veg process and you wont be wasting anything. Again, keep ppm low for that - 1/4 current strength.

Also, are all your plants leaning in, towards the middle of the Eco Grower? They don't look droppy in your pics but rather like they're leaning in. This will happen when they're reaching for the light. I recently popped a seed under a bucket in my tent and forgot about it - that sucker had 2 90* bends on it trying to escape the shadow and reach the light.

Good luck!

Thanks for the info Major. Great idea on the foliar spray; When should I start spraying the leaves? How often should I spray?
Only the one plant basically fell over, so I propped it up with the coco cap cover and it appears to be back up on its own.
My 400w MH light is at 75% & about 28 inches above the kids. Tent temp is running around 73F since I added a humidifier. Should I lower the light or increase the intensity to reduce the leaning?
I really appreciate the advise to all. I have read GEM by Ryan Riley and researched a lot, but I'm still starving for info.

Can someone tell me whether the ECO Grower from HG is a DWC or Bubbler or both, or neither?

Tman20 said:

Answers as follows:
1) What is your ppm / EC and Ph and temp of your nutes? PPM 500 (pretty steady) PH is 5.8 (has risen from original 5.5 7 days ago. Nute temp 67-68F during dark period; 69-71F during lights on.
2) starting water ppm /ec? 70 to 100PPM
Are the seeds feminized or regular? feminized
Are you planning to flower in the same eco grower. Yes
1st rule of hydro----keep your nutes cool (65-68f ideal) and well oxygenated (min 5.0 ppm). I have two extra air stones but it sounds like I need to get the nute temp down a bit; any recommendations? I will be changing the solution tomorrow so I will target PPM at 5.0. Should I follow the HG Flora Series week two recommended PPM increase to 900-1100 PPM? Also should I be feeding 24/7 currently?

Thanks so much for your help as I feel I'm in a little over my head, but it is exciting watching the plants develop.

Click to expand...

Well, if it's exciting now-----better fasten your seat belt.

500 ppm nutes--- it's always good to specify the conversion scale for you ppm meter. For 11 days your plants look happy. I'd keep running where you are ppm and ph wise, move up gradually and watch for burning on the leaf tips.

71F nute temp is not ideal but fine-----reason I say that-----I ran for several years in the mid 70s. If interested, check out the link in my sig.

70-100F starting water should be fine.

Feminized seed----got choice, what strain? Are you planning to take clones or start from seed every time?

I've run my veg lights on 24/7 and 18/6 cycles----both work. I learn more toward 18/6.

Your 400 watter is only good for about a 2' x 2' canopy. I suggest you start flowering at about 12" tall.

Any plans to switch to hps for flowering?

Going to 1100 ppm is too hot right now. My nute preference is 7/14 ml/g micro/bloom with 5ml/g cal mag (ro water) running both veg and flower.

EDIT:
Your system is a drip system----I've never run that way but I'd feed 24/7.

Check out some of the you tube videos for the eco grower

A~~~

I feed on every watering, as many as six F&D's per 24 hours. The fertilizer in the reservoir is cut to 1/6 of what is recommended per gallon of water for soil, outdoors, whatever that is in ppm. I find I can spray this solution directly on the plants without any bad effects.

I figure if the mix is to strong to spray on the plants it's too strong for the roots in a constant feed system.

Great info!
Strain is Northern Light. I would love to get into cloning, but right now I do have a bit of a space issue.
I plan to switch over to the 400w HPS bulb during flowering.
I also just installed a RO system for better quality h2o2.

Tman20 said:

Can someone tell me whether the ECO Grower from HG is a DWC or Bubbler or both, or neither?

Click to expand...

So it looks like it incorporates a couple different styles, drip feed as well as DWC. The drip feed will become redundant once the roots are submerged in the nutrient solution. I would add air stones into that reservoir. Keeping the root zone oxygenated is incredibly important and DWC

Thanks Major. I actually have an extra aerator with two stones in the rez.
So I'll just let the rez pump continue to run solution over the pots 24/7.

Tman20 said:

Thanks Major. I actually have an extra aerator with two stones in the rez.
So I'll just let the rez pump continue to run solution over the pots 24/7.

Click to expand...

You could leave the pump OFF 24/7 and you'd be fine, you don't need it since you have the bubbles. I started with a topfed dwc but trashed it because it was just another variable to deal with. I'd love to see a grow with and without it to see if it is actually is worth it.

So you don't need any solution on the roots above the solution level in the rez?

Tman20 said:

So you don't need any solution on the roots above the solution level in the rez?

Click to expand...

Nope, never. The seed itself holds enough energy to get the roots to the water and once it's in the water it gets its nutrients from the water itself(because you'll be putting the nutes in the water/res) and the bubbles from your airsones will supply the oxygen. That's all you need.

Topfed is just a way to add an extra plus to the situation in that it supplys some more oxygen from the waterfall effect and it adds a little extra from the nutes running down the roots but by the time your plant is really eating the root ball is going to be giant in the res and the amount of nutes being fed down the small amount of roots into the res is minimal compared to the huge root ball sitting in the nutrient solution below.

Thanks Anon! That makes all the sense in the world. So the medium (clay pebbles) in the pots will not even be wet at all?

The bubbles from the airstone should pop at the surface of the solution creating a micro spray that will dampen the lower pebbles and encourage initial root growth while also oxygenating the water supply. If you intend on dismissing the top drip system all together, I would add additional airstones to the reservoir and raise the level high enough to ensure that the lower clay pebbles are getting soaked after a few hours of bubbling. The top stones may appear bone dry but these little pebbles are amazing and do a great job of pulling water from their neighbors, they'll have some degree of water but they'll look pretty dry.

IIRC you mentioned having two airstones - with 6 plant sites, I'd want a stone at each site, minimum. You may need a 3rd pump depending on the strength of your current pump(s). As for the legitimacy of the top feed system, I'd say that is a debatable topic. Back in the day when bubble buckets were first becoming a thing (bubbleponics was the coined term), the general consensus was to top feed early and halt once the roots hit the water. It certainly doesn't pose any harm to top feed until the roots make contact with the solution, although some may argue slowed root growth can occur since the roots are not forced to seek out nutrients from below. Think about this: in ebb and flow systems, where one floods a tray full of pots or rockwool cubes, the size of those cubes can be as small as 4"x4"x4" and you can grow a pretty large plant from that. The roots stop growing down and instead, fill the cube entirely. We don't want that to happen in DWC. The majority of today's DWC growers just allow the roots to seek out that solution early on and they do this by how I mentioned earlier - airstones splashing and dampening the lower clay pellets.

You'll also find some people who argue that the base of the netpot should reside IN the water. For instance, a major player in top shelf RDWC hydroponics systems, Current Culture, advises users to do this. Others will say leave an inch or two of gap between the bottom of the netpot and the top of the nutrient solution. In the past, I kept space. In the past, I did not have adequate air b/c I was using Wal-Mart airpumps. Now, I have an 800gph pump for 2 plants and have plenty of bubbles and I have definitely noticed faster initial growth by submerging my netpots about an inch or so into the water.

Its all trial and error and experience goes a long way - not just experience growing in general but experience with your strain, your system, your nutrients, etc etc. All the advice in the world won't get your system dialed in perfectly b/c nobody has exactly what you have. I keep a paper journal and log every minute event or change to my water/system/etc and I'm learning every day. My biggest learn recently is that DWC is incredibly efficient in terms of nutrients so manufacturer's suggestions are completely out the window - I was at over 800ppm at this stage following their guidelines and my plants almost died of Nitrogen toxicity. I've lowered that to half and after a stunted week of growth, they are perking back up. Perhaps its just the pheno of my strain that is a bitch about Nitrogen and next go around with the next seed will be completely different. Don't get discouraged or frustrated; just grow, make mistakes, learn, and have fun.