Pros and cons of Russell's proposed bill

tet1953

Well-Known Member
In today's Press Herald.
Here is a link to the story: http://www.pressherald.com/politics/legalized-pot-a-risk-to-medical-dispensers_2013-04-29.html

Legalized pot a risk to medical dispensers

In an odd twist, pro-marijuana groups that provide the drug to patients fear for their future if a Maine bill passes.

By Michael Shepherd [email protected]
State House Bureau

AUGUSTA - Medical marijuana groups are wary of a bill that would legalize and tax marijuana in Maine.

Estimates nationwide suggest if marijuana were legal, much of the profit gained by medical retailers and black-market criminals would disappear.
That worries Glenn Peterson, the owner of Canuvo, a Biddeford medical-marijuana dispensary. He also serves as president of the Maine Association of Dispensary Operators, a trade group made up of five Maine dispensary owners.
Peterson said his group is concerned that the bill could "eliminate the medical marijuanaindustry" in Maine.
"I tend to be libertarian," he said. "On the other hand, I am quite protective of my dispensary."
Paul McCarrier, a lobbyist for Medical Marijuana Caregivers of Maine, an advocacy group for state-licensed caregivers who grow marijuana for small groups of medical patients, said his group is opposing the bill. McCarrier said it would favor dispensaries through licensing requirements, which could regulate small-time growers out of existence.
"The scope of protections for the individual to cultivate for themselves is too limited," he said.
The head of a national group that has supported the Maine bill and similar proposals nationwide says his organization has run into opposition to legalization from medical-marijuana groups in other states.
Allen St. Pierre, executive director of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, or NORML, said that "probably the most vexing thing that we're facing right now (in pushing for legalization) is not the government or law enforcement agencies," he said. "It comes from, oddly put, anti-prohibitionists versus anti-prohibitionists."
The Maine bill to legalize marijuana, sponsored by Rep. Diane Russell, D-Portland, is a sweeping measure. Chiefly, it would allow those 21 and older to possess 2½ ounces of marijuana and six plants.
It also would license cultivators, producers of products containing marijuana, retailers and laboratories, giving preference for licensing to officials at existing dispensaries.
David Boyer, Maine political director for the Marijuana Policy Project, a nationwide group backing Russell's bill, said the provision to give preference to existing dispensaries was partially due to a drafting error in the bill, and he and Russell are open to amending it. Boyer has been lobbying legislators to support the bill.
Peterson said his group is lobbying for dispensaries to be granted automatic cultivation, retail and production licenses. He said it wouldn't oppose the bill then.
McCarrier said it isn't clear whether caregivers are on the same plane as dispensaries in the bill.
Russell's bill would assess a $50-per-ounce tax on cultivators, 75 percent of which Russell has said she wants to divert to the state's General Fund. Under her plan, the rest would go toward substance abuse programs, marijuana research and implementing the act.
Only two states, Colorado and Washington, have legalized marijuana, and they did so in 2012 referendum votes. Marijuana possession is illegal under federal law, so even states with medical-marijuana programs are running afoul of that law.
In those states and others, legalization efforts ran into patches of opposition from medical-marijuana groups as well.
St. Pierre suggested that's because of economic protectionism: Simply put, when marijuana becomes legal, consumption will go up and prices will fall sharply.
McCarrier said it's not about protecting money, but protecting "the ability for caregivers to continue to operate."
Peterson said he sells marijuana for $360 per ounce; McCarrier said caregivers sell for between $175 and $250 per ounce. Street prices could be higher or lower.
A paper by a group of marijuana researchers published this month in the Oregon Law Review says the American marijuana market is a $30 billion industry annually. But modern farming techniques could supply that demand for "hundreds of millions of dollars."
So, the paper says, most of those billions could be captured by businesses or states, but "only if competitive pressure does not drive prices down."
Peterson said he has hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in his operation, and he's not sure what would happen to it under legalization.
"I have no investors. I don't take a salary," he said. "But that's what you have to do to have a program in this state."
Medical marijuana wouldn't be taxed at $50 an ounce, according to Russell's proposal, and Boyer said he doesn't want to affect the medical system "in any bad way."
Still, "it's kind of an evil trade-off," Peterson said of the tax on recreational marijuana. "You can have it legally, but it's going to cost you." Russell has said the price drop after legalization would more than make up for the tax.
On taxes, a fine line would have to be walked to turn the average consumer to the new, recreational market. If the marijuana tax is too high, people will likely seek the black market or a doctor's recommendation for patient status, say many working on tax proposals in other states.
Colorado and Washington are establishing regulations for their legal programs. They are seeking to establish a tax system that strikes those balances.
According to The New York Times, Colorado is considering excise and sales taxes of up to 30 percent combined on recreational marijuana. In Washington state, the Times said three levels of taxes will be levied on producers, processors and retailers. Consumers will pay a 44 percent effective rate.
The $50-per-ounce rate has been discussed in other places. California considered a bill that would use that rate in 2009, and lawmakers effectively killed it in 2010.
Beau Kilmer, a drug policy researcher for the RAND Corp., a nonprofit think tank, said there are a number of ways that regulators could tax marijuana, including per ounce and by the plant's chemical makeup.
However, it's too early to tell what would work best, so Kilmer suggests flexibility in the tax system.
"If large barriers are created to changing the taxes, it's going to make it a heck of a lot harder to update them based on new research," he said.
That lack of clarity makes Boyer, of the Marijuana Policy Project, wonder why some are opposing Russell's bill so soon, before a legislative committee gets to amend it.
"I'm a little disappointed that some people are jumping the gun on this bill before it's a final bill," Boyer said. "I think everyone would benefit from ending marijuana prohibition."
McCarrier said that philosophically, he could support legalization, but "the devil's in the details."
Peterson also said he could support the right plan, but "I would not want to do anything that disrupted the medical side of things. It really puts a death knell to the program."
For St. Pierre, the NORML director, the schism is particularly divisive for the overarching cause of his group for years -- totally legal marijuana.
"For me, it is a necessary but fascinating footnote in history that some of the most active opposition is oddly coming from those who are fellow travelers of the road, shall we say -- those who enjoy and use marijuana, be it for medical reasons or recreational," he said.
 

kindnug

Well-Known Member
Messing with their cash flow. Anyone with $ to make on MJ doesn't want it legal...
Sounds like he's trying to create a monopoly on MJ.
We would be a true Free Country if we didn't have people like him hindering the effort.
He needs some insight into what this country is about...FREEDOM
 

jujubee

Active Member
They don't like it because it allows anyone to grow.

Fuck the dealers and people who are worried about making money.
 

jujubee

Active Member
This is the first article I read about this issue

http://freepressonline.com/main.asp?SectionID=52&SubSectionID=78&ArticleID=25691

4/25/2013 11:19:00 AM
Legalization Bill Divides Maine's Pot Community
by Andy O’Brien
It's been over 40 years since President Nixon declared the War on Drugs, and now cracks are forming in public support for the policy.

Back in November, Washington and Colorado became the first states to effectively decriminalize the use and sale of marijuana.

A recent Pew Research Center poll found that a majority of Americans favor marijuana legalization for the first time since polling on the issue began in the 1960s.

Predictably, politicans of both political parties have begun "evolving" on the issue. Maine's 1st District Democratic Congresswoman Chellie Pingree is currently one of 15 members of Congress who has signed onto H.R. 499, the "Ending Federal Marijuana Prohibition Act of 2013." Republican Rep. Dana Rohrabacher of California has submitted H.R. 1253, the "Respect State Marijuana Laws Act," which would end federal enforcement of marijuana laws in states that have already legalized it for sale and consumption. Back in December President Obama famously said that he has "bigger fish to fry" than cracking down on legalization states.

Currently Maine is one of 18 states that allows marijuana to be recommended and used for medicinal purposes, but new proposals are currently in the pipeline to allow it for recreational use. In Portland, signature gathererers are trying to get question on the November ballot to legalize the herb within the city limits. Meanwhile, Rep. Diane Russell (D-Portland) has submitted LD 1229, a bipartisan-sponsored bill to set up a comprehensive regulatory structure for the sale and taxation of recreational marijuana in Maine. If passed, the measure would be sent out for voter approval.

"As a fiscal conservative, I see great potential for economic growth in removing the prohibition," the bill's lead co-sponsor Rep. Aaron Libby (R-Waterboro) said in a February press conference. "It will also produce huge amounts of savings in enforcement. It'll be a boost for agriculture. I believe that ending marijuana prohibition is a true part of limited government."

A 2010 study by the libertarian Cato Institute estimated that Maine could generate $12.2 million in annual tax revenue and save an additional $14.3 million in enforcement costs if it legalized and taxed marijuana.

However, Russell's bill has split Maine's marijuana activist community, and for longtime pot advocate Harry Brown of Starks, the devil is in the details.

"The big problem with LD 1229 . . . is that it is set up to benefit out-of-state corporate interests and leaves Mainers trimming cannabis for minimum wage," Brown recently wrote in a widely circulated email.

In the aftermath of Maine's 2009 medical marijuana law, patients and medical marijuana growers - called caregivers - lobbied for more relaxed laws for small marijuana farmers and patients. Grassroots organizations like the Medical Marijuana Caregivers of Maine (MMCM) support a more decentralized approach to the supply and distribution of medical marijuana, rather than the more centralized business structure of the dispensary system.

"Business is driving the change"

Meanwhile, with the drug cartels on the verge of being forced to give up a multimillion-dollar black market industry, Wall Street is watching closely. A March cover story from Fortune Magazine titled Marijuana Inc. - Meet the Entrepreneurs and Investors Firing Up a New Industry gave an inside look at a meeting between investors and cannabis start-ups that was facilitated by the marijuana investor network Arcview Group.

"Business is driving the change," Troy Dayton of the Arcview Group said in the article. "Business is the most powerful platform for political change that's ever existed. When there is money for government, money for investors, money for entrepreneurs, and benefits to communities, that's a powerful incentive for change."

Back in Maine, that trend has led to fear that LD 1229, which has been co-written by the national Marijuana Policy Project, is a Trojan Horse for big moneyed interests that will trample the little guy.

"They are lining up to wine and dine our representatives, getting to know who's who on the regulatory agencies and making business plans," Brown concluded.

That is a charge that Rep. Russell vigorously denies.

"This debate shouldn't be about who gets the money," said Russell. "This debate should be about who's going to have the freedom to do what they choose to do responsibly in their own home. This should be about making sure that we have revenue to fund our schools and our law enforcement and that those officers are spending their time on actual crimes that harm our communities."

LD 1229 - The Details

LD 1229 aims to remove all criminal penalties from selling and using marijuana. It also removes the civil violation for those possessing up to 2.5 ounces of pot. Under the proposal, retailers would be able to apply for a limited number of marijuana licenses.

LD 1229 would allow roughly half as many licenses in the state as there are liquor licenses, and the program would be overseen by the Bureau of Alcohol Beverages and Lottery Operations (BABLO).

It would also license cultivators and producers of marijuana products. Licensing fees would not exceed $5,000. Sales of the herb would be subject to a 5-percent sales tax plus a $50-an-ounce excise tax. Russell says the measure will generate about $13 million in revenue for the state.

LD 1229 would also give non-profit medical marijuana dispensaries preference if they choose to become for-profit. Russell says the reason for that provision is because dispensaries are subject to a more rigorous state registration process than caregivers, who are not subject to the same strict standards.

But Russell argues that her bill would be friendly to small-scale local marijuana businesses because it explicitly gives preference to any applicant with at least one year of previous experience cultivating marijuana or in operating another business in the state.

LD 1229 would also give preference to new competing applicants over establishments already holding a license.

As the bill is written, it would also allow people over 21 to grow a maximum of six marijuana plants, including seedlings, which concerns MMCM spokesman Paul McCarrier. McCarrier says his members worry that since most gardeners sow more than six seeds when growing any other plant, many pot growers would end up breaking the law. Russell says she intends to amend the provision to allow six flowering plants and more seedlings, but McCarrier is skeptical that the Criminal Justice Committee will support the idea.

"From my discussions with members on the committee, they do not want to allow people to self-grow," said McCarrier. "They want it to be like the state liquor contract, where someone has to give tens of millions of dollars up front to have the exclusive right to distribute legal cannabis in the state."

As a liquor control state, Maine requires all hard liquor to be first sold to the state, then priced and warehoused by a private contractor, which is currently Maine Beverage.

Russell serves on the Veterans and Legal Affairs Committee, which oversees the negotiation of the state's lucrative liquor contract, and says she would not support a similar model for pot.

McCarrier also calls the proposed $50 excise tax "obscenely high" and says it will lead consumers to purchase off the black market, leading law enforcement to bust them for tax evasion and unlicensed trafficking.

Russell disagrees and says the drop in prices following legalization will make up for the tax.

A widely cited 2006 study published by the Bulletin of Cannabis Reform estimated that the cost to produce an ounce of marijuana is about $100 under prohibition. According to PriceofWeed.com, the average price of an ounce of pot in Maine is currently about $343 an ounce for high quality and $229 for low quality.

A November 2012 article in American Interest, a nonpartisan public policy magazine, hypothesized that legalization could reduce the cost of marijuana production to just 62 cents an ounce if it was allowed to grow as any other plant. By that estimate, costs would be driven more by government regulation than by actual cost of production.

Legalization debate a distraction from expanding medical marijuana treatment

For the Medical Marijuana Caregivers of Maine (MMCM), the legalization debate has become a distraction from their goals of expanding the number of conditions medical marijuana can be treatment for.

Under separate proposed legislation, qualified patients could legally buy medicinal marijuana from a neighborhood farmer or dispensary to treat a range of loosely defined conditions, such as anxiety and depression.

McCarrier says the MMCM group also intends to start their own legalization citizen initiative process, which he says would be carefully vetted and written by a wide stakeholder group. He says the Marijuana Policy Project may not have the best interests of locals in mind.

Supporters of the bill counter that the language of LD 1229 is not written in stone, and members of the public are welcome to provide amendment suggestions at next Friday's public hearing.

"I think it's jumping the gun to take a position on this bill before it even gets to the committee for a public hearing. Lots of times the bills get amended," said Marijuana Policy Project spokesman David Boyer, adding, "Maybe we should be questioning why it's a bad thing for business to come to Maine."

Some supporters of LD 1229 have accused MMCM of simply trying to protect their market share in opposing the proposal, a charge that the group denies.

"Anyone who isn't a drug felon can apply to become a caregiver and you can find someone to grow for," said McCarrier. "It's not limited licensing like in Rep. Russell's bill. They're trying to paint it like we're the greedy caregivers, but if you look at most caregivers, they're generally just getting by."

Vote on legalization seems inevitable

Whether the bill passes or not, supporters say it's likely there will be a citizen initiative to put legalization on the ballot some time in the future.

As the country's long-standing prohibition on marijuana faces a perfect storm of changing cultural attitudes, revenue-starved government budgets and big-money campaigns financed by well-heeled business interests, the wind appears to be at the backs of those in the legalization movement.

The Legislature's Criminal Justice and Public Safety Committee will take up LD 1229 on Friday, May 3.
 

Maine Brookies

Active Member
"McCarrier also calls the proposed $50 excise tax "obscenely high" and says it will lead consumers to purchase off the black market..."

Bullshit on any number of levels. The tax is hefty but not excessive. The tax gives caregivers a $50/ounce advantage in pricing, since the tax does not apply to medical sales. And, as someone who spent a long time working the black market, no dealer in his right mind will be sure to sell all of his cannabis long before the law changes, so there will not be an effective black market to buy from. I mean, i'd like to buy untaxed black market Scotch - anyone know where i can get some?
 

GandalfdaGreen

Well-Known Member
How far are we from this?


  • As the bill is written, it would also allow people over 21 to grow a maximum of six marijuana plants, including seedlings, which concerns MMCM spokesman Paul McCarrier. McCarrier says his members worry that since most gardeners sow more than six seeds when growing any other plant, many pot growers would end up breaking the law. Russell says she intends to amend the provision to allow six flowering plants and more seedlings, but McCarrier is skeptical that the Criminal Justice Committee will support the idea.




 

jujubee

Active Member
That would be nice.

I don't think the government will go for less than a 25% excise tax. At that point, $50 per oz may be better.
 

tet1953

Well-Known Member
I considered starting a new thread for this, but it's about this really.

This is a short dispatch in today's Press Herald. While some LEO are enlightened about cannabis, ignorance abounds.

Four sheriffs taking stand against pot legalization
Four Maine sheriffs are joining community health care providers to stand against marijuana legalization efforts.
Kennebec County Sheriff Randall Liberty, president of the Maine Sheriffs Association, said Tuesday that legalizing marijuana would damage communities.
Sagadahoc County Sheriff Joel Merry said marijuana use has negative effects on a developing brain.
Oxford County Sheriff Wayne Gallant and Lincoln County Sheriff Todd Brackett joined them.
The sheriffs said marijuana is a drug that leads to abuse of other substances. Liberty says many inmates who come into his jail on drug charges got their start with marijuana.
Bruce Campbell, program director at Wellspring Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services in Bangor, said marijuana use costs Maine almost $1.3 billion annually for health care, social services, criminal justice and loss of productivity.
 

NoSwagBag

Well-Known Member
I considered starting a new thread for this, but it's about this really.

This is a short dispatch in today's Press Herald. While some LEO are enlightened about cannabis, ignorance abounds.

Four sheriffs taking stand against pot legalization
Four Maine sheriffs are joining community health care providers to stand against marijuana legalization efforts.
Kennebec County Sheriff Randall Liberty, president of the Maine Sheriffs Association, said Tuesday that legalizing marijuana would damage communities.
Sagadahoc County Sheriff Joel Merry said marijuana use has negative effects on a developing brain.
Oxford County Sheriff Wayne Gallant and Lincoln County Sheriff Todd Brackett joined them.
The sheriffs said marijuana is a drug that leads to abuse of other substances. Liberty says many inmates who come into his jail on drug charges got their start with marijuana.
Bruce Campbell, program director at Wellspring Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services in Bangor, said marijuana use costs Maine almost $1.3 billion annually for health care, social services, criminal justice and loss of productivity.
Being from Lincoln County I can tell you this area has a much bigger problem with opiate dependency Perhaps Mr bracket should worry about that first
 

Maine Brookies

Active Member
Four Maine sheriffs are joining community health care providers to stand against marijuana legalization efforts.
I'm shocked - SHOCKED! - that people whose budgets depend on anti-drug money would oppose legalization of cannabis. I wish reporters would return to the good old days when they used their critical thinking skills and asked tough questions (like "How much money do you stand to lose if we legalize?") instead of simply acting as stenographers and telling us what the speaker says....
 

Countyboy88

Member
Im sorry, but, ive never been to a dispensary, and i have no desire to go really. Im all set on weed wal mart. I understand that running one is a career and a huge investment, it must be scary to have your business threatened. but, id really like to see this thing turn more towards small business than dispensaries. Mom and pop pot cafes, caregivers, and stuff like that. This guy is crying wolf saying he doesnt take a salary, and then saying hes got hundreds of thousands in his business....hes probably doing fine. Im not sure weather or not this model they are looking at will help facilitate small biz, or just accomodate the big business. I honestly think, with the right model, we could help close the gap between rich and poor a bit. talk about a business with low startup cost and high return...And lets be honest, if it becomes recreationally legal, is there going to be much of a med community left for dispensaries? I guess getting a cert is cheaper than paying the taxes all year. Another thing to think about is this: alot of users do not have any knowledge or interest in growing at all, they are happy to just pay a reasonable price for a good product from someone who knows what they are doing. They dont want to set aside a room of their house, stink up the neighborhood, run up their power bill, and wait months to harvest. Those of us who do it have a love for it as a hobby that most people dont care for/understand. I think we may be overestimating how much production would increase with legalization. The market may not flood as much as we anticipate. People who are already doing it would ramp up and maybe do new things like extracts. but im really not so sure that many more people would start growing on a considerable scale. They seem to be acting like once its legalized, there will be all this nug and nobody to smoke it. Sorry if im rambling, or being offensive, or foolish. Haha. But yeah, lots to think about here.
 

tet1953

Well-Known Member
I have my doubts that Russell's bill will pass. It has come a lot further than ever before though. If they do make it legal, we'll have WA and CO to look toward for how things will go, even though they are both a little different. Feds haven't decided what they are going to do yet.
 
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