Problem, 10 plants, 1k, not sure?

Hi all,

Well I've done the majority of my research here for my first grow and would like to thank all that contribute!

I started with 8 hybrids (white widow, and pure power plant) and 1 indica (blue hash) and they've done extremely well but I'm noticing what looks like heat stress maybe...

They are 80 days from seed and have been flowering for 28 days now.

Now for their environment:
homemade 3' x 4' area covered with panda film,
fox forest ocean farms soil,
3 gallon grow bags,
1k hps light at about 24 inches from canopy,
co2-1500ppm,
plenty of ventilation,
the canopy level temp is a constant 75f,
humidity is constant 45-50%,
im using nearly all of advanced nutrients 'boosters' along with their 3 part nutrient base, and for watering I am alternating between plain water, and nuted water (~1000ppm @6.3 ph)

I don't see how I could have heat stress with the canopy temps so low but maybe its just too much light for that small of an area... 150000 lumens / 12 sq ft = 12500 lumens per sq ft.

All help is much appreciated!

it dont look like heat stress to me !! are you stayin at a constant 6.3 Ph!?? you'll want to let it fluc. a bit so the plants can get the nutes they need!! looks like nute lock and/or deficiency to me....IMO

UNICRONLIVES said:

it dont look like heat stress to me !! are you stayin at a constant 6.3 Ph!?? you'll want to let it fluc. a bit so the plants can get the nutes they need!! looks like nute lock and/or deficiency to me....IMO

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thanks alot for the fast response, do you have any idea what deficiencies they have?

does anyone else have any ideas on how to fix my ladies?

after a little more research and talkin with some buddies does anyone think it mat be Mg? it is a little over 4 weeks into flowering... either way imma add a light dose of calmag and i'll post my results in a few days, maybe it will help others in the future

Well despite the overwhelming number of responses...lol, I added some cal-mag and raised my ph to 6.5 so hopefully it is a magnesium deficiency, but nonetheless I could still use some experts opinions, so I added some better pictures that show the problem areas a little better.

Again all help is appreciated, if you have any idea what is wrong, please help! thanks everyone

its ALWAYS mag if its a micronute issue x D

can u take a pic of your root bags?

It looks like they might be getting discolored from the intense light(mild bleaching). I used to get that when I was running alot of light(in the 10,000 LSF range, measured with a light meter), but still think alot of it had to do with nutes. I did back the lights off a little, but also increased the nutes(especially nitrogen) at the same time, so it's hard to say for sure which was the most help. As long as you don't suspect nutelock, I'd say to back the light off a couple inches and give them a dose or two of veg fert. Then for the last 2 weeks or so, bring the light back down and hammer the hell out of them. It'll bleach the leaves, but it'll also help those buds fill out nicely.

thanks guys, my light is about 16-18 inches from the canopy currently but originally i thought it was light bleaching combined with heat stress so i moved the light up to about 30 inches from the canopy for 5-7 days but they continued looking worse so thats why i dropped it back down, and last watering (yesterday) i added about 5ml of calmag per gallon and added some of my 3 part (grow-micro-bloom) advanced nutrients at a 1-1-1 ratio, i got my mix up to ~700ppm. i would imagine thats still a light feeding but it was supposed to be straight water according to my water-nute-water-nute regime, they dont look any worse today which is good but of course its too early to tell...

again thanks for the insight! i got my fingers crossed

allovher said:

its ALWAYS mag if its a micronute issue x D

can u take a pic of your root bags?

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i definitely can if its needed, but im curious why a pic of my root bag would help identify my problem?

ok its been 3 days since ive added a light dose of cal-mag and theyre still lookin a little rough but maybe it hasn't been long enough yet since it is soil, but if anyone thinks they can diagnose this problem it would make me feel a lot better. thanks guys and imma keep my fingers crossed

Sure looks like a phosphorus deficiency to me. Scroll down and check out the pic.... http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=11688

are there no experts out there that know whats wrong? on a different board i've had a number of people say they think its nute burn... im kinda back to square one when i read its heat stress/light bleaching/deficient/over fertilized....thats all the diagnoses i've received so far on 3 different boards. if im not providing enough info i'm willing to answer any questions as everything goin on in there is monitored but im new to growing so iono how to handle any problems yet. oh well enough rambling im just worried my investment is not gonna pay off enough. thanks for the help guys

What's the matter, you don't believe me? They're likely suffering from a 'PH drop' which is common in mid to late bloom, and can cause nute lock, which would explain your problem. It looks like P was the first to go deficient, with the other following thereafter, and are starting to show. It's time to flush, if it were me in that situation, followed by a dose of fert.

jawbrodt said:

What's the matter, you don't believe me?

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Thats not the case lol I've just heard a lot of advice, and yours sounds like the most accurate so far.

hmm, is there anyway I can test my input ph and my runoff ph to see if there is a ph drop problem? I've been watering with 6.3 ph and the runoff has consistently measured 6.4-6.5, but last watering my input ppm was like 700 and the runoff ranged from 1100-1700+ (different trays) thats what made me think nute burn originally, which i guess regardless a flushing should help but if it was just a nute deficiency it could save me a lot of water 90 gallons for 10-3 gallon pots...

although flushing sounds a quick fix, it would be a ton of work since my plants cant really be moved (trellis netting) and it would take such a long time for 90 gallons to run through my pots let alone how much ph down would have to be used to get my tap water's ph of 8-9 down to at least 7, and i don't have anything to hold 90 gallons of water, so is there any other way I could maybe leach the soil by only giving them water for the next few waterings and then add back basic nutes? sorry if thats a dumb question i would just like to avoid flushing unless its absolutely necessary.

thanks for your help jawbrodt +rep

Just flush and take the safe way. Better to be safe than sorry.

JonnyCloss said:

Just flush and take the safe way. Better to be safe than sorry.

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whew 90 gallons is a huge job, i'd have to drain trays i have em in with my shopvac and it only holds 2 gallons at a time so id have to empty it 45 times, i really hope leaching would help wouldnt my input ph and runoff ph indicate im not having nute lock? and maybe that could indicate a different diagnosis? im hope a flush isnt my only option

Hmmm.....yeah, that sounds like it would be a pain in the ass.lol Maybe this will help.....When you flush, you don't have to use 3X the pot volume. That's just a guideline so that noobs don't mess up.lol If you want to save half the work, flush with about 1 1/2 times the pot volume, and then check the runoff with your PPM meter. You will find that after 2-3 gallons of runoff, the PPM will be down really low, less than 200, which is plenty good enough. When I flush, I shoot for less than 150 PPM, after subtracting the 40 PPM of the water I am pouring in. So, if you just monitor the runoff, it will let you know when you are done flushing, and can save you alot of work.

That still might be a pain, but if you do like 2-3 a day, it shouldn't be too bad.

I Also am using Advanced Nutes Bloom After contacting Advanced Nutes Tech line and they recomend only nuting once a week ( I will post the personalized feed schedule they recomended based on strain) So if you are giving nutes - water - nutes then it might be nute burn.

Fox Farms Ocean Forrest 10 % perilite added
1000w Super Horti
Co2 800 ppm

-----------AN Tailored nute schedule
Per 3 gal batches
Week 1 - PPM - 800 - PH 6.6 - Run off 830 ppm
--- Sensi a+b - 27.21ml
--- Bud Blood - .8 tsp
--- Rhino Skin - 22.68 ml
--- BUd Candy - 22.68
--- Bud Swell - 30ml (this is a NON AN product)

I am to stoned to complete this right now, I just gave them there first full dose of nutes and they have been in 12's 1 day.

hmm iono though because shouldnt nute burn be worse away from the light because the areas that are further away from the light are the same strains and theyre receiving the same dose so why is the bad spots directly under the light? im thinkin a deficiency or lockout or even light stress but my light should be plenty high at 20 inches and heat stress should be obsolete since my canopy temps are 80...but maybe im wrong, canopy temps are measured along the edge so maybe its too hot directly below the light, but ive done the hand test and i could hold my hand there infinitely and feel no discomfort...so shouldnt be that i guess, im thinkin it could be a def or lockout because the problem plants are the ones directly below the light and they are the ones absorbing the most nutes and so maybe thats why its showing the worst there...but iono how i could have lockout since my input ph is ~6.3 and runoff is ~6.5....but maybe lockout is caused by excessive salts that have built up... i feel lost and really wish i could get this dialed in but according to the three forums that ive asked for help on, i have heat stress/light stress, nute burn, lockout, phosphorus def, Mg def, so who knows...lol

for the sake of massive buds are there more than 2 expert growers out there that can agree on my problem/s?

Maybe this will help, I hope

How long has this problem been going on? ~10 days
What STRAIN are you growing? white widow/pure power plant/blue hash
What was the establishing technique? (seed or clone?) seed
What is the age of your plants? 85 days
How long have they been in the soil mixture they are in now? 65 days
How Tall are the plants? ~4 feet
What PHASE (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? flowering
What Technique are you using? (SOG, SCROG etc) SOG
What size pots are you using? (Include how many subjects to pot) 3 gallon pots, 1 plant per pot
What substrate/medium are you using? What brand of soil mixture are you using?(percentage of perlite, vermiculite...etc?) fox forest ocean farms 4 parts, to 1 part perlite
What Nutrient's are you using? advanced nutrients 3 part + their ferts
How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? my input is less than 1000ppm *Knowing the brand is very helpful*
How often are you feeding? once every 7-10 days
If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients? 1st week of flowering
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect) i mix all my ferts and then add the grow micro bloom at 1-1-1 until ppm is ~1000
What is the TDS/EC/PPM of your nutrients used? ~1000
What is the pH of the "RUN-OFF"? 6.4-6.5
What method of pH test was administered? Using Strips? pH pen? ph pen
How often are you watering? 4-5 days
When was your last feeding and how often are you feeding? 3 days ago feeding every other watering
What size bulb are you using? 1000w hps
What is the distance to the canopy? 18-20 inches
What is your RH Factor? (Relative Humidity) 40-50%
What is the canopy temperature? 80
What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include fluctuation range) 80/70
What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) closed environment but a large box fan is constantly blowing across the canopy
Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and not running ? again closed env so its kept at temps by AC
Is the fan blowing directly at plants? oscillating under the canopy and box fan directly over the canopy sorta angled towards the light
Is the grow substrate constantly wet or moist? moist and i let the pot get light before next watering
Is your water HARD or SOFT? pretty soft ~60-70 ppm
What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? tap bubbled for at least 24 hrs
Are you using water from a water softener? nope
Has plant been recently pruned, cloned or pinched? nope
Have any pest chemicals been used? If so what and when? nope
Are plant's infected with pest's? nope

that should do it, hopefully the above questions help out.