Ph Shift - Acid/Alkali vs Alkalinity

Yup! They look great!
Nice job and your doing it the right way = figuring it out yourself (sometimes that's the only way as nothing seems to work like instructions say to!)

Personally, I never liked rockwool for rooting.....very easy to damp off and pH is a nightmare (you found out)......
When I ran Rockwool, I started clones and seeds (prepopped) in "Root Riot" cubes and then transplanted those to my "conditioned" full size cubes, once roots first started to show. (Your right too, that the cubes took time to settle in as far as pH stability when they first started. I feel that once your microbes inhabit the cubes the stability of the pH really developed.)

The RW cubes were conditioned in 5.5 pH water for 24 hrs and the RRiots were gently inserted into the holes.
I would then run those until roots first showed and place them on conditioned RW slabs......From there it was just grow them out.

I used to use 3x3 RW cubes to start my DWC plants too.....I felt I got a more stable starting platform for the clay pebbles in the net pots and less plant "movement" when moving them or lifting net pots for whatever....Same thing for my 3 gallon Ebb & Flow runs!
I just had better success with survival rates with the RW then simply putting the RRiot cube directly in the net pots with the Cpebbles...

I like RW and have an old 2x2x7 metal framed Ebb system I build years ago....Tank, tray, pump(s) and a 400w ballast with a small cool hood. I am going to be getting that out and putting it in my new personal "place" to again play with it and do some testing of the newer "separate" nutrient (organic) brands out there and do some NPK ratio testing just for the fun of it!

But the line where you said - "I always seem to have over under water issues and hard to get totally right till a larger volume of roots grow."

THAT is exactly the case! I would suggest you find a nice Myco's mix (wet or dry) add it to your watering and you should find that even before those roots come into play,,,,,,the pH swings will drop to levels where you'll be much happier! They will not go away but, they will not be swinging 2.0 points in a day!

Just to say,,,,,,I always found HESI nutrients to be superior in my hydro runs.....Damn cleanest stuff I ever ran! I've tried LOTS of hydro nutrients too.....Other good ones were...

The Flora Nova line from GH.....DIRTY! but good!
Canna, what can you say, it's Canna! Damned costly though.

There is so much you can do with hydro along the lines of mix and match.....there just never seemed to be enough time in life too try it all! Here in my area, wants and requirements changed fast and as the trendy folks wanted ORGANIC.....I simply went back to it for ease of doing and increased counter sales......Besides,,,,my wife loves to build the soil. Something about getting close to nature...Hell, I like doing it too...

Any way, try the Myco's thing.....Nice to actually talk with someone! Wish there was still +rep sometimes!
Keep in touch - click on my avatar and click "start a conversation".....Easy way to chat with out beating up a thread with off topic banter...LOL

Grow on!

Doc

My plants are close and im making a few adjustments i hope might get me somewhere but my concern is the res they will one day go in. Ive read up on an ph perfect ferts and in ro water they should keep buffered to 5.8. Take one buffer out of the water and put another in, that way your waters not drifting up but always drifting to 5.8. Possibly im sold on ph perfect ferts but id need an ro machine to run them as advised.

I dont need to ph my vitalink plant start as at half strength and over its always 5.8 so very convinient. I think buffers have their place in hydro res's which should be a consideration for ph.

I know people dont like the science part but AN and others seem to be using it for fert design. I do believe daily res checks can be eliminated for weekly ones in larger res's with top up tanks, read a lot of threads peeps killing it that way.

AN, personally I don't like them for their marketing practice's and the BS they spout.....But hey, They do work, just to expensive!

The Hesi line is pH neutral......

You have to remember that nutrients are more "available" for uptake by the plant at differing pH values. Some lower, some higher,,,so by natures intent (and effectiveness) when you water soil the pH swings one way and as the soil dries it swings back...
The effective safe range of pH in hydro is 5.5 to 6.2......I would adjust to around 5.7 and let it rise to 6.1+ before readjusting back with that pH vs. effective uptake thing in mind.....I found it to work well and I felt the plants acted more "stable" in the long run...

No matter what you do, you will have to adjust and I would really like to SEE a hydro grow only have to adjust pH weekly.....sounds like someones blowing wind up some ass.....

Doc

Ar this point id like to return to the exact points that make a res shift enough that you think it needs daily attention.

Ive made a very real point about res size and heres where we can break it down into some solid maths which pro hydro growers make valuable calculations from, Lucas included-

* If i take two res tanks, 1 at 10litres and one at 100litres and in each tank place ten identical plants.

* In 24hours time each plant consumes 500ml
So 10plants x 500ml = 5litres.

* We now assume each tank has lost 5litres thus the10litre tank now holds 5litres and the 100litre tank now holds 95litres.

* As a percentage the 10litre tank has lost 50% of its water but the 100litre tank has lost merely 5% of its water or still contains 95% its original volume.

Now explain why i would bother checking water levels on the 100litre tank daily? Even in a week it would still hold 65litres.

Now the same basic maths applies to nutrient levels i.e. the bigger the res the less percentage volume used daily by each plant (even though it still eats onsumes the same daily amount).

The bigger the res the less these factors can affect ph shift, especially if you keep temps stable. I rdally thought this was the point about hydro over soil "More Control", i dont see why i would seek to tie myself to my grow room daily.

I read Lucas formulas for res top up tanks where a tank tops up your res thus when your tank hits low levels it reatorea ferts and water to good npk levels again so obviously some hydro growers are certainly avoiding weeky res changes let alone daily checks.

You cant argue the maths, if ph shifts with large res's id say thats alkalinity and ro machine will eliminate that. If you can give comprehensive reasons above amd beyond the obvious id be willing to consider the science of it but im not seeing any other variables?

Dr. Who said:

Ah, yes. A complete computer controlled system......I did not mention that as no hobby grower would spend that kind of money to do "walk away" growing on an grow room scale.
They have them and unless your growing in a warehouse sized grow op, that feeds a major outlet.....The price of a system like that is WAY beyond any single growers wallet ability.

Click to expand...

Hi Doc bro
I only read the first page to a certain point because to much shitthrowing here for my taste.

Just want to throw in that there is a solution that is ok with a growers wallet. Especially if he runs 500l res.
You know this guys with fishtanks right? They know lots about water mate and they have dealt with ph forever and came up with solutions.
for a res like the OP is running it would be 5-700$ i guess.
its a co2 regulation system. It monitors and regulates ph constantly to the point you like it. It uses co2 infusion into the water.
I only remember one brand " dennerle co2 controller"
seems to be exactly what the OP is looking for bro.

Peace

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