Organics ARE chemicals

cannatricks

cannatricks

Well-Known Member
I really have no desire to get into it on an internet forum, but I haven't eaten acid in years and years, and probably wouldn't again. You really need to get over the banter, I stated my position, so did you. Let's not revert into small children calling each other names.... leave the thread for those that wish to discuss it. If you really would like to talk about this in a serious discussion you can PM me anytime you would like.

Cheers.
 
billy4479

billy4479

Moderator
Heisenberg said:
I started this thread a year ago and perhaps in that time I have learned to state my point in a less inflammatory and less ambiguous manner.

The organic label (not method, not choice of nutes) in the context of marketing reflects an ideology more often than it reflects science; science being evidence based knowledge. Those who imply to patients that synthetically grown bud is more harmful to consume than organically grown bud are not appealing to the preservation of our world, not appealing to a more harmonious and less dangerous grow method; they are appealing to the immediate concern for personal health, of which I feel there are none unique to synthetics. If someone were to show evidence, as opposed to speculation, that there are immediate health concerns specific to synthetics, id have to reconsider my statement.
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well if there is one problem with synthetics its EDTA it might not hert you but that guy futher down the river from you that gets your hydro wast water might be getting this ...copy and pasted from wikipidia EDTA is in such widespread use that it has emerged as a persistent organic pollutant.[22] It degrades to ethylenediaminetriacetic acid, which then cyclizes to the diketopiperizide, a cumulative, persistent, organic environmental pollutant. An alternative chelating agent with fewer environmental pollution implications is EDDS.
EDTA exhibits low acute toxicity with LD[SIZE=-1]50[/SIZE] (rat) of 2.0 – 2.2 g/kg.[4] It has been found to be both cytotoxic and weakly genotoxic in laboratory animals. Oral exposures have been noted to cause reproductive and developmental effects.[9] The same study by Lanigan[9] also found that both dermal exposure to EDTA in most cosmetic formulations and inhalation exposure to EDTA in aerosolized cosmetic formulations would produce exposure levels below those seen to be toxic in oral dosing studies....end qoute ..

if you do your home work on it youll find that it wont hert your plants or make them unsafe to smoke but it is a problem none the less ...
 
I

Illumination

New Member
cannatricks said:
I really have no desire to get into it on an internet forum, but I haven't eaten acid in years and years, and probably wouldn't again. You really need to get over the banter, I stated my position, so did you. Let's not revert into small children calling each other names.... leave the thread for those that wish to discuss it. If you really would like to talk about this in a serious discussion you can PM me anytime you would like.

Cheers.
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And to you as well

One lovE

Namaste' :peace:
 
I

Illumination

New Member
Joedank said:
a N recptor gets N from N nothing else chem or otherwise. But bennies don't lie urea nitro
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sorry but that is highly inaccurate... actually urea in controlled amounts feeds the herd...the bennies FEED upon the urea which turns it into the form that the plant can uses... if it killed the bennies that convert it it would never be available to the the plant...so would be entirely ineffective as a source of N when quite the opposite is true...ime it greens better than nitrate N... now urea in too high of a concentration can burn and or damage fine root hairs this is true but you will witness "nute" or more accurately salinity burn if such is the case...this is why I use it as a supplement to nitrate N to feed the bennies and get that strong green without the chance of burn

Namaste':peace:
 
I

Illumination

New Member
billy4479 said:
well if there is one problem with synthetics its EDTA it might not hert you but that guy futher down the river from you that gets your hydro wast water might be getting this ...copy and pasted from wikipidia EDTA is in such widespread use that it has emerged as a persistent organic pollutant.[22] It degrades to ethylenediaminetriacetic acid, which then cyclizes to the diketopiperizide, a cumulative, persistent, organic environmental pollutant. An alternative chelating agent with fewer environmental pollution implications is EDDS.
EDTA exhibits low acute toxicity with LD[SIZE=-1]50[/SIZE] (rat) of 2.0 – 2.2 g/kg.[4] It has been found to be both cytotoxic and weakly genotoxic in laboratory animals. Oral exposures have been noted to cause reproductive and developmental effects.[9] The same study by Lanigan[9] also found that both dermal exposure to EDTA in most cosmetic formulations and inhalation exposure to EDTA in aerosolized cosmetic formulations would produce exposure levels below those seen to be toxic in oral dosing studies....end qoute ..

if you do your home work on it youll find that it wont hert your plants or make them unsafe to smoke but it is a problem none the less ...
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I do not do hydro.....whatever man...horrible chems that you eat everyday...do your thing and worry about the chelate precips while I get high and watch the coming Apocolypse...IT DOESN"T MATTER ANYMORE...GAME OVER.... capeesh?? laters
 
Joedank

Joedank

Well-Known Member
Yes urea N namely me pissing in my Rez will feed bennies but a tsp per gallon of 30-0-0 will wipe you out any burning from over salting is major destruction for microherd... I think ...
I don't really know all I do know is salt is salt weather from my chicken poop or your urea
From a cool garden article ; (I will post link if anyone cares)
4. Many animal manures have urine mixed in it. All raw bird manure is always premixed with urine and manure. Urine contains mostly urea in it. Urea is one of the oldest, safest, and free sources of nitrogen known to man. Urea breaks down fast in the soil, the compost pile, or in a compost tea brew. Human urea alone, has a NPK ratio near 45-0-0.

Vegetarian animals like cows or horses, produce poop that is more easily digestable by aerobic microbes than say carnivorous animals like chicken or pig manure. Chicken manure is a great manure, but it is more stinky, more alkaline, and has far more available ammonium nitrogen in it, than say cow or horse manure. Some composting experts are successfully composting human manure under controlled conditions.
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I would agree that many industries have jumped on the Organic band wagon. These days, I simply look at things as natural or unnatural. Soil with compost and EWC is natural. Pouring a bottle of anything else isn't natural and is simply paying tribute to some corporation.
 
Carl Spackler

Carl Spackler

Well-Known Member
I've been preaching this particular sermon for years and it mostly falls on deaf ears. The thing is, there is little that is "natural" about any of our grows. The environment, lighting, ferts. you name it. To be truly natural, one would simply stick a seed in the soil, give it a shot of water and leave it alone. I would wager that no one in this forum would risk their baby to nature's whims.
 
Corbat420

Corbat420

Well-Known Member
heres one for all you simple people out there to usless to pick up a dictionary.

Organic (or-Gan-ik)
1. Any substance which is derived from Living Matter
2. of, or relating to, any compound containing a carbon Molecule (other than simple bianary compounds, and salts.)

See what "Other Thans" SALTS. Hydroponic fertalizers are derived from salts, such as ammonium chloride, calcium chloride, Iron EDTA, and MANY other chemicals that if you were to drink, you would DIE.

if i drank my organic fertalizers, the WORST thing that MIGHT happen, is a bacterial infection and some diarrhea.

P.S: If humans were aliens it might nor be natural. Natural, is anything Derived from NATURE. humans are derived from nature, so yea... it IS natural, whether you want it to be or not..... Hydro electricity, organic fertalizer and a HPS bulb thats as close as you can get to actual sunlight because it creates a Hydrogen Plasma to create the light (the same thing the sun does...)

PP.S. you might want to learn about chelated metals, and see what your actualy smoking in hydroponic buds. Boron, silica, calcium, magnesium, iron..... your smoking a shitload of metal if you use hydro nutes :)
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I have a real personal problem with commercial fertilizers, "organic" or not. Again this is my personal issue. The global food supply has been taken over by corporations that don't care about us, only our $. Chemical fertilizers don't accommodate the micro-life, so the soil can become sterile. At that point you're stuck in the cycle of needing to continue to fertilize since you've killed off the microbes.

SCORE: Corporation- 1 We the people -0

Then since we have no microbial friends, the bad organisms come strolling in the front door, and we need anti-biotics and pesticides. More business for the corporations.

SCORE: Corporation-2 We the people - 0
 
Corbat420

Corbat420

Well-Known Member
At that point you're stuck in the cycle of needing to continue to fertilize since you've killed off the microbes.
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Or simpley Reconstitute the Soil +1 for the People.

Then since we have no microbial friends, the bad organisms come strolling in the front door, and we need anti-biotics and pesticides. More business for the corporations.
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OR people should just stop bitching, realize that the life span of a north american is 80+ YEARS (its 40~ in africa....) andstop taking the anti-biotics so their body can make up a resistance.
+1 more for the people.

Rogr you choose to be a slave because YOU refuse to break your shackles. you just keep believing what they tell you.....

oh yea, and heres one for you simple Rogr. i get my Bat guano from a cave 20 mins away, my Seabird guano from a beach less than an hour away.....the Kelp comes out of the Sea that i swim in on a regular basis, and so does the fish emulsion.....

you CHOOSE to be a slave.
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Not sure that we're on the same page. I'm suggesting that we as humans need to get back to using compost and EWC, and abandon commercial fertilizers and pesticides. I'm thinking we're saying the same thing.
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I think companies selling bottled ferts is a money grab. Personally. Doesn't matter to me if they are chem ferts, "organic," "vegan,", it's all about pushing some new thing in a bottle.
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
Corbat420 said:
i get my Bat guano from a cave 20 mins away, my Seabird guano from a beach less than an hour away.....the Kelp comes out of the Sea that i swim in on a regular basis, and so does the fish emulsion..... [/B]
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I wish I could do that also. That's what I'm talking about.
 
Nullis

Nullis

Moderator
doc111 said:
You also rarely hear the "sustainability" organic folks crying about the decimation of bat colonies due to irresponsible harvesting of certain bat guanos.;-)
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I love bat guano. It's thee shit.

That said, I am VERY concerned about the decimation of bat colonies. In my local area the native bat species have been virtually wiped out. Not so much because of irresponsible harvesting of guano, but a ruthless disease... and either nobody picked up on it quick enough or the they were unwilling or powerless to do anything about it.

I hope that due to the commercial interest in bat populations whose guano is harvested, there would be a more vested interest in the sustainability of that practice. OMRI guano should also be 'safe' in terms of not disrupting the bats.
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Rrog said:
I think companies selling bottled ferts is a money grab. Personally. Doesn't matter to me if they are chem ferts, "organic," "vegan,", it's all about pushing some new thing in a bottle.
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Of course it's a money grab! That's what business is! You make a product, package it and sell it for a profit. Anytime you make a purchase you are putting money into someone's pocket. I don't mind putting money into a business's pocket as long as they act responsibly. I've boycotted numerous businesses because of unethical or dangerous practices. Not all corporations are bad, you just need to do your homework and not put money into the pockets of the bad guys. They aren't all bad.;-)
 
Rrog

Rrog

Well-Known Member
I'm referring to Cargill, Monsanto, Dow Chemical, etc. These people view us as sheep for fleecing
 
doc111

doc111

Well-Known Member
Nullis said:
I love bat guano. It's thee shit.

That said, I am VERY concerned about the decimation of bat colonies. In my local area the native bat species have been virtually wiped out. Not so much because of irresponsible harvesting of guano, but a ruthless disease... and either nobody picked up on it quick enough or the they were unwilling or powerless to do anything about it.

I hope that due to the commercial interest in bat populations whose guano is harvested, there would be a more vested interest in the sustainability of that practice. OMRI guano should also be 'safe' in terms of not disrupting the bats.
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I couldn't agree more! We've got to pay attention to what the company does, not the pretty pictures and claims made on the package. No doubt bat guano is some of the best organic fertilizer out there for cannabis growers (well, any organic grower for that matter. lol!). We are witnessing all sorts of problems with species such as bats. Honey bees are another species suffering from some, as of yet, undiagnosed problem. There are many theories but nobody really knows exactly what's happening. Most people don't realize how critical honey bees and bats are to our ecosystem. :cry:

You would think that some of these companies harvesting bat guano would not want to shoot the goose that lays the golden egg, but humans are often a short-sighted species. They think someone else will take care of the problem.:evil:
 
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