Organic flowering nutes?

My soil mix has consisted of blood meal, bone meal, manure, earthworm poop, and I have been watering with fish fert for nitrogen but it won't be long before its time for flowering so I want to provide more phosphorus. What are some good organic options for phosphorus? I was thinking of adding some more bone meal but have heard it contains large amounts of nitrogen? I was also going to water with kelp and molasses. Are these good ideas? Anything different worth trying?

Thank you any feedback is appreciated!

Dadopeboii said:

My soil mix has consisted of blood meal, bone meal, manure, earthworm poop, and I have been watering with fish fert for nitrogen but it won't be long before its time for flowering so I want to provide more phosphorus. What are some good organic options for phosphorus? I was thinking of adding some more bone meal but have heard it contains large amounts of nitrogen? I was also going to water with kelp and molasses. Are these good ideas? Anything different worth trying?

Thank you any feedback is appreciated!

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no bone meal isn't a good idea, takes to long to be bioavailable, and you need a sorta acidic condition for that to even happen, also it can contain deadly prion disease too.
I would go with bat guano, and kelp meal.
go light on the molasses and make sure its high quality black strap unsulfured
also don't be afraid of nitrogen during flowering, it's a hydro myth that cannabis doesn't still need good amounts of it

I have been using this with some success.

Verde Fire Bloom by Earth Juice it works great easy to use and won't burn em http://www.hydro-organics.com/site/products/green-reign-plant-foods/earth-juice-verde-fire-bloom-j0396/

As soon as I see someone say "bonemeal" I figure they already have enough P.
I NEVER add molasses to waterings. NOT the juju it's put out to be, not at all!
Molasses place is in brewing AACT. Maybe in some feed teas. I always use a Kelp extract in every other watering. I like Age Old or Maxicrop seaweed best....
You might consider that you don't really want to up the P till a cpl of weeks into bloom! Then less then you think. I like higher K levels all through out the run.....Be sure your (S)ulfur levels are up for bloom.

Personally, I build my own water only soils - A veg soil that goes in with every up potting till the plant is ready to flip. I then up pot with the "bloom" soil and let it sit in veg for 8 days and into the bloom room it goes.

The roots dry fert organic line is nice!

Dr. Who said:

As soon as I see someone say "bonemeal" I figure they already have enough P.
I NEVER add molasses to waterings. NOT the juju it's put out to be, not at all!
Molasses place is in brewing AACT. Maybe in some feed teas. I always use a Kelp extract in every other watering. I like Age Old or Maxicrop seaweed best....
You might consider that you don't really want to up the P till a cpl of weeks into bloom! Then less then you think. I like higher K levels all through out the run.....Be sure your (S)ulfur levels are up for bloom.

Personally, I build my own water only soils - A veg soil that goes in with every up potting till the plant is ready to flip. I then up pot with the "bloom" soil and let it sit in veg for 8 days and into the bloom room it goes.

The roots dry fert organic line is nice!

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I agree 100%
and it seems to be a sensitive topic recently....
some mistakingly link it to trichome production....

Thanks everybody for all the feedback! I don't have a good grow shop close to me with good brands so I just went to the grocery store and picked up some jobes dry bulb food, looks to have some good ingredients for flowering (don't have it at the moment to look at) I believe it had bone meal, sulfate of potash, manure, and maybe some other stuff, should that work good for me? Also got some liquid kelp meal, but decided to skip the molasses.

May go check the hydro shop and get some good stuff when I get closer to flowering

For flowering nutrients I like to top dress with a mix of kelp meal, oyster shells ,EWC ,compost , and insect frass, with an occasional ACT/AACT/SST.

I like and use bonemeal. I also only use it in fresh mixes and some reamends, never as a top dress. Totally agree with both Dr. W and GMM as to both break down time and amount needed. If it was added to your mix, you have enough now.

What would really kick everything up a notch in flower and what the plants crave is Ca, S, and K.

A top dress of gypsum would take care of the Calcium and Sulfur. Plain old 'soil conditioner' at HD or Lowes. $12 or so for a 40# bag.

Kelp meal would do for the K. *I* prefer meal, like used for feed and avoid liquids, extracts, concentrates, whatever. You'll see for yourself when you get some kelp meal since you have the liquid right now. But get the meal when you can.

Snag the garden gypsum now though.

Wet

Wetdog said:

I like and use bonemeal. I also only use it in fresh mixes and some reamends, never as a top dress. Totally agree with both Dr. W and GMM as to both break down time and amount needed. If it was added to your mix, you have enough now.

What would really kick everything up a notch in flower and what the plants crave is Ca, S, and K.

A top dress of gypsum would take care of the Calcium and Sulfur. Plain old 'soil conditioner' at HD or Lowes. $12 or so for a 40# bag.

Kelp meal would do for the K. *I* prefer meal, like used for feed and avoid liquids, extracts, concentrates, whatever. You'll see for yourself when you get some kelp meal since you have the liquid right now. But get the meal when you can.

Snag the garden gypsum now though.

Wet

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you use bovine bone meal man?
you know about the scary prion stuff?

greasemonkeymann said:

you use bovine bone meal man?
you know about the scary prion stuff?

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If you can cite an example of bone meal and the 'scary prion stuff' I will take serious note, but *I* have never seen it mentioned and you'd think mad cow or similar from using bone meal would make the news ... somewhere.

Been keeping an eye out for anything related since right after I started using bonemeal 6 or 7 years ago and am still using it.

Wet

Dadopeboii said:

My soil mix has consisted of blood meal, bone meal, manure, earthworm poop, and I have been watering with fish fert for nitrogen but it won't be long before its time for flowering so I want to provide more phosphorus. What are some good organic options for phosphorus? I was thinking of adding some more bone meal but have heard it contains large amounts of nitrogen? I was also going to water with kelp and molasses. Are these good ideas? Anything different worth trying?

Thank you any feedback is appreciated!

Click to expand...

If you use steamed bine meal that is a fine grade powder it is a 0-10-0 and immediately available. You can just mix it in the top soil for a more delayed approach and mix it in water for a faster dosing.

A real cal phos extraction process is pretty basic but tedious. I do it as much as i can.

Take a kilo of bones, char them over a flame until blackened but not disintegrated. Let cool. Pour a liter if the cheepest vinegar you can find. Itll be white wine vinegar from the grocers.
Cover loosely, wait a week to two weeks depending on the temperature. CO2 will be released when the vinegar and charred bones come in contact.



Pulls out calcium phosphate with little nitrogen due to charring.

Dilute 1:100 in water for a basic strength feeding. Play around with strengths as you play around with making your own fertilizers.

Ash can be a quick but carcinogenic potassium source.

Personally i like fermented fruit extracts from high potassium fruits. Bananas, avocados, grapefruits, pumpkins. They have nitrogen so should be wound down about half way through flower. But they're nearly free in costs.

I use compost from fruits and vegetables, its high in N and K from this and tend to find i need to supplement P as a top dress and in liquid

Wetdog said:

If you can cite an example of bone meal and the 'scary prion stuff' I will take serious note, but *I* have never seen it mentioned and you'd think mad cow or similar from using bone meal would make the news ... somewhere.

Been keeping an eye out for anything related since right after I started using bonemeal 6 or 7 years ago and am still using it.

Wet

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Well that's the thing, there isn't a direct link, the way prion disease manifests itself is over years and years, often decades, the scary thing is there are scientists/doctors that hypothesize that altzheimer and prion disease are the same thing, they do both in fact, cause the same type of spongiform encephalopathy, both have long "incubation" periods, both terminal.
WAY too many similarities, and considering our very limited understanding on prion-disease to begin with, and it's frightening.

so considering that, I prefer fish bone meal or swine bone meal


http://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/GuidanceComplianceEnforcement/ComplianceEnforcement/BovineSpongiformEncephalopathy/default.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15190676

http://www.dana.org/News/Details.aspx?id=43210

I probably have more respect for you than any other grower here, so I know you'll look into it.
it's a lil weird, and they don't like to create ANY stirs in the beef industry (remember even the almighty OPRAH getting nailed by them)
so ANY talks about prion disease and beef and THAT is seriously something that gets kept down...
sorta like Monsanto and cancer
or the energy industry and fracking
enough "hush-hush" money and it's kept relatively quiet

Wetdog said:

If you can cite an example of bone meal and the 'scary prion stuff' I will take serious note, but *I* have never seen it mentioned and you'd think mad cow or similar from using bone meal would make the news ... somewhere.

Been keeping an eye out for anything related since right after I started using bonemeal 6 or 7 years ago and am still using it.

Wet

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the other thing that concerns me is that the bovine bone meal you get, may be from Europe, asia, etc, most likely the U.S. considering shipping, but we have had cases of BSE in the States as well.
whether it may or may not have prions issues, it's comprised of hundreds if not thousands of cows, so that's compounds the risk, and THEN the fact that most bone meals are actually the ones you get for plants are the ones from old ass cows (over 30 months), which compounds the risk even further.
i'm not in any way saying that bonemeal causes mad cow, but I don't KNOW that it doesn't either, and it does have some base in science for there to be eyebrows raised.
especially considering that its so easy to source other bone meals.
they don't test all cows, and the symptoms take up to over a decade to show it...
alzheimers is everywhere, and we don't know whats causing that...
crushed spinal parts are where the risk is at... which is what is in bone meal..
I may be a paranoid but is it the worth it?
I used to deliver papers as a kid, in a retirement mobile home park, I saw a real nice guy go from being normal to a zombie, not even a shell of himself.
anyways, between ALS and Alzheimers.. both freak me the fuck out..

Just remember humans used to like lead on everything... and we took opium for colds.. leeches for medical treatment...

just is a lil scary...
and prions are NO joke.

don't forget about bat guano jamaican 0-10-0, indonesian 0-7-0 immediately available adds to soil web maybe soluble kelp powder 0-0-17

@GMM
I need to go check out my bag of bone meal because I remember from a few years back a bag stated "from porcine sources" and I made a quip about pissed off pig rather than a mad cow.

To me and for my purposes, bone is pretty much bone and the pig bone worked just fine. Never tried fish bone because the shipping doubles or triples the cost to way beyond what I'm willing to pay.. If it was available at even close to the same price point as local, I'd be on it like white on rice. Locally, it's just under $1/lb ($19.29/20lb bag). The bag also says "derived from bone meal, steamed" with no hint of the animal. But, coming from Texas, one can make a pretty good guess.

Also, hopefully, the practice of adding ground up neural parts to feed is pretty much ended. From what I've read, it was never that common in the U.S., but big in the U.K./Europe. Then again, all that could just be spin from the US cattle assoc.

Sadly, you are oh so right about big money and cover-up's/spin. The internet has been great at exposing a lot of this and not so great with creating some real wack-a-do conspiracy theories. One really needs a fine tuned bullshit detector.

I'll be checking out those links you provided, you can be sure of that.

Wet

Wetdog said:

@GMM
I need to go check out my bag of bone meal because I remember from a few years back a bag stated "from porcine sources" and I made a quip about pissed off pig rather than a mad cow.

To me and for my purposes, bone is pretty much bone and the pig bone worked just fine. Never tried fish bone because the shipping doubles or triples the cost to way beyond what I'm willing to pay.. If it was available at even close to the same price point as local, I'd be on it like white on rice. Locally, it's just under $1/lb ($19.29/20lb bag). The bag also says "derived from bone meal, steamed" with no hint of the animal. But, coming from Texas, one can make a pretty good guess.

Also, hopefully, the practice of adding ground up neural parts to feed is pretty much ended. From what I've read, it was never that common in the U.S., but big in the U.K./Europe. Then again, all that could just be spin from the US cattle assoc.

Sadly, you are oh so right about big money and cover-up's/spin. The internet has been great at exposing a lot of this and not so great with creating some real wack-a-do conspiracy theories. One really needs a fine tuned bullshit detector.

I'll be checking out those links you provided, you can be sure of that.

Wet

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if it's porcine you are golden, my friend!
doesn't do a damn thing to pigs

darkzero said:

don't forget about bat guano jamaican 0-10-0, indonesian 0-7-0 immediately available adds to soil web maybe soluble kelp powder 0-0-17

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And Mexican too if you need nitrogen, I also use the Peruvian bird guano it's pelletized so it has some advantages and disadvantages.

Yodaweed said:

And Mexican too if you need nitrogen, I also use the Peruvian bird guano it's pelletized so it has some advantages and disadvantages.

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Mexican 8-1-1 Peruvian 12-11-2

Wetdog said:

I like and use bonemeal. I also only use it in fresh mixes and some reamends, never as a top dress. Totally agree with both Dr. W and GMM as to both break down time and amount needed. If it was added to your mix, you have enough now.

What would really kick everything up a notch in flower and what the plants crave is Ca, S, and K.

A top dress of gypsum would take care of the Calcium and Sulfur. Plain old 'soil conditioner' at HD or Lowes. $12 or so for a 40# bag.

Kelp meal would do for the K. *I* prefer meal, like used for feed and avoid liquids, extracts, concentrates, whatever. You'll see for yourself when you get some kelp meal since you have the liquid right now. But get the meal when you can.

Snag the garden gypsum now though.

Wet

Click to expand...

I build with Kelp meals and amend with extracts as needed......Methods and choices always vary and we each think ours to be better.
Maybe, for the most part. I'll bet we are not that different at all for kelp effectiveness.

Do what works for you, and be happy!