Obama's address to congress.......

jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
The Warlord said:
Well, i guess thats just a .00000001% chance we'll have to take.........or reality sets in and dad calls my Super Rich aunt and she slaps down a spare million to pay for my intensive care and a get well card......

I get that your just trying to make a point in general (and use me to make it) but still, l i don't wanna have to pay for goverment run health care I don't want and WONT use......:peace:
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^^^^^^This guy cannot be serious. Don't you have homework to do? The transition to high school can be difficult - you may want to study.
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
I think that Obama was very persuasive and did a good job of promoting health care reform. I believe that Obama believes in what he is doing, and I think that the rude SOB should have been escorted from the meeting. It wasn't a debate it was a presidential address, and should have been attended with the upmost respect for the person and position. I think that we should all remember that Obama earned the presidency, he is our president and when he feels the need to address us we should be respectful enough to listen.

For me it's just one more hand in my back pocket that I don't want but can't do anything about. I don't want a federal run retirement plan in the form of social security, I shouldn't have to pay school tax so that your child can get educated, I don't want medicare or medicade, and I don't want anything else that will bite into my paycheck.
I'm already paying over 30% in federal taxes alone, this doesn't include state tax, county tax, city tax, and sales tax. That's damn near 4 months out of the year in wages going to the federal goverment. The shame is that I can't even qualify for one of the "hand out" programs that my money helps fund, not even medicare. When I retire and qualify for social security, the goverment is going to cut my social security benifits because I made the decision to have a good career that will provide for me in my retirement.
I feel that I should do for myself; meaning that I should be responsible enough take full responsibility for my own actions and not ask others to provide for me or support my irresponsible decisions. I do understand that from time to time the best of us needs help, but if you need extended charity you probably need to reaccess your priorities.
The children card is not exactly tugging at my heart strings. I do feel for the children because they had no choice, but the parent/s that had a child/ren that they could not support should be held responsible, not given welfare and told that it isn't their fault. Don't encourage bad behavior by rewarding it.
I earn my money and I am entitled to the money that my labor earns; period. Your decisions should have no affect on my paycheck, but in the last century social programs (not my way of saying socialism) have dug deeper and deeper into my paycheck.
My very simple view is this; Let me take care of mine and I will let you take care of yours. I don't care if you don't save for retirement, can't afford your children, or can't afford to go to the doctor.
 
MuyLocoNC

MuyLocoNC

Well-Known Member
iivan, I like the way you think. I'm with you on almost every point. I think we are fairly in line with the Libertarian party, there's just a few too many kooks in there for me to jump in with both feet.

I find it absurd that some people chastise others for commenting on things they think the plan will do, by saying there is no bill yet. But these same individuals have no problem arguing that there will be no this or that, because it's not in the bill. Hypocritical at best.

As far as the speech, nothing new was offered other that flowery statements and assurances. NOTHING. If we don't believe a word coming out of this guys mouth before, what guarantees other than his promises were offered. I know some of you on here love the guy, and that's great. But don't go thinking anything was set in stone or proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Listen up, we know it is the agenda to offer amnesty and citizenship as well as health care to illegal immigrants. We have the words of practically every sitting Democrat in both houses as well as the President. So, don't call us crazy or liars when we offer the likelihood that they will be covered in the plan. Same thing goes for abortion (which I personally have no problem with, except for the really late term stuff... too ghastly for my taste). I know, I know the bill hasn't been written yet... but that's exactly the point, you have to make your case for what goes in to the bill BEFORE it is written. We have all seen how fast an unread and completely ridiculous bill written by WHO KNOWS WHO can be approved.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
For me it's just one more hand in my back pocket that I don't want but can't do anything about. I don't want a federal run retirement plan in the form of social security, I shouldn't have to pay school tax so that your child can get educated, I don't want medicare or medicade, and I don't want anything else that will bite into my paycheck.
I'm already paying over 30% in federal taxes alone, this doesn't include state tax, county tax, city tax, and sales tax. That's damn near 4 months out of the year in wages going to the federal goverment. The shame is that I can't even qualify for one of the "hand out" programs that my money helps fund, not even medicare. When I retire and qualify for social security, the goverment is going to cut my social security benifits because I made the decision to have a good career that will provide for me in my retirement.
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I definantly understand how you feel, but here is something that helps me when I see the taxes go out.

We are able to make this kind of money because of education. When we were children we received a good education. That allowed us to be more specialized and make more money later. The schools at that time where paid for by the older generations taxes. So we directly benefited from them.

All those things like roads, electricity, drug development, internet, running water, all where paid for by the older generations. Things that allow us to function like we can today, and earn far better incomes than we would have if those things were not there. And now that they are in the last years we should look after them for all that they had done for us.

Now is our turn, we need to pay our taxes for the 30-40 years in the middle (25-65) to pay for the things we had used pretty much free 0-25, and the benefits we will use when we are 65-85. The money that we pay in we will get the benefits from.

And by paying for education, what happens is that the next generations will be able to aquire newer and better skills and make more money in the market place, and benefit all of the country when their turn comes up to take over the reigns of the country.

And hope that they don't see how selfish we have been to the other generations and decide to continue with that practice.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Listen up, we know it is the agenda to offer amnesty and citizenship as well as health care to illegal immigrants. We have the words of practically every sitting Democrat in both houses as well as the President. So, don't call us crazy or liars when we offer the likelihood that they will be covered in the plan. Same thing goes for abortion (which I personally have no problem with, except for the really late term stuff... too ghastly for my taste). I know, I know the bill hasn't been written yet... but that's exactly the point, you have to make your case for what goes in to the bill BEFORE it is written. We have all seen how fast an unread and completely ridiculous bill written by WHO KNOWS WHO can be approved.
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1. If they are offered citizenship, they are not illegal anymore right? And if they are legal they would have social security numbers, and that means they would pay taxes. They are already here and already using the things we pay for, why not have them pay for it? Busing them out doesn't work, putting them in jail would be more costly and have no return. So what is the best option? Make them citizens and have them start to pay their way.

2. If they are illegal immigrants they will not be able to be on the plan.

3. If they are legal immigrants (again not illegal), would you prefer them to not have to pay for the care they receive?

4. The bill is not finalized yet, they are up for all to see the current versions. Some form of all of them will be used, so it is good to know what is in them, but the reason things like actuarial (the math) studies of them is difficult is that they are not in final form, so you could have several things change that would render the figures useless.
 
Bud Frosty

Bud Frosty

Well-Known Member
NorthwestBuds said:
The other rabid wing nuts have not chimed in? Could it be the outrageous behavior of South Carolina's Rep Joe Wilson calling the POTUS a liar in the house of congress? What a disgrace...
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Let me start by saying I'm about as middle of the road as they come. I see merit in both sides of the coin. Both parties have legitimate concerns and agendas but, Rep. Wilson's comment was ALMOST as disgraceful as dozens of Democrats booing and talking amongst themselves when Bush was speaking.
 
Green Cross

Green Cross

Well-Known Member
"My Friends, :mrgreen:

Last night, during his speech to a joint session of Congress and the nation, President Obama outlined his new proposal for health care reform. While I respect the President's point of view, and hope for an eventual compromise, I believe his proposal amounts to an egregiously expensive and expansive form of government-run health care.

After a month of hosting and attending town hall meetings with my constituents in Arizona and around the country, I know that Americans want health care reform. But what is so very clear to me is that Americans want to reform health care in the right way. I am more convinced than ever that we must fix what is wrong with our health care system while doing no harm to the parts that work well.

This means we need to have malpractice reform, we must emphasize wellness and fitness, give people the option to get the health insurance of their choice and bring the cost of health care under control.

If you agree, that we need to reform health care reform the right way, then I ask you to sign my health care reform petition today by following this link.
I am very troubled by the potential cost of the President's outlined plans. I know that you are very concerned with the national debt and a projected $9 trillion deficit. The prospective cost of the President's plan could reach $2 trillion, and frankly, our country simply cannot afford this price tag.

I will not support heath care reform that adds to the out-of-control spending spree the Democrats in Congress have gone on this year. And I ask you to join me in rejecting the addition of $2 trillion of debt by signing this petition right away.

Government-run health care is something we simply cannot afford, and I know that the majority of Americans agree with me that it is not the quality of health care that needs reforming, but the cost. But, I need to know you stand with me. Will you follow this link to sign my petition?

As you know, the Democrats in Washington are doing everything in their power to push through their proposed reform full of political gimmicks. Your action today will send a clear message to them; we don't want government-run health care. Thank you, my friend, for your support and involvement on this very important national issue.
Thank you,
John McCain

P.S. The Democrats have pledged to "move forward" with their $2 trillion plan regardless of Republican support. But, it is up to us to do everything in our power to put a stop to the wasteful spending and enact health care reform in the right way. Please sign this petition today and if you are able to, make a generous contribution to my reelection effort. Thank you."

Already signed it :mrgreen:
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC thank you, and I believe that my views are fairly in line with the Libertarian party. I also agree that some of their leaders are a bit radical.

hanimmal I can undersand your position, but I think that we see things a little differently. I do not have a problem with selfishness. I will admit that my views are a bit selfish and self promoting. It is one of the things that drives me at my very core, one of the reasons that I have what I have, and one of the reasons that I feel pain when I look at my paycheck. I would like to take the time to respond to a few of your very understandable points. I am not trying to say that you are right or wrong in your views, the following is simple how I was raised and how I feel.
hanimmal said:
i definantly understand how you feel, but here is something that helps me when i see the taxes go out.
we are able to make this kind of money because of education. When we were children we received a good education. That allowed us to be more specialized and make more money later. The schools at that time where paid for by the older generations taxes. So we directly benefited from them..
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My parents paid for my education along with my 4 other sisters and 1 brother. They payed the full load for montessori school and other private schools. They also paid school tax for other children to be able to be educated, and back then there were no private school vouchers. You are righ I received the best education that my family could afford but it had nothing to do with the school tax levied on my parents. When I went to college there was no federal money (tax money) for my education since my parents were hard working well paid citizens. Now when I continue my education I can not get any federal (tax money). My parents were responsible enough to be able to support the family that they created and took responsibility for their actions. So, in my situation I have to say that my parents not my parents generation provided my education.
I have no children and I do not believe that it is my responsibility to provide education for others. I admit that this is selfish but understand that I do not go to work for altruistic reasons.

hanimmal said:
all those things like roads, electricity, drug development, internet, running water, all where paid for by the older generations. Things that allow us to function like we can today, and earn far better incomes than we would have if those things were not there. And now that they are in the last years we should look after them for all that they had done for us..
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I have no problem paying taxes for creation of and maintenance of public utilities such as roads. Eletricity a privitized industry, and as such is paid for by the developers and clients. If I build a subdivision the eletricity is not run within that subdivision by the goverment it is paid for by the developer. When I built my house I had to pay for the eletricity to be run to my site. I believe that water works should be run in a similar fashion but in the intrest of cleanliness and sanitation much of our water, waste, and sewage programs are maintained by the goverment. I understand this and agian I have no problem paying taxes to support something that I use. Drug development is most definitly NOT deserving of the money that it procures from the federal goverment. Drugs are not developed for the good of mankind, they are developed for financial reasons. This is not to say that newly developed drugs don't help people.
hanimmal said:
now is our turn, we need to pay our taxes for the 30-40 years in the middle (25-65) to pay for the things we had used pretty much free 0-25, and the benefits we will use when we are 65-85. The money that we pay in we will get the benefits from. .
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I'm sorry but I don't remember anything being free for the first 25 yrs. of my life. My parents worked hard to support me. When I was 19 they put all of that on me, so from 19 to present I have supported myself. They were and are there if I need a hand, but I would be to afraid to ask until I had no other choice. In the past I have asked for help and was given assistance from my parents, let's just say that I fully understand the consiquences for my actions that led me to need help and I learned from them......
hanimmal said:
and by paying for education, what happens is that the next generations will be able to aquire newer and better skills and make more money in the market place, and benefit all of the country when their turn comes up to take over the reigns of the country..
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I agree fully and I believe that the people who decide to bring children into this world should be willing and able to pay for that choice. My view is that it is a choice to have a child and should be treated as such. This is with the exception of rape.
I also agree that education is needed to further ones self in this world.
hanimmal said:
and hope that they don't see how selfish we have been to the other generations and decide to continue with that practice.
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IMHO America is great because of its selfish nature. We want more, bigger, and better. We work hard so that we can spend more and play harder. We are a nation founded and based on individual freedoms.
 
BradyBoe

BradyBoe

Active Member
World democracy!!! We will eventually have one world ruler...maybe not in our time, but when it happen's, everyone will be better off! This whole right wing left wing BS is a bunch of propaganda. If we really want freedom, we have to have world democracy, bottom line. One republic.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
We are not far apart.

I respect everything that you said, and do feel that it is all very valid. It is just a slightly different view that I take with it.

When I say first 25 years, I simply mean that the money we make do not even come close to the amount of taxes we spend to use the system that we later help pay for. I have been working since I was 13, and have always paid taxes on it, but it really was not much at all until I was about 20. But at that point I had to leave college and put my fiance' through. But now I am back to finish my degree so I am not the norm. But usually until 25 we don't make the amount of money that we do 25-65, so there is not as much money being taken out for taxes. Meaning that the burden usually will fall on the 25-65 age group, and the outside ages benefit the most with the least being taken out.


And when it is time for us to have kids I too will be springing for private education. And fully 100% believe that it is a far better place of learning than public education, which is usually stretched to the breaking point, and about 6 years behind the times in technology. But here is another look at the taxes being used, where did the teachers that are there get their education? If they got it with public institutions or with federal loans (college) then we are still benefiting from the government programs. And that means the older generations taxes that helped allow for their education.

And even if we are paying for our education, it does not mean that we did not benefit from other people getting a 'free' education. If we just learned from people that were able to afford private education, then we would be much further behind where we are now education wise. And I think we can agree that the better educated you are the more you can contribute to society in general.

Recently I have had to amend my belief of our country becoming stupider. I don't really feel like that is the case. I just think that we have been caught up and surpassed in that aspect by other countries, and are slow to change our views on it. Math and sciences need to be everyones number 1 priority in education. We are still becoming more educated it is just no longer as far ahead of the rest of the world as we once were.

I agree that greed is one of our most powerful tools in this country. We understand it and allow for it in almost everything that we do. But it needs to have a check and balance of having to compete with other peoples greed. That is really the only way to keep it in check, because eventually we will learn how to circumvent the laws in place that try to do that.
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
MuyLocoNC said:
iivan, I like the way you think. I'm with you on almost every point. I think we are fairly in line with the Libertarian party, there's just a few too many kooks in there for me to jump in with both feet.

I find it absurd that some people chastise others for commenting on things they think the plan will do, by saying there is no bill yet. But these same individuals have no problem arguing that there will be no this or that, because it's not in the bill. Hypocritical at best.

As far as the speech, nothing new was offered other that flowery statements and assurances. NOTHING. If we don't believe a word coming out of this guys mouth before, what guarantees other than his promises were offered. I know some of you on here love the guy, and that's great. But don't go thinking anything was set in stone or proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Listen up, we know it is the agenda to offer amnesty and citizenship as well as health care to illegal immigrants. We have the words of practically every sitting Democrat in both houses as well as the President. So, don't call us crazy or liars when we offer the likelihood that they will be covered in the plan. Same thing goes for abortion (which I personally have no problem with, except for the really late term stuff... too ghastly for my taste). I know, I know the bill hasn't been written yet... but that's exactly the point, you have to make your case for what goes in to the bill BEFORE it is written. We have all seen how fast an unread and completely ridiculous bill written by WHO KNOWS WHO can be approved.
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Illegal immigrant are already covered, so maybe the plan won't change that. but I don't know. Any illegal can go into any hospital right now and receive care. That's a fact. What's Obama going to change?

And who here really loves the guy? I haven't met a single one of them.
 
iivan740

iivan740

Well-Known Member
The respect is mutual hanimmal. When your right your right, and you sir are right as rain. I have definitly benifited from public education in the broader sense, and I agree with everything that you posted above. And I do mean everything from public education to checks and balances. Furthermore I must say that I agree with most of what I have seen you post, and even when I did not agree I can see valid points to the post.
 
M

Mrphilliplesh

Member
Anjinsan said:
So medicare will be trimmed of waste and inefficiencies to the tune of several 100 billion dollars...and that money will go to another government program that will be efficient and non-wasteful? Is that the gist? That would be the first time ever. EVER. Everything the government touched previously...has been wasteful and inefficient...but not this time? I MUST BE RACIST as I am skeptical. Only racist people are skeptical of Obama's words...right?

The program will cost 900 billion dollars but not add to the deficit. Ok...sure just like passing the 2nd bailout bill would keep us under 8% unemployment right?

It was said by Obama that even 1/10th of one % reduction in healthcare costs would save us 4 trillion dollars...right? So what would 1/10th of 1% addition in healthcare costs...cost? Look at the chart provided...Obama is not Nostradamus. He cannot see months into the future...let alone years.

and the Kennedy bit was pathetic. Obama acted like he and Ted used to go out drunk driving and leaving women to drown in cars while they worked on alibis together or something.
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my friend this simply isnt true. you republicans say, " since when can the government run anything?" and then site the postal service and medicare? ask senior citizens who have medicare if they like it, an overwhelming yes will insue. ask them if they want to give up this "GOVENMENT RUN PROGRAM" and no one will say yes. and when has the postal service ever needed a bailout? or went bankrupt? its all lies man. the truth govt can run programs when you foolish republicans dont water down the bills. Give obama a chance we all agree there must be some reform, so lets pass a bill and then fix it as we go. fuck the party of no.
 
M

Mrphilliplesh

Member
jrh72582 said:
Illegal immigrant are already covered, so maybe the plan won't change that. but I don't know. Any illegal can go into any hospital right now and receive care. That's a fact. What's Obama going to change?

And who here really loves the guy? I haven't met a single one of them.
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alright you, there is no money set aside in the bill to cover illegal immigrants and thats a fact. and thats what obama says.

having said that, if someone is in critical condition they will recieve care becuz this is america jackass. so some illegal immigrants will get treatment and we will all have to pay for them, but obama isnt lying.

read a book or look up something for once instead of having hannity spoon feed you.
 
K

Keenly

Guest
BradyBoe said:
World democracy!!! We will eventually have one world ruler...maybe not in our time, but when it happen's, everyone will be better off! This whole right wing left wing BS is a bunch of propaganda. If we really want freedom, we have to have world democracy, bottom line. One republic.
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democracy and republic are not the same thing



one world government is the opposite of the answer

we need many smaller nations to keep eachother in check
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
alright you, there is no money set aside in the bill to cover illegal immigrants and thats a fact. and thats what obama says.

having said that, if someone is in critical condition they will recieve care becuz this is america jackass. so some illegal immigrants will get treatment and we will all have to pay for them, but obama isnt lying.

read a book or look up something for once instead of having hannity spoon feed you.
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Wow dude, maybe you should read a bit on this post, and then respond once you have a better idea of things. Because that is possibly the most uneducated and undeniably wrong statement on this entire board, and that is saying a lot.
 
doowmd

doowmd

Well-Known Member
obama should have had that idiot escorted out w/ the quickness!!! it blows me away that that type of thing could even happen: some attention mongering senator shouting at the president during a national address. that is embarrassing as an american. and although one could compare it to the hushed mumbling of the dems during one of bush's addresses, u would be a fool to do so! because although it was impolite for them to have been doing that, for a senator to stand and call his president a liar is imo a treasonous offense!
 
jrh72582

jrh72582

Well-Known Member
Mrphilliplesh said:
alright you, there is no money set aside in the bill to cover illegal immigrants and thats a fact. and thats what obama says.

having said that, if someone is in critical condition they will recieve care becuz this is america jackass. so some illegal immigrants will get treatment and we will all have to pay for them, but obama isnt lying.

read a book or look up something for once instead of having hannity spoon feed you.
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If you only knew, dude. You have no clue who I am.

I am easily the most anti-Hannity on this entire forum.
 
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