Obama ... He's Lookin' Good!

CrackerJax

New Member
I have read the parts which are going to cost me...yes....and you. i've read the part where even if you don't join, you still must pay into it. i have read where businesses which don't offer it will also have to pay. Choice? Where's the choice? Where's the fairness in that? I've also read where after a time point NO NEW PRIVATE POLICIES CAN BE WRITTEN. so through all the blah blah blah.....it's really a takeover....by taxation and regulatory force.

I've read enough to know it's a lie....a big fat lie, and a very costly one at that. Not only in money, but also my health is at stake. Well done....I'm glad you're for all that!

As for your comments on medicare and medicaid...chipped away... well that is exactly how the Govt. works....what makes you think health care will be ANY different....it won't.
 

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
The bill that is not even written yet, so how could I read it? Which of the three current in debate are you talking about? And I am listening to spin, the thing isn't even done and your already saying how bad it is and deciding why the he set a timeline for it!

Face it you are a right wing tool. Even if your not a republican you are buying into all this panic they are selling.
You post more in favor of this legislation, single handedly, than all those here opposed. And yet you haven't read the bill that hasn't been written (us in the know realize this is part of the strategy; leave the people, who the bill will affect, in the dark until after it's passed)? Those of us who oppose government mediocrity and government force stand on firm ground, tool. You, you're buying the hype and trying to sell that shit at a handsome profit.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Did you not see the link that I had posted. The entire (0ne of three) bill that I did is over a thousands pages long.

Can you tell me the page number and line that says no new policies can be written, I would like to read that for myself.

Negotiation is give and take, if you want to buy a used car for $3k you should start at $2500 and work up from there. You put things that you know will be negotiated out through the process.

And ChChoda, I am opposed to doing nothing because people don't understand. Everyone is paying for the system we have now.

Those of us who oppose government mediocrity and government force stand on firm ground, tool. You, you're buying the hype and trying to sell that shit at a handsome profit.
And your playing right into the hands of what you oppose. Shit needs to change, for the better. If you think that doing nothing will mean that it will become better you are wrong. If you need/want something better you pay, if you want something cheaper you have to figure out a way to cut costs. And if people are making huge profits at the expense of what they are buying becoming worse there is room in the middle to improve both ways.
 

medicineman

New Member
You post more in favor of this legislation, single handedly, than all those here opposed. And yet you haven't read the bill that hasn't been written (us in the know realize this is part of the strategy; leave the people, who the bill will affect, in the dark until after it's passed)? Those of us who oppose government mediocrity and government force stand on firm ground, tool. You, you're buying the hype and trying to sell that shit at a handsome profit.

0Yeah, Right. I guess you are a speed reader with access to all the bills, eh? Bullshit, you are parroting the repuke talking points, right off of FOX noise. I guess you have the plan you like and fuck everyone else. Typical right winger, I've got mine, fuck you. I know one thing, right now, the insurance companies are running the health care show, and they don't care one fuck about you or I, just the bottom line, strewn with the corpses of turned down procedures.
 

ChChoda

Well-Known Member
SEC. 102- Outlaws private insurance by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of 4 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:


(1) LIMITATIONONNEWENROLLMENT.—

(A) INGENERAL.—Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first ef-14
fective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS.—

(A) Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.


SEC. 122- YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 122. ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED.

(2) ANNUAL LIMITATION-

(A) ANNUAL LIMITATION- The cost-sharing incurred under the essential benefits package with respect to an individual (or family) for a year does not exceed the applicable level specified in subparagraph (B).

(B) APPLICABLE LEVEL- The applicable level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year by the annual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index (United States city average) applicable to such year.

(C) USE OF COPAYMENTS- In establishing cost-sharing levels for basic, enhanced, and premium plans under this subsection, the Secretary shall, to the maximum extent possible, use only copayments and not coinsurance.


SEC. 123 - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

(a) ESTABLISHMENT.— IN GENERAL.—There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.


SEC. 142 - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

SEC. 142 DUTIES AND AUTHORITY OF COMMISSIONER

(a) Duties- The Commissioner is responsible for carrying out the following functions under this division:

(1) QUALIFIED PLAN STANDARDS- The establishment of qualified health benefits plan standards under this title, including the enforcement of such standards in coordination with State insurance regulators and the Secretaries of Labor and the Treasury.

(2) HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE- The establishment and operation of a Health Insurance Exchange under subtitle A of title II.

(3) INDIVIDUAL AFFORDABILITY CREDITS- The administration of individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits.

(4) ADDITIONAL FUNCTIONS- Such additional functions as may be specified in this division.


SEC. 152 - HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, ILLEGAL or otherwise.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

(a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.

(b) Implementation- To implement the requirement set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act are provided (whether directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.


SEC. 163. - Gov't will have real-time access to individuals' finances and a national ID health card will be issued- Government will have DIRECT access to your BANK ACCOUNTS for electronic funds transfer. This means the government can go in and take your money right out of your bank account.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 163. ADMINISTRATIVE SIMPLIFICATION.

(a) Standardizing Electronic Administrative Transactions-

(1) IN GENERAL- Part C of title XI of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1320d et seq.) is amended by inserting after section 1173 the following new section:

(D) enable the real-time (or near real-time) determination of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;

(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time adjudication of claims;


SEC. 201. - Government is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 201. ESTABLISHMENT OF HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE; OUTLINE OF DUTIES; DEFINITIONS.

(a) Establishment- There is established within the Health Choices Administration and under the direction of the Commissioner a Health Insurance Exchange in order to facilitate access of individuals and employers, through a transparent process, to a variety of choices of affordable, quality health insurance coverage, including a public health insurance option.

(b) Outline of Duties of Commissioner- In accordance with this subtitle and in coordination with appropriate Federal and State officials as provided under section 143(b), the Commissioner shall--

(1) under section 204 establish standards for, accept bids from, and negotiate and enter into contracts with, QHBP offering entities for the offering of health benefits plans through the Health Insurance Exchange, with different levels of benefits required under section 203, and including with respect to oversight and enforcement;

(2) under section 205 facilitate outreach and enrollment in such plans of Exchange-eligible individuals and employers described in section 202; and

(3) conduct such activities related to the Health Insurance Exchange as required, including establishment of a risk pooling mechanism under section 206 and consumer protections under subtitle D of title I.

(c) Exchange-participating Health Benefits Plan Defined- In this division, the term `Exchange-participating health benefits plan' means a qualified health benefits plan that is offered through the Health Insurance Exchange.
(ci)


SEC. 203. – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange and again RATIONS health care.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 203. BENEFITS PACKAGE LEVELS.

(a) In General- The Commissioner shall specify the benefits to be made available under Exchange-participating health benefits plans during each plan year, consistent with subtitle C of title I and this section.

(b) Limitation on Health Benefits Plans Offered by Offering Entities- The Commissioner may not enter into a contract with a QHBP offering entity under section 204(c) for the offering of an Exchange-participating health benefits plan in a service area unless the following requirements are met:

(1) REQUIRED OFFERING OF BASIC PLAN- The entity offers only one basic plan for such service area.

(2) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF ENHANCED PLAN- If and only if the entity offers a basic plan for such service area, the entity may offer one enhanced plan for such area.

(3) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM PLAN- If and only if the entity offers an enhanced plan for such service area, the entity may offer one premium plan for such area.

(4) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM-PLUS PLANS- If and only if the entity offers a premium plan for such service area, the entity may offer one or more premium-plus plans for such area.


SEC. 205. - The Government will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HC plan AND Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 205. OUTREACH AND ENROLLMENT OF EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS IN EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN.

(A) IN GENERAL-

(1) OUTREACH- The Commissioner shall conduct outreach activities consistent with subsection (c), including through use of appropriate entities as described in paragraph (4) of such subsection, to inform and educate individuals and employers about the Health Insurance Exchange and Exchange-participating health benefits plan options. Such outreach shall include outreach specific to vulnerable populations, such as children, individuals with disabilities, individuals with mental illness, and individuals with other cognitive impairments.

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT FOR NON-MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS-

(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which individuals who are Exchange-eligible individuals described in subparagraph (B) are automatically enrolled under an appropriate Exchange-participating health benefits plan. Such process may involve a random assignment or some other form of assignment that takes into account the health care providers used by the individual involved or such other relevant factors as the Commissioner may specify.

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT OF MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS INTO MEDICAID- The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.


SEC. 223. - No company can sue the GOVERNMENT on price fixing! No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly!!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 223. PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES

(f) Limitations on Review- There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section or under section 224.


SEC. 225. – Doctors/ AMA – The Government will tell YOU what you can make.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 225. PROVIDER PARTICIPATION

(a) In General- The Secretary shall establish conditions of participation for health care providers under the public health insurance option.

(b) Licensure or Certification- The Secretary shall not allow a health care provider to participate in the public health insurance option unless such provider is appropriately licensed or certified under State law.

(c) Payment Terms for Providers-

(1) PHYSICIANS- The Secretary shall provide for the annual participation of physicians under the public health insurance option, for which payment may be made for services furnished during the year, in one of 2 classes:

(A) PREFERRED PHYSICIANS- Those physicians who agree to accept the payment rate established under section 223 (without regard to cost-sharing) as the payment in full.

(B) PARTICIPATING, NON-PREFERRED PHYSICIANS- Those physicians who agree not to impose charges (in relation to the payment rate described in section 223 for such physicians) that exceed the ratio permitted under section 1848(g)(2)(C) of the Social Security Act.


SEC. 312. - An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan and employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. NO CHOICE!!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE

(a) In General- An employer meets the requirements of this section with respect to an employee if the following requirements are met:

(1) OFFERING OF COVERAGE- The employer offers the coverage described in section 311(1) either through an Exchange-participating health benefits plan or other than through such a plan.

(2) EMPLOYER REQUIRED CONTRIBUTION- The employer timely pays to the issuer of such coverage an amount not less than the employer required contribution specified in subsection (b) for such coverage.

(3) PROVISION OF INFORMATION- The employer provides the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable, with such information as the Commissioner may require to ascertain compliance with the requirements of this section.

(4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES- The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).

(b) Reduction of Employee Premiums Through Minimum Employer Contribution-

(3) MINIMUM EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION FOR EMPLOYEES OTHER THAN FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES- In the case of coverage for an employee who is not a full-time employee, the amount of the minimum employer contribution under this subsection shall be a proportion (as determined in accordance with rules of the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable) of the minimum employer contribution under this subsection with respect to a full-time employee that reflects the proportion of--

(A) the average weekly hours of employment of the employee by the employer, to

(B) the minimum weekly hours specified by the Commissioner for an employee to be a full-time employee.


SEC. 401. - ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of income AND Any NONRESIDENT Alien is EXEMPT from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE

Subpart A--Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage

`Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

`SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

`(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--

(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

(c) Exceptions-

(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS- Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien.


SEC. 1122. - Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 1122. MISVALUED CODES UNDER THE PHYSICIAN FEE SCHEDULE.

(a) In General- Section 1848(c)(2) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(c)(2)) is amended by adding at the end the following new subparagraphs:

(K) POTENTIALLY MISVALUED CODES-

(i) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall--

(I) periodically identify services as being potentially misvalued using criteria specified in clause (ii); and

(II) review and make appropriate adjustments to the relative values established under this paragraph for services identified as being potentially misvalued under subclause (I).

(ii) IDENTIFICATION OF POTENTIALLY MISVALUED CODES- For purposes of identifying potentially misvalued services pursuant to clause (i)(I), the Secretary shall examine (as the Secretary determines to be appropriate) codes (and families of codes as appropriate) for which there has been the fastest growth; codes (and families of codes as appropriate) that have experienced substantial changes in practice expenses; codes for new technologies or services within an appropriate period (such as three years) after the relative values are initially established for such codes; multiple codes that are frequently billed in conjunction with furnishing a single service; codes with low relative values, particularly those that are often billed multiple times for a single treatment; codes which have not been subject to review since the implementation of the RBRVS (the so-called `Harvard-valued codes'); and such other codes determined to be appropriate by the Secretary.


SEC. 1141. - Federal Government regulates rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs

H.R. 3200 STATES:

PART 3--OTHER PROVISIONS

SEC. 1141. RENTAL AND PURCHASE OF POWER-DRIVEN WHEELCHAIRS.

(a) In General- Section 1834(a)(7)(A)(iii) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395m(a)(7)(A)(iii)) is amended--

(1) in the heading, by inserting `CERTAIN COMPLEX REHABILITATIVE' after `OPTION FOR'; and

(2) by striking `power-driven wheelchair' and inserting `complex rehabilitative power-driven wheelchair recognized by the Secretary as classified within group 3 or higher'.

(b) Effective Date- The amendments made by subsection (a) shall take effect on January 1, 2011, and shall apply to power-driven wheelchairs furnished on or after such date. Such amendments shall not apply to contracts entered into under section 1847 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-3) pursuant to a bid submitted under such section before October 1, 2010, under subsection (a)(1)(B)(i)(I) of such section.

SEC. 1145. – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing! You may not get that 'specilized' cancer treatment center as an option.

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS.

Section 1833(t) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395l(t)) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

(18) AUTHORIZATION OF ADJUSTMENT FOR CANCER HOSPITALS-

(A) STUDY- The Secretary shall conduct a study to determine if, under the system under this subsection, costs incurred by hospitals described in section 1886(d)(1)(B)(v) with respect to ambulatory payment classification groups exceed those costs incurred by other hospitals furnishing services under this subsection (as determined appropriate by the Secretary).

(B) AUTHORIZATION OF ADJUSTMENT- Insofar as the Secretary determines under subparagraph (A) that costs incurred by hospitals described in section 1886(d)(1)(B)(v) exceed those costs incurred by other hospitals furnishing services under this subsection, the Secretary shall provide for an appropriate adjustment under paragraph (2)(E) to reflect those higher costs effective for services furnished on or after January 1, 2011.'.

SEC. 1151. - The Government will penalize hospitals for what Government deems preventable readmissions. Doctors! Treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission? Government will penalize you.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS.

(a) Hospitals-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 1886 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395ww), as amended by section 1103(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

(p) Adjustment to Hospital Payments for Excess Readmissions-

(1) IN GENERAL- With respect to payment for discharges from an applicable hospital (as defined in paragraph (5)(C)) occurring during a fiscal year beginning on or after October 1, 2011, in order to account for excess readmissions in the hospital, the Secretary shall reduce the payments that would otherwise be made to such hospital under subsection (d) (or section 1814(b)(3), as the case may be) for such a discharge by an amount equal to the product of--

(d) Physicians-

(1) STUDY- The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall conduct a study to determine how the readmissions policy described in the previous subsections could be applied to physicians.

(2) CONSIDERATIONS- In conducting the study, the Secretary shall consider approaches such as--

(A) creating a new code (or codes) and payment amount (or amounts) under the fee schedule in section 1848 of the Social Security Act (in a budget neutral manner) for services furnished by an appropriate physician who sees an individual within the first week after discharge from a hospital or critical access hospital;

(B) developing measures of rates of readmission for individuals treated by physicians;

(C) applying a payment reduction for physicians who treat the patient during the initial admission that results in a readmission; and

(D) methods for attributing payments or payment reductions to the appropriate physician or physicians.



SEC. 1156. - PROHIBITION on ownership and investment! Government tells Doctors what and how much they can own!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 1156. LIMITATION ON MEDICARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE PROHIBITION ON CERTAIN PHYSICIAN REFERRALS MADE TO HOSPITALS

(B) PROHIBITION ON PHYSICIAN OWNERSHIP OR INVESTMENT- The percentage of the total value of the ownership or investment interests held in the hospital, or in an entity whose assets include the hospital, by physician owners or investors in the aggregate does not exceed such percentage as of the date of enactment of this subsection.


SEC. 1177 - Gov't will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 1177. EXTENSION OF AUTHORITY OF SPECIAL NEEDS PLANS TO RESTRICT ENROLLMENT.

(a) In General- Section 1859(f)(1) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-28(f)(1)) is amended by striking `January 1, 2011' and inserting `January 1, 2013 (or January 1, 2016, in the case of a plan described in section 1177(b)(1) of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009)'.

(b) Grandfathering of Certain Plans-

(1) PLANS DESCRIBED- For purposes of section 1859(f)(1) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-28(f)(1)), a plan described in this paragraph is a plan that had a contract with a State that had a State program to operate an integrated Medicaid-Medicare program that had been approved by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services as of January 1, 2004.

(2) ANALYSIS; REPORT- The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall provide, through a contract with an independent health services evaluation organization, for an analysis of the plans described in paragraph (1) with regard to the impact of such plans on cost, quality of care, patient satisfaction, and other subjects as specified by the Secretary. Not later than December 31, 2011, the Secretary shall submit to Congress a report on such analysis and shall include in such report such recommendations with regard to the treatment of such plans as the Secretary deems appropriate.


SEC. 1233. - Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life. Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death! Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends! An “advance care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
“advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

H.R. 3200 Ststaes:

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION

(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term `advance care planning consultation' means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include--

(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual's family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;

(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and

(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decisionmaker (also known as a health care proxy).
 

bgmike8

Well-Known Member
I have read the parts which are going to cost me...yes....and you. i've read the part where even if you don't join, you still must pay into it. i have read where businesses which don't offer it will also have to pay. Choice? Where's the choice? Where's the fairness in that? I've also read where after a time point NO NEW PRIVATE POLICIES CAN BE WRITTEN. so through all the blah blah blah.....it's really a takeover....by taxation and regulatory force.

I've read enough to know it's a lie....a big fat lie, and a very costly one at that. Not only in money, but also my health is at stake. Well done....I'm glad you're for all that!

As for your comments on medicare and medicaid...chipped away... well that is exactly how the Govt. works....what makes you think health care will be ANY different....it won't.


so true. its like common sense just isnt good enough. people are so fucking stupid. if it not a takeover then why couldnt people have the simple choice of enrolling in a new policy after the law is passed? seems very clear cut to me.
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
When the Chicken Ranch Whore House filed bankruptcy, our Federal goverment took them over, and tried to run it, and keep it afloat.....and miserbly failed.

If our goverment can not run or manage a simple whore house.............then.........................

how in the hell can we expect them to run or manage our health care system?
 

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
SEC. 102- Outlaws private insurance by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.

(a) GRANDFATHERED HEALTH INSURANCE COVERAGE DEFINED.—Subject to the succeeding provisions of 4 this section, for purposes of establishing acceptable coverage under this division, the term ‘‘grandfathered health insurance coverage’’ means individual health insurance coverage that is offered and in force and effect before the first day of Y1 if the following conditions are met:


(1) LIMITATIONONNEWENROLLMENT.—

(A) INGENERAL.—Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first ef-14
fective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1.

(B) DEPENDENT COVERAGE PERMITTED.—Subparagraph (A) shall not affect the subsequent enrollment of a dependent of an individual who is covered as of such first day.

(2) LIMITATION ON CHANGES IN TERMS OR CONDITIONS.—

(A) Subject to paragraph (3) and except as required by law, the issuer does not change any of its terms or conditions, including benefits and cost-sharing, from those in effect as of the day before the first day of Y1.


SEC. 122- YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 122. ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED.

(2) ANNUAL LIMITATION-

(A) ANNUAL LIMITATION- The cost-sharing incurred under the essential benefits package with respect to an individual (or family) for a year does not exceed the applicable level specified in subparagraph (B).

(B) APPLICABLE LEVEL- The applicable level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year by the annual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index (United States city average) applicable to such year.

(C) USE OF COPAYMENTS- In establishing cost-sharing levels for basic, enhanced, and premium plans under this subsection, the Secretary shall, to the maximum extent possible, use only copayments and not coinsurance.


SEC. 123 - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

(a) ESTABLISHMENT.— IN GENERAL.—There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.


SEC. 142 - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

SEC. 142 DUTIES AND AUTHORITY OF COMMISSIONER

(a) Duties- The Commissioner is responsible for carrying out the following functions under this division:

(1) QUALIFIED PLAN STANDARDS- The establishment of qualified health benefits plan standards under this title, including the enforcement of such standards in coordination with State insurance regulators and the Secretaries of Labor and the Treasury.

(2) HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE- The establishment and operation of a Health Insurance Exchange under subtitle A of title II.

(3) INDIVIDUAL AFFORDABILITY CREDITS- The administration of individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits.

(4) ADDITIONAL FUNCTIONS- Such additional functions as may be specified in this division.


SEC. 152- HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, ILLEGAL or otherwise.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

(a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.

(b) Implementation- To implement the requirement set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act are provided (whether directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.


SEC. 163. - Gov't will have real-time access to individuals' finances and a national ID health card will be issued- Government will have DIRECT access to your BANK ACCOUNTS for electronic funds transfer. This means the government can go in and take your money right out of your bank account.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 163. ADMINISTRATIVE SIMPLIFICATION.

(a) Standardizing Electronic Administrative Transactions-

(1) IN GENERAL- Part C of title XI of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1320d et seq.) is amended by inserting after section 1173 the following new section:

(D) enable the real-time (or near real-time) determination of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;

(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time adjudication of claims;


SEC. 201. - Government is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 201. ESTABLISHMENT OF HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE; OUTLINE OF DUTIES; DEFINITIONS.

(a) Establishment- There is established within the Health Choices Administration and under the direction of the Commissioner a Health Insurance Exchange in order to facilitate access of individuals and employers, through a transparent process, to a variety of choices of affordable, quality health insurance coverage, including a public health insurance option.

(b) Outline of Duties of Commissioner- In accordance with this subtitle and in coordination with appropriate Federal and State officials as provided under section 143(b), the Commissioner shall--

(1) under section 204 establish standards for, accept bids from, and negotiate and enter into contracts with, QHBP offering entities for the offering of health benefits plans through the Health Insurance Exchange, with different levels of benefits required under section 203, and including with respect to oversight and enforcement;

(2) under section 205 facilitate outreach and enrollment in such plans of Exchange-eligible individuals and employers described in section 202; and

(3) conduct such activities related to the Health Insurance Exchange as required, including establishment of a risk pooling mechanism under section 206 and consumer protections under subtitle D of title I.

(c) Exchange-participating Health Benefits Plan Defined- In this division, the term `Exchange-participating health benefits plan' means a qualified health benefits plan that is offered through the Health Insurance Exchange.
(ci)


SEC. 203. – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange and again RATIONS health care.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 203. BENEFITS PACKAGE LEVELS.

(a) In General- The Commissioner shall specify the benefits to be made available under Exchange-participating health benefits plans during each plan year, consistent with subtitle C of title I and this section.

(b) Limitation on Health Benefits Plans Offered by Offering Entities- The Commissioner may not enter into a contract with a QHBP offering entity under section 204(c) for the offering of an Exchange-participating health benefits plan in a service area unless the following requirements are met:

(1) REQUIRED OFFERING OF BASIC PLAN- The entity offers only one basic plan for such service area.

(2) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF ENHANCED PLAN- If and only if the entity offers a basic plan for such service area, the entity may offer one enhanced plan for such area.

(3) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM PLAN- If and only if the entity offers an enhanced plan for such service area, the entity may offer one premium plan for such area.

(4) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM-PLUS PLANS- If and only if the entity offers a premium plan for such service area, the entity may offer one or more premium-plus plans for such area.


SEC. 205. - The Government will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HC plan AND Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 205. OUTREACH AND ENROLLMENT OF EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS IN EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN.

(A) IN GENERAL-

(1) OUTREACH- The Commissioner shall conduct outreach activities consistent with subsection (c), including through use of appropriate entities as described in paragraph (4) of such subsection, to inform and educate individuals and employers about the Health Insurance Exchange and Exchange-participating health benefits plan options. Such outreach shall include outreach specific to vulnerable populations, such as children, individuals with disabilities, individuals with mental illness, and individuals with other cognitive impairments.

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT FOR NON-MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS-

(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which individuals who are Exchange-eligible individuals described in subparagraph (B) are automatically enrolled under an appropriate Exchange-participating health benefits plan. Such process may involve a random assignment or some other form of assignment that takes into account the health care providers used by the individual involved or such other relevant factors as the Commissioner may specify.

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT OF MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS INTO MEDICAID- The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.


SEC. 223.- No company can sue the GOVERNMENT on price fixing! No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly!!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 223. PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES

(f) Limitations on Review- There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section or under section 224.


SEC. 225. – Doctors/ AMA – The Government will tell YOU what you can make.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 225. PROVIDER PARTICIPATION

(a) In General- The Secretary shall establish conditions of participation for health care providers under the public health insurance option.

(b) Licensure or Certification- The Secretary shall not allow a health care provider to participate in the public health insurance option unless such provider is appropriately licensed or certified under State law.

(c) Payment Terms for Providers-

(1) PHYSICIANS- The Secretary shall provide for the annual participation of physicians under the public health insurance option, for which payment may be made for services furnished during the year, in one of 2 classes:

(A) PREFERRED PHYSICIANS- Those physicians who agree to accept the payment rate established under section 223 (without regard to cost-sharing) as the payment in full.

(B) PARTICIPATING, NON-PREFERRED PHYSICIANS- Those physicians who agree not to impose charges (in relation to the payment rate described in section 223 for such physicians) that exceed the ratio permitted under section 1848(g)(2)(C) of the Social Security Act.


SEC. 312. - An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan and employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. NO CHOICE!!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE

(a) In General- An employer meets the requirements of this section with respect to an employee if the following requirements are met:

(1) OFFERING OF COVERAGE- The employer offers the coverage described in section 311(1) either through an Exchange-participating health benefits plan or other than through such a plan.

(2) EMPLOYER REQUIRED CONTRIBUTION- The employer timely pays to the issuer of such coverage an amount not less than the employer required contribution specified in subsection (b) for such coverage.

(3) PROVISION OF INFORMATION- The employer provides the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable, with such information as the Commissioner may require to ascertain compliance with the requirements of this section.

(4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES- The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).

(b) Reduction of Employee Premiums Through Minimum Employer Contribution-

(3) MINIMUM EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION FOR EMPLOYEES OTHER THAN FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES- In the case of coverage for an employee who is not a full-time employee, the amount of the minimum employer contribution under this subsection shall be a proportion (as determined in accordance with rules of the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable) of the minimum employer contribution under this subsection with respect to a full-time employee that reflects the proportion of--

(A) the average weekly hours of employment of the employee by the employer, to

(B) the minimum weekly hours specified by the Commissioner for an employee to be a full-time employee.


SEC. 401. - ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of income AND Any NONRESIDENT Alien is EXEMPT from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE

Subpart A--Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage

`Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

`SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

`(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--

(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

(c) Exceptions-

(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS- Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien.


SEC. 1122. - Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 1122. MISVALUED CODES UNDER THE PHYSICIAN FEE SCHEDULE.

(a) In General- Section 1848(c)(2) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(c)(2)) is amended by adding at the end the following new subparagraphs:

(K) POTENTIALLY MISVALUED CODES-

(i) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall--

(I) periodically identify services as being potentially misvalued using criteria specified in clause (ii); and

(II) review and make appropriate adjustments to the relative values established under this paragraph for services identified as being potentially misvalued under subclause (I).

(ii) IDENTIFICATION OF POTENTIALLY MISVALUED CODES- For purposes of identifying potentially misvalued services pursuant to clause (i)(I), the Secretary shall examine (as the Secretary determines to be appropriate) codes (and families of codes as appropriate) for which there has been the fastest growth; codes (and families of codes as appropriate) that have experienced substantial changes in practice expenses; codes for new technologies or services within an appropriate period (such as three years) after the relative values are initially established for such codes; multiple codes that are frequently billed in conjunction with furnishing a single service; codes with low relative values, particularly those that are often billed multiple times for a single treatment; codes which have not been subject to review since the implementation of the RBRVS (the so-called `Harvard-valued codes'); and such other codes determined to be appropriate by the Secretary.


SEC. 1141. - Federal Government regulates rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs

H.R. 3200 STATES:

PART 3--OTHER PROVISIONS

SEC. 1141. RENTAL AND PURCHASE OF POWER-DRIVEN WHEELCHAIRS.

(a) In General- Section 1834(a)(7)(A)(iii) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395m(a)(7)(A)(iii)) is amended--

(1) in the heading, by inserting `CERTAIN COMPLEX REHABILITATIVE' after `OPTION FOR'; and

(2) by striking `power-driven wheelchair' and inserting `complex rehabilitative power-driven wheelchair recognized by the Secretary as classified within group 3 or higher'.

(b) Effective Date- The amendments made by subsection (a) shall take effect on January 1, 2011, and shall apply to power-driven wheelchairs furnished on or after such date. Such amendments shall not apply to contracts entered into under section 1847 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-3) pursuant to a bid submitted under such section before October 1, 2010, under subsection (a)(1)(B)(i)(I) of such section.

SEC. 1145. – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing! You may not get that 'specilized' cancer treatment center as an option.

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS.

Section 1833(t) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395l(t)) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

(18) AUTHORIZATION OF ADJUSTMENT FOR CANCER HOSPITALS-

(A) STUDY- The Secretary shall conduct a study to determine if, under the system under this subsection, costs incurred by hospitals described in section 1886(d)(1)(B)(v) with respect to ambulatory payment classification groups exceed those costs incurred by other hospitals furnishing services under this subsection (as determined appropriate by the Secretary).

(B) AUTHORIZATION OF ADJUSTMENT- Insofar as the Secretary determines under subparagraph (A) that costs incurred by hospitals described in section 1886(d)(1)(B)(v) exceed those costs incurred by other hospitals furnishing services under this subsection, the Secretary shall provide for an appropriate adjustment under paragraph (2)(E) to reflect those higher costs effective for services furnished on or after January 1, 2011.'.

SEC. 1151. - The Government will penalize hospitals for what Government deems preventable readmissions. Doctors! Treat a patient during initial admission that results in a readmission? Government will penalize you.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 1151. REDUCING POTENTIALLY PREVENTABLE HOSPITAL READMISSIONS.

(a) Hospitals-

(1) IN GENERAL- Section 1886 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395ww), as amended by section 1103(a), is amended by adding at the end the following new subsection:

(p) Adjustment to Hospital Payments for Excess Readmissions-

(1) IN GENERAL- With respect to payment for discharges from an applicable hospital (as defined in paragraph (5)(C)) occurring during a fiscal year beginning on or after October 1, 2011, in order to account for excess readmissions in the hospital, the Secretary shall reduce the payments that would otherwise be made to such hospital under subsection (d) (or section 1814(b)(3), as the case may be) for such a discharge by an amount equal to the product of--

(d) Physicians-

(1) STUDY- The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall conduct a study to determine how the readmissions policy described in the previous subsections could be applied to physicians.

(2) CONSIDERATIONS- In conducting the study, the Secretary shall consider approaches such as--

(A) creating a new code (or codes) and payment amount (or amounts) under the fee schedule in section 1848 of the Social Security Act (in a budget neutral manner) for services furnished by an appropriate physician who sees an individual within the first week after discharge from a hospital or critical access hospital;

(B) developing measures of rates of readmission for individuals treated by physicians;

(C) applying a payment reduction for physicians who treat the patient during the initial admission that results in a readmission; and

(D) methods for attributing payments or payment reductions to the appropriate physician or physicians.



SEC. 1156. - PROHIBITION on ownership and investment! Government tells Doctors what and how much they can own!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 1156. LIMITATION ON MEDICARE EXCEPTIONS TO THE PROHIBITION ON CERTAIN PHYSICIAN REFERRALS MADE TO HOSPITALS

(B) PROHIBITION ON PHYSICIAN OWNERSHIP OR INVESTMENT- The percentage of the total value of the ownership or investment interests held in the hospital, or in an entity whose assets include the hospital, by physician owners or investors in the aggregate does not exceed such percentage as of the date of enactment of this subsection.


SEC. 1177 - Gov't will RESTRICT enrollment of special needs people

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 1177. EXTENSION OF AUTHORITY OF SPECIAL NEEDS PLANS TO RESTRICT ENROLLMENT.

(a) In General- Section 1859(f)(1) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-28(f)(1)) is amended by striking `January 1, 2011' and inserting `January 1, 2013 (or January 1, 2016, in the case of a plan described in section 1177(b)(1) of the America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009)'.

(b) Grandfathering of Certain Plans-

(1) PLANS DESCRIBED- For purposes of section 1859(f)(1) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-28(f)(1)), a plan described in this paragraph is a plan that had a contract with a State that had a State program to operate an integrated Medicaid-Medicare program that had been approved by the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services as of January 1, 2004.

(2) ANALYSIS; REPORT- The Secretary of Health and Human Services shall provide, through a contract with an independent health services evaluation organization, for an analysis of the plans described in paragraph (1) with regard to the impact of such plans on cost, quality of care, patient satisfaction, and other subjects as specified by the Secretary. Not later than December 31, 2011, the Secretary shall submit to Congress a report on such analysis and shall include in such report such recommendations with regard to the treatment of such plans as the Secretary deems appropriate.


SEC. 1233. - Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consult. Think Senior Citizens end of life. Government will instruct and consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory! Government provides approved list of end of life resources, guiding you in death! Government mandates program for orders for end of life. The Government has a say in how your life ends! An “advance care planning consultant” will be used frequently as patients health deteriorates.
“advance care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from GOV
The Government will specify which Doctors can write an end of life order. The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

H.R. 3200 Ststaes:

SEC. 1233. ADVANCE CARE PLANNING CONSULTATION

(1) Subject to paragraphs (3) and (4), the term `advance care planning consultation' means a consultation between the individual and a practitioner described in paragraph (2) regarding advance care planning, if, subject to paragraph (3), the individual involved has not had such a consultation within the last 5 years. Such consultation shall include the following:

(A) An explanation by the practitioner of advance care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to.

(B) An explanation by the practitioner of advance directives, including living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses.

(C) An explanation by the practitioner of the role and responsibilities of a health care proxy.

(D) The provision by the practitioner of a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families with advance care planning, including the national toll-free hotline, the advance care planning clearinghouses, and State legal service organizations (including those funded through the Older Americans Act of 1965).

(E) An explanation by the practitioner of the continuum of end-of-life services and supports available, including palliative care and hospice, and benefits for such services and supports that are available under this title.

(F)(i) Subject to clause (ii), an explanation of orders regarding life sustaining treatment or similar orders, which shall include--

(I) the reasons why the development of such an order is beneficial to the individual and the individual's family and the reasons why such an order should be updated periodically as the health of the individual changes;

(II) the information needed for an individual or legal surrogate to make informed decisions regarding the completion of such an order; and

(III) the identification of resources that an individual may use to determine the requirements of the State in which such individual resides so that the treatment wishes of that individual will be carried out if the individual is unable to communicate those wishes, including requirements regarding the designation of a surrogate decisionmaker (also known as a health care proxy).
Put that in your pipe and smoke it:shock:
 

Roseman

Elite Rolling Society
HB 1388 PASSED


Whether you are an Obama fan, or not, EVERYONE IN THE U. S. needs to know....

Something happened... H.R. 1388 was passed this month, behind our backs. You may want to read about it. It wasn't mentioned on the news... just went by on the ticker tape at the bottom of the CNN screen.

Obama funds $20M in tax payer dollars to immigrate Hamas Refugees to the USA . This is the news that didn' t make the headlines...

By executive order, President Barack Obama has ordered the expenditure of $20.3 million in "migration assistance" to the Palestinian refugees and "conflict victims" in Gaza .

The "presidential determination", which allows hundreds of thousands of Palestinians with ties to Hamas to resettle in the United States, was signed on January 27 and appeared in the Federal Register on February 4.

Few on Capitol Hill, or in the media, took note that the order
provides a free ticket replete with housing and food allowances to individuals who have displayed their overwhelming support to the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas) in the parliamentary election of January 2006.

Let ' s review....itemized list of some of Barack Obama ' s most recent actions since his inauguration:

His first call to any head of state, as president, was to Mahmoud
Abbas, leader of Fatah party in the Palestinian territory.

His first one-on-one television interview with any news organization was with Al Arabia television.

His first executive order was to fund/facilitate abortion(s) not just here within the U. S. , but within the world, using U. S. tax payer funds.

He ordered Guantanamo Bay closed and all military trials of detainees halted.

He ordered overseas CIA interrogation centers closed.

He withdrew all charges against the masterminds behind the USS Cole and the "terror attack" on 9/11.

Now we learn that he is allowing hundreds of thousands of Palestinian refuges to move to, and live in, the US at American taxpayer expense.

These important, and insightful, issues are being "lost" in the
blinding bail-outs and "stimulation" packages.

Doubtful? To verify this for yourself:
www.thefederalregister.com/d.p/2009-02-04-E9-2488

PLEASE PASS THIS ON... AMERICA NEEDS TO KNOW

WE are losing this country at a rapid pace.
 
P

PadawanBater

Guest
Roseman, that post was complete nonsense.

Stop spreading misinformation.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
SEC. 102- Outlaws private insurance by forbidding enrollment after HR 3022 is passed into law.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 102. PROTECTING THE CHOICE TO KEEP CURRENT COVERAGE.
Look at it again, closely: You can keep your current care as it is, add as many family under the current construct.
Your focusing on "(1) LIMITATIONONNEWENROLLMENT.—

(A) INGENERAL.—Except as provided in this paragraph, the individual health insurance issuer offering such coverage does not enroll any individual in such coverage if the first ef-14
fective date of coverage is on or after the first day of Y1."
But couldn't that also mean that the old form of insurance if it doesn't follow the regulations being put in place, that it would not be able to be sold 'as-is"? And would have to change to the regulations of the law.

SEC. 122- YOUR HEALTHCARE IS RATIONED!!!

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 122. ESSENTIAL BENEFITS PACKAGE DEFINED.

(2) ANNUAL LIMITATION-

(A) ANNUAL LIMITATION- The cost-sharing incurred under the essential benefits package with respect to an individual (or family) for a year does not exceed the applicable level specified in subparagraph (B).

(B) APPLICABLE LEVEL- The applicable level specified in this subparagraph for Y1 is $5,000 for an individual and $10,000 for a family. Such levels shall be increased (rounded to the nearest $100) for each subsequent year by the annual percentage increase in the Consumer Price Index (United States city average) applicable to such year.

(C) USE OF COPAYMENTS- In establishing cost-sharing levels for basic, enhanced, and premium plans under this subsection, the Secretary shall, to the maximum extent possible, use only copayments and not coinsurance.
It jumps 20 sections, so are those in regards to the public plan? Because there is a lot missing I cannot tell, which website did you get this from please I would like to look at those.

5000/10000 is the norm (at least my insurance) so not sure what your saying here, all insurance as it is set up now is rationed.

SEC. 123 - THERE WILL BE A GOVT COMMITTEE that decides what treatments/benefits you get

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 123. HEALTH BENEFITS ADVISORY COMMITTEE.

(a) ESTABLISHMENT.— IN GENERAL.—There is established a private-public advisory committee which shall be a panel of medical and other experts to be known as the Health Benefits Advisory Committee to recommend covered benefits and essential, enhanced, and premium plans.
So experts would constantly monitor and recommend changes that needs to be made is a bad thing???

SEC. 142 - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You have no choice!

SEC. 142 DUTIES AND AUTHORITY OF COMMISSIONER

(a) Duties- The Commissioner is responsible for carrying out the following functions under this division:

(1) QUALIFIED PLAN STANDARDS- The establishment of qualified health benefits plan standards under this title, including the enforcement of such standards in coordination with State insurance regulators and the Secretaries of Labor and the Treasury.

(2) HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE- The establishment and operation of a Health Insurance Exchange under subtitle A of title II.

(3) INDIVIDUAL AFFORDABILITY CREDITS- The administration of individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of eligibility for such credits.

(4) ADDITIONAL FUNCTIONS- Such additional functions as may be specified in this division.
So he is going to set standards for plans, and set up the guidelines for what would constitute 'need for credits' or in other words if you cannot afford it you get a discount.

How is that controlling the plan you decide to buy? Or if you even want to buy? Or what company you decide to buy from? I think this is a nut website, unless you just decided to take a long time pulling shit out of your ass.

SEC. 152- HC will be provided to ALL non US citizens, ILLEGAL or otherwise.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 152. PROHIBITING DISCRIMINATION IN HEALTH CARE.

(a) In General- Except as otherwise explicitly permitted by this Act and by subsequent regulations consistent with this Act, all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act shall be provided without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.

(b) Implementation- To implement the requirement set forth in subsection (a), the Secretary of Health and Human Services shall, not later than 18 months after the date of the enactment of this Act, promulgate such regulations as are necessary or appropriate to insure that all health care and related services (including insurance coverage and public health activities) covered by this Act are provided (whether directly or through contractual, licensing, or other arrangements) without regard to personal characteristics extraneous to the provision of high quality health care or related services.
Nothing said about citizenship status. It says "regardless to characteristics". I.e. I don't like black people I refuse to treat you. Your really making yourself look stupid here. The people that wrote the remarks were banking on the fact noone would actually read it, or worse yet understand it. They banked on your stupidity and won.

SEC. 163. - Gov't will have real-time access to individuals' finances and a national ID health card will be issued- Government will have DIRECT access to your BANK ACCOUNTS for electronic funds transfer. This means the government can go in and take your money right out of your bank account.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 163. ADMINISTRATIVE SIMPLIFICATION.

(a) Standardizing Electronic Administrative Transactions-

(1) IN GENERAL- Part C of title XI of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1320d et seq.) is amended by inserting after section 1173 the following new section:

(D) enable the real-time (or near real-time) determination of an individual's financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;

(E) enable, where feasible, near real-time adjudication of claims;

Where is section A, B, and C under section one? Do you think the nutbags realize that it says that you have to enroll in it (like everything else to get a government auto withdraw) Jesus christ if I didn't think one person might get something out of this I would quit wasting my time going through all this and trying to help people relax a bit.

SEC. 201. - Government is creating an HC Exchange to bring private HC plans under Government control.

H.R. 3200 states:

SEC. 201. ESTABLISHMENT OF HEALTH INSURANCE EXCHANGE; OUTLINE OF DUTIES; DEFINITIONS.

(a) Establishment- There is established within the Health Choices Administration and under the direction of the Commissioner a Health Insurance Exchange in order to facilitate access of individuals and employers, through a transparent process, to a variety of choices of affordable, quality health insurance coverage, including a public health insurance option.

(b) Outline of Duties of Commissioner- In accordance with this subtitle and in coordination with appropriate Federal and State officials as provided under section 143(b), the Commissioner shall--

(1) under section 204 establish standards for, accept bids from, and negotiate and enter into contracts with, QHBP offering entities for the offering of health benefits plans through the Health Insurance Exchange, with different levels of benefits required under section 203, and including with respect to oversight and enforcement;

(2) under section 205 facilitate outreach and enrollment in such plans of Exchange-eligible individuals and employers described in section 202; and

(3) conduct such activities related to the Health Insurance Exchange as required, including establishment of a risk pooling mechanism under section 206 and consumer protections under subtitle D of title I.

(c) Exchange-participating Health Benefits Plan Defined- In this division, the term `Exchange-participating health benefits plan' means a qualified health benefits plan that is offered through the Health Insurance Exchange.
(ci)
Says that they can bid on and enter contracts with, sounds more like they are buying something and not trying to control it to me.

SEC. 203. – Government mandates ALL benefit packages for private HC plans in the Exchange and again RATIONS health care.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 203. BENEFITS PACKAGE LEVELS.

(a) In General- The Commissioner shall specify the benefits to be made available under Exchange-participating health benefits plans during each plan year, consistent with subtitle C of title I and this section.

(b) Limitation on Health Benefits Plans Offered by Offering Entities- The Commissioner may not enter into a contract with a QHBP offering entity under section 204(c) for the offering of an Exchange-participating health benefits plan in a service area unless the following requirements are met:

(1) REQUIRED OFFERING OF BASIC PLAN- The entity offers only one basic plan for such service area.

(2) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF ENHANCED PLAN- If and only if the entity offers a basic plan for such service area, the entity may offer one enhanced plan for such area.

(3) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM PLAN- If and only if the entity offers an enhanced plan for such service area, the entity may offer one premium plan for such area.

(4) OPTIONAL OFFERING OF PREMIUM-PLUS PLANS- If and only if the entity offers a premium plan for such service area, the entity may offer one or more premium-plus plans for such area.
They are dictating that if a company is going to enter into the nasty government program that they have to do so under those guidelines. Doesn't that make sense? That if we are putting together an outline for a public healthcare plan that is not in existence that it has to follow the guidelines we want, and you cannot just do w/e you want and call it a public plan?

And also ration it through the plan that is picked. That way someone that is paying for the premium vs someone that just wants bare minimum get different packages?

ffs think for yourself man! Unless you wrote this, then your just a dumbass trying to stir the pot.

SEC. 205. - The Government will use groups i.e., ACORN & Americorps to sign up individuals for Government HC plan AND Medicaid Eligible Individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No choice!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 205. OUTREACH AND ENROLLMENT OF EXCHANGE-ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS AND EMPLOYERS IN EXCHANGE-PARTICIPATING HEALTH BENEFITS PLAN.

(A) IN GENERAL-

(1) OUTREACH- The Commissioner shall conduct outreach activities consistent with subsection (c), including through use of appropriate entities as described in paragraph (4) of such subsection, to inform and educate individuals and employers about the Health Insurance Exchange and Exchange-participating health benefits plan options. Such outreach shall include outreach specific to vulnerable populations, such as children, individuals with disabilities, individuals with mental illness, and individuals with other cognitive impairments.

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT FOR NON-MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS-

(A) IN GENERAL- The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which individuals who are Exchange-eligible individuals described in subparagraph (B) are automatically enrolled under an appropriate Exchange-participating health benefits plan. Such process may involve a random assignment or some other form of assignment that takes into account the health care providers used by the individual involved or such other relevant factors as the Commissioner may specify.

(3) AUTOMATIC ENROLLMENT OF MEDICAID ELIGIBLE INDIVIDUALS INTO MEDICAID- The Commissioner shall provide for a process under which an individual who is described in section 202(d)(3) and has not elected to enroll in an Exchange-participating health benefits plan is automatically enrolled under Medicaid.
They jumped so much here that it does not make sense. A to 3 is not a number system that I am used to so I am again guessing that something in there was important. And where do you see Acorn or Ameritrade's name in there?

The Commissioner shall conduct outreach activities consistent with subsection (c), including through use of appropriate entities as described in paragraph (4) of such subsection, to inform and educate individuals and employers about the Health Insurance Exchange and Exchange-participating health benefits plan options


Are they the only appropriate entitie to conduct outreach activities? Shit why not say the boys and girls group of america, or the cubscouts.

SEC. 223.- No company can sue the GOVERNMENT on price fixing! No “judicial review” against Government Monopoly!!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 223. PAYMENT RATES FOR ITEMS AND SERVICES

(f) Limitations on Review- There shall be no administrative or judicial review of a payment rate or methodology established under this section or under section 224.
They didn't even mess around and jumped strait to point (f) under a section called "Payment Rates for Items and Services".

So if someone wants to sue for say I did not want my payment taken this month even though I am enrolled in auto pay and didn't cancel it I will sue you, it would be stopped here. But I do not know as that was all redacted by your "Source"

SEC. 225. – Doctors/ AMA – The Government will tell YOU what you can make.

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 225. PROVIDER PARTICIPATION

(a) In General- The Secretary shall establish conditions of participation for health care providers under the public health insurance option.

(b) Licensure or Certification- The Secretary shall not allow a health care provider to participate in the public health insurance option unless such provider is appropriately licensed or certified under State law.

(c) Payment Terms for Providers-

(1) PHYSICIANS- The Secretary shall provide for the annual participation of physicians under the public health insurance option, for which payment may be made for services furnished during the year, in one of 2 classes:

(A) PREFERRED PHYSICIANS- Those
physicians who agree to accept the payment rate established
under section 223 (without regard to cost-sharing) as the payment in full.

(B) PARTICIPATING, NON-PREFERRED PHYSICIANS- Those physicians who agree not to impose charges (in relation to the payment rate described in section 223 for such physicians) that exceed the ratio permitted under section 1848(g)(2)(C) of the Social Security Act.
If docotors did not want to they wouldn't have agreed to be a preferred physician. And those that don't agree have to except what they already have excepted since the Social Security Act. Where is that affecting Dr's that are not already affected.

How many doctors do you know that are hurting under the current system?

SEC. 312. - An Employer MUST auto enroll employees into public option plan and employers MUST pay for HC for part time employees AND their families. NO CHOICE!!

H.R. 3200 States:

SEC. 312. EMPLOYER RESPONSIBILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS EMPLOYEE AND DEPENDENT COVERAGE

(a) In General- An employer meets the requirements of this section with respect to an employee if the following requirements are met:

(1) OFFERING OF COVERAGE- The employer offers the coverage described in section 311(1) either through an Exchange-participating health benefits plan or other than through such a plan.

(2) EMPLOYER REQUIRED CONTRIBUTION- The employer timely pays to the issuer of such coverage an amount not less than the employer required contribution specified in subsection (b) for such coverage.

(3) PROVISION OF INFORMATION- The employer provides the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable, with such information as the Commissioner may require to ascertain compliance with the requirements of this section.

(4) AUTOENROLLMENT OF EMPLOYEES- The employer provides for autoenrollment of the employee in accordance with subsection (c).

(b) Reduction of Employee Premiums Through Minimum Employer Contribution-

(3) MINIMUM EMPLOYER CONTRIBUTION FOR EMPLOYEES OTHER THAN FULL-TIME EMPLOYEES- In the case of coverage for an employee who is not a full-time employee, the amount of the minimum employer contribution under this subsection shall be a proportion (as determined in accordance with rules of the Health Choices Commissioner, the Secretary of Labor, the Secretary of Health and Human Services, and the Secretary of the Treasury, as applicable) of the minimum employer contribution under this subsection with respect to a full-time employee that reflects the proportion of--

(A) the average weekly hours of employment of the employee by the employer, to

(B) the minimum weekly hours specified by the Commissioner for an employee to be a full-time employee.
As 311 is not here we cannot begin to know what those requirements are. But you do know that your employer does pay for your health insurance now right?

SEC. 401. - ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5% of income AND Any NONRESIDENT Alien is EXEMPT from individual taxes. (Americans will pay)

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 401. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE

Subpart A--Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage

`Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

`SEC. 59B. TAX ON INDIVIDUALS WITHOUT ACCEPTABLE HEALTH CARE COVERAGE.

`(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of--

(1) the taxpayer's modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

(c) Exceptions-

(2) NONRESIDENT ALIENS- Subsection (a) shall not apply to any individual who is a nonresident alien.
Do you realize that there is absolutely no information copied and pasted there? What are the rates people will be taxed and for what income levels? What are the exemptions? Where is section 1 through 58? I would fail if I tried to turn that in as a paper.

SEC. 1122. - Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc. Literally value of humans.

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 1122. MISVALUED CODES UNDER THE PHYSICIAN FEE SCHEDULE.

(a) In General- Section 1848(c)(2) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-4(c)(2)) is amended by adding at the end the following new subparagraphs:

(K) POTENTIALLY MISVALUED CODES-

(i) IN GENERAL- The Secretary shall--
Starts at K and still skips around. What is the things going on before that?

SEC. 1141. - Federal Government regulates rental and purchase of power driven wheelchairs

H.R. 3200 STATES:

PART 3--OTHER PROVISIONS

SEC. 1141. RENTAL AND PURCHASE OF POWER-DRIVEN WHEELCHAIRS.

(a) In General- Section 1834(a)(7)(A)(iii) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395m(a)(7)(A)(iii)) is amended--

(1) in the heading, by inserting `CERTAIN COMPLEX REHABILITATIVE' after `OPTION FOR'; and

(2) by striking `power-driven wheelchair' and inserting `complex rehabilitative power-driven wheelchair recognized by the Secretary as classified within group 3 or higher'.

(b) Effective Date- The amendments made by subsection (a) shall take effect on January 1, 2011, and shall apply to power-driven wheelchairs furnished on or after such date. Such amendments shall not apply to contracts entered into under section 1847 of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395w-3) pursuant to a bid submitted under such section before October 1, 2010, under subsection (a)(1)(B)(i)(I) of such section.
And what exactely is classified as group 3 or higher?

SEC. 1145. – Cancer patients – welcome to rationing! You may not get that 'specilized' cancer treatment center as an option.

H.R. 3200 STATES:

SEC. 1145. TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS.

Section 1833(t) of the Social Security Act (42 U.S.C. 1395l(t)) is amended by adding at the end the following new paragraph:

(1:cool: AUTHORIZATION OF ADJUSTMENT FOR CANCER HOSPITALS-

(A) STUDY- The Secretary shall conduct a study to determine if, under the system under this subsection, costs incurred by hospitals described in section 1886(d)(1)(B)(v) with respect to ambulatory payment classification groups exceed those costs incurred by other hospitals furnishing services under this subsection (as determined appropriate by the Secretary).

(B) AUTHORIZATION OF ADJUSTMENT- Insofar as the Secretary determines under subparagraph (A) that costs incurred by hospitals described in section 1886(d)(1)(B)(v) exceed those costs incurred by other hospitals furnishing services under this subsection, the Secretary shall provide for an appropriate adjustment under paragraph (2)(E) to reflect those higher costs effective for services furnished on or after January 1, 2011.'.

OH NO!!!! Rationalizing patients cancer treatment, through providing 'appropriate adjustment's if they are having to pay more for ambulance rides! Those Bastards!




You know what I am done. I think that if you read this you will see that the ideas highlighted at the top of each quote is absolutely horseshit. Think for yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


If you chose not to trust people that we elect, so be it, but don't toss your trust into the fucking idiots that are gaining from peoples stupidity.
 

CrackerJax

New Member
Just point to a program run by the govt. which is remotely efficient.....think about it.

There is absolutely no indication the American ppl will be better off with Nationalized health care. The deceptions alone so far should sound off the alarms in your head.
 

bgmike8

Well-Known Member
the question is why the hell do these jackasses need this law to begin with? this is socialism. the federal govt. should not be involved. capitalism is what made this the best healthcare system in the world. poor people are treated and taken care of here. look at all the little niglets born with welfare paying the bill. if you need help you can go to your welfare office. it has a different name some places and may even be multiple agencies. you can get a medical card or food stamps or help with your light bill.

this is just more of liberal people thiinking they can fix everything with socialism. im sure many of them mean well but it just doesnt work well in practice.
 

TheBrutalTruth

Well-Known Member
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/20/the-future-of-nasa-once-again-president-obama-says-nothing/?ref=space

The more Obama opens his mouth the more I am convinced that he is an imbecile.

Here he is throwing away the future promise of humanity, and a new frontier. NASA is a great customer of college graduates, if we ignore the needs of space, we will find that we have lots of college graduates and no jobs for them.

Funding NASA is more important than funding education, or funding ill-planned and ill-thought out health-care reform.

We're getting change, but not for the better.

We're seeing stagnation, and retreat from science.

We are seeing cowardice and hesitation in fields that require courage and bold strides.
 

triconomics

Active Member
http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/20/the-future-of-nasa-once-again-president-obama-says-nothing/?ref=space

The more Obama opens his mouth the more I am convinced that he is an imbecile.

Here he is throwing away the future promise of humanity, and a new frontier. NASA is a great customer of college graduates, if we ignore the needs of space, we will find that we have lots of college graduates and no jobs for them.

Funding NASA is more important than funding education, or funding ill-planned and ill-thought out health-care reform.

We're getting change, but not for the better.

We're seeing stagnation, and retreat from science.

We are seeing cowardice and hesitation in fields that require courage and bold strides.
And the only people who thought it wouldn't be this way are the Obama voters. But most of them voted for him to do what he is doing.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
You guys crack me up. You try to use that bill to make people think that your right and it is so corrupt. Then when it systematically gets destroyed, you ignore the information with

Just point to a program run by the govt. which is remotely efficient.....think about it.

There is absolutely no indication the American ppl will be better off with Nationalized health care. The deceptions alone so far should sound off the alarms in your head.
Which is just as stupid as the comments you/blogger made about that bill, complete distortion and out right untruth. There is no national healthcare, period. There is a national insurance program that they are going to try to get through.

But again you want to admit you were dead wrong for drinking the koolaid of who ever tricked you into believing that crap you posted?

the question is why the hell do these jackasses need this law to begin with? this is socialism. the federal govt. should not be involved. capitalism is what made this the best healthcare system in the world. poor people are treated and taken care of here. look at all the little niglets born with welfare paying the bill. if you need help you can go to your welfare office. it has a different name some places and may even be multiple agencies. you can get a medical card or food stamps or help with your light bill.

this is just more of liberal people thiinking they can fix everything with socialism. im sure many of them mean well but it just doesnt work well in practice.
So you start off by saying a healthcare insurance program that is purely up to you if you want it or not is socialism (ps it is looking like it may not even be set up by the government anymore, but by the current insurance companies), using words you don't really even understand (liberal, socialism) if your using them in this way.

And then prove that your a racist by using "niglet'. So are you just mad that a non white man is your president?

The more Obama opens his mouth the more I am convinced that he is an imbecile.

Here he is throwing away the future promise of humanity, and a new frontier. NASA is a great customer of college graduates, if we ignore the needs of space, we will find that we have lots of college graduates and no jobs for them.

Funding NASA is more important than funding education, or funding ill-planned and ill-thought out health-care reform.

We're getting change, but not for the better.

We're seeing stagnation, and retreat from science.

We are seeing cowardice and hesitation in fields that require courage and bold strides.
At least you changed tactics tbt. Lets move away from the joke of an arguement about the insurance bill and move to NASA. While I agree with NASA being very important and a beacon for science. I would argue that if we are not able to fix our education system the science in America would be more hurt.

And he did not say NASA is going to be cut. Infact he said nothing about NASA other than good things, read his full comments.

Lets face it everything that you have been worried about so far has been bullshit.

That insurance bill is not socialism, he did not nationalize the auto industry to take it over, he did not do any of the nutbag theories that have been spouted.

Just admit it, tke a zanax and chill out already.
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
The govt. has a 60% share of GM. The President basically fired the CEO Wagner. That's not taking over?
Yeah that is a good example. They did basically fire him, put the company in bankruptcy which is was heading for anyway (but allowed the workers to keep their jobs about 6 months extra through the bailout), saved hundreds of thousands of jobs inside and outside the company, after the bankruptcy they have backed off and put it back in the hands of the CEO and investors.

They very much treated it like a bankruptcy of a bank (been going on for a long time now new phenom) come in take it over sell it to a company that will keep it open, step away.

This way the economy that depends on it can not just collapse.

But that being said do we really need the big three? That is debatable. I would have liked to seen GM get turned into a totally different type of manufacturer, say solar panels that they could mass produce improve the technology and corner a new emerging world market, but that is just me.
 

Mindmelted

Well-Known Member
Solar panels are off being cost efficient.
Just to pay a $200 a month utility bill you would have to spend around $60,000 for panels.
 
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