Northern Iraq falls to Al Qaeda, $400 million looted from central bank.

londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
Does what he did in 05 make the statement that he sold all his stock before 2000 false in your eyes? Because you know the difference between options and stocks, you said so.

A better way to ask is; Did Cheney still own Haliburton stock in 2001 as you understand?
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Could have sworn you were staying out of it.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
Cheny sold all his stock before he took office, so your statement shows that it is YOU, not me that doesn't belong in the politics section. I said make sure you knew what you were talking about before you responded, but, no, you just couldn't resist shooting your mouth off when you have no clue. Once again, you spout some stupid, false allegation because you want to believe it, not because there any truth in it. So you're either gullible, or a liar. I suspect both. "Now please leave until you are better informed about world politics."
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No Cheney still had stock options in which he exercised and sold in 2005
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
While ISIS slaughtered people by the thousands, Obama decided to take a nap. While our ambassador was murdered, Obama decided to take a nap. I must be Presidential material, because I, too, have decided to take a nap.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
if it were any more of a straightforward mundane fact, kynes would be finding a way to call it marxist and desert dude would be calling it propaganda.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
Red1966 said:
Stock OPTIONS.
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stock options means he has the right to buy stocks at a set price sometime in the future.

he has just as much incentive to increase the company's stock price with Options as he does with stocks he might actually own, he just doesnt have the tax liability with the options, yet.

it's a difference without a distinction.

he should have divested himself of all business interests and started a blind trust.

otherwise you have the appearance of impropriety.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
if it were any more of a straightforward mundane fact, kynes would be finding a way to call it marxist and desert dude would be calling it propaganda.
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more specious assertions
stock ownership, stock options and pretty much EVERYTHING involved in this argument is Capitalist in nature.

you just demonstrated you have no fucking clue what socialism is, or what i was talking about.

nice work poindexter.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
When you have stock options you have the option to buy or sell stock at a set price before a set expiration date.
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Some people ARE stuck on stupid, you happen to be one of them.

If you have a corporate stock option, you can ONLY buy the stock of the corporation you are working for, you CANNOT SELL SHIT. There is no option to sell ,ONLY buy. where do you find your info on this stuff? Bucky? Bucky wouldn't know a hedge from a call from a long position with margin.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Some people ARE stuck on stupid, you happen to be one of them.

If you have a corporate stock option, you can ONLY buy the stock of the corporation you are working for, you CANNOT SELL SHIT. There is no option to sell ,ONLY buy. where do you find your info on this stuff? Bucky? Bucky wouldn't know a hedge from a call from a long position with margin.
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That was already cleared up. His option was considered a "call option", in which he bought and sold stock in 2005. A "put" option is when you sell. I already admitted that being it was ESO it had to be a call option...either way he had stock at some point AFTER he was VP.
 
Dr Kynes

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Some people ARE stuck on stupid, you happen to be one of them.

If you have a corporate stock option, you can ONLY buy the stock of the corporation you are working for, you CANNOT SELL SHIT. There is no option to sell ,ONLY buy. where do you find your info on this stuff? Bucky? Bucky wouldn't know a hedge from a call from a long position with margin.
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you CAN however, exercise your option and then immediately sell those stocks at the current market price.

adding a buying step does not invalidate the option to sell.

and some stock options are negotiable, you can sell the OPTION without ever redeeming it.

i dunno if cheneys were negotiable or not, but the end result is the same.

engage stock option, manipulate events to improve stock price, exercise option, acquire stock at set lower price, sell newly acquired stocks at market price, Profit.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
That was already cleared up. His option was considered a "call option", in which he bought and sold stock in 2005. A "put" option is when you sell. I already admitted that being it was ESO it had to be a call option...either way he had stock at some point AFTER he was VP.
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Jesus H christ London. no, no ,no.

You sell with a put and you sell with a call, you don't make any money unless you sell something to someone, those stocks can't be traded for goods like FRN's can.

Corporate stock options are LIKE A CALL OPTION. a call option is when you have the RIGHT TO BUY, but not the obligation. In other words, you CAN buy them at whatever price you had contracted, but you don't have to buy them.

Lets say the price of the stock goes to almost zero. are you then going to exercise your option to buy at a much higher price? No, not unless you like to lose large sums of money you aren't, what you will do is just let the option expire instead and only lose what the option cost and not the underlying derivative.

A corporate stock option works the same way, if you have an option to buy 30,000 shares at a price of $20 and the price of the shares falls to $1 on expiration date, are you going to exercise that option? If you were smart you hedged your option with a opposite option called a put. Now with a put you will have made the money you lost on the call, making it safe to assume you can't lose much, i.e you have "hedged" your bets.

I am really trying to simplify this, its not that complicated anyway, but most people don't understand that these are CONTRACTS, not stocks themselves and unless they are exercised, they are worthless.

A call option is the right to purchase a stock for a predetermined price, a Put option is the right to sell at a predetermined price. A call is NOT a purchase, it is a speculation that the future price will be higher than it is today. A PUT is NOT a sale, it is a speculation that the future price will be lower than it is today.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
Jesus H christ London. no, no ,no.

You sell with a put and you sell with a call, you don't make any money unless you sell something to someone, those stocks can't be traded for goods like FRN's can.

Corporate stock options are LIKE A CALL OPTION. a call option is when you have the RIGHT TO BUY, but not the obligation. In other words, you CAN buy them at whatever price you had contracted, but you don't have to buy them.

Lets say the price of the stock goes to almost zero. are you then going to exercise your option to buy at a much higher price? No, not unless you like to lose large sums of money you aren't, what you will do is just let the option expire instead and only lose what the option cost and not the underlying derivative.

A corporate stock option works the same way, if you have an option to buy 30,000 shares at a price of $20 and the price of the shares falls to $1 on expiration date, are you going to exercise that option? If you were smart you hedged your option with a opposite option called a put. Now with a put you will have made the money you lost on the call, making it safe to assume you can't lose much, i.e you have "hedged" your bets.

I am really trying to simplify this, its not that complicated anyway, but most people don't understand that these are CONTRACTS, not stocks themselves and unless they are exercised, they are worthless.

A call option is the right to purchase a stock for a predetermined price, a Put option is the right to sell at a predetermined price. A call is NOT a purchase, it is a speculation that the future price will be higher than it is today. A PUT is NOT a sale, it is a speculation that the future price will be lower than it is today.
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dude I already said this
londonfog said:
That was already cleared up. His option was considered a "call option", in which he bought and sold stock in 2005. A "put" option is when you sell. I already admitted that being it was ESO it had to be a call option...either way he had stock at some point AFTER he was VP.
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after his buy he turned around and sold.
 
N

NoDrama

Well-Known Member
FWIW Cheney certainly made sure that Halliburton and its subsidiaries got lucrative government contracts, you bet he slimed his way through the award process to make sure his options would be worth something. Should he be in prison? yep. will he go to prison? No, you all know that government officials cannot be held accountable. That was one of the first laws they voted on.
 
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NoDrama

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
after his buy he turned around and sold.
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That's something else entirely, has NOTHING to do with the option. A call option is nothing more than a contract that says " You can buy such and such stock for X amount of money in such and such quantity by this date.
I let options expire all the time, especially playing with Iron condors where it is inherently hedged and you make all your money on the margin. Rinse and repeat except on Tuesdays, On Tuesdays you go all in.

When the wheels come off this runaway BTFATH, you can bet there are going to be some dear god shorts going in on my side.
 
londonfog

londonfog

Well-Known Member
NoDrama said:
That's something else entirely, has NOTHING to do with the option. A call option is nothing more than a contract that says " You can buy such and such stock for X amount of money in such and such quantity by this date.
I let options expire all the time, especially playing with Iron condors where it is inherently hedged and you make all your money on the margin. Rinse and repeat except on Tuesdays, On Tuesdays you go all in.

When the wheels come off this runaway BTFATH, you can bet there are going to be some dear god shorts going in on my side.
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Guy... Cheney had stock options( call option ) He exercise his call option in 2005 turned around and sold making a nice little profit.
 
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