my 24/0 vs 16/8 comparison

Sir72 said:

plants need a night time to use the stored energy, grow their roots and cool off

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So plants only grow roots at dark period and can't use the stored energy under 24 hours of light?! Also can you explain a little more about "cooling off"?

---- This is a quote by Ed Rosenthal:

"One way in which plants are categorized is by the way they gather and handle carbon dioxide. Cannabis is a C3 plant. It uses the CO2 it gathers during the light period, when it is photosynthesizing. Plants designated C4 also gather CO2 during the dark period for use during the light period. Many C3 plants, including cannabis, do not need a rest period. They continue to photosynthesize as long as they are receiving light.

The plant’s photosynthetic rate determines its growth rate because the sugars are used by the plant to build tissue and for energy. Cannabis under continuous light will grow 33% faster than the same plants on an 18-6 light regime."

And this is a quote by Ryan Riley from his book Growing Elite Marijuana, page 70:

"One heavily debated issue among growers is whether the dark period is needed during vegetative growth. There are various mythical claims that a darkness period is needed, but there is absolutely no strong evidence to support this. Experienced weed growers agree that extremely healthy and potent marijuana is grown under 24 hours of vegetative light."

Hessam said:

And this is a quote by Ryan Riley from his book Growing Elite Marijuana, page 70:

"One heavily debated issue among growers is whether the dark period is needed during vegetative growth. There are various mythical claims that a darkness period is needed, but there is absolutely no strong evidence to support this. Experienced weed growers agree that extremely healthy and potent marijuana is grown under 24 hours of vegetative light."

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and this is why I'm conducting the comparison as oppose to quoting some mythical claim from a half stoned hippy...I wanted to conduct this experiment to prove to myself and only myself if 24/0 has value or not....everyone else can make their own judgement call

ISK said:

I wanted to conduct this experiment to prove to myself and only myself if 24/0 has value or not....everyone else can make their own judgement call

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Your experiment is valuable scientifically only if it's done under exact same circumstances, with the same genetics and the same phenotypes, thus cuttings are way better choices for this purpose than seeds IMO (especially if it's from a hermie plant!). Each seed has its own characteristics and grows differently.

ISK said:

as oppose to quoting some mythical claim from a half stoned hippy

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It's honestly very sad when you people behave like this! You can't really lift yourself up by bringing others down or calling them words! Sorry, but I think you're more biased than being able to prove anything, even to yourself.

Hessam said:

So plants only grow roots at dark period and can't use the stored energy under 24 hours of light?! Also can you explain a little more about "cooling off"?

---- This is a quote by Ed Rosenthal:

"One way in which plants are categorized is by the way they gather and handle carbon dioxide. Cannabis is a C3 plant. It uses the CO2 it gathers during the light period, when it is photosynthesizing. Plants designated C4 also gather CO2 during the dark period for use during the light period. Many C3 plants, including cannabis, do not need a rest period. They continue to photosynthesize as long as they are receiving light.

The plant’s photosynthetic rate determines its growth rate because the sugars are used by the plant to build tissue and for energy. Cannabis under continuous light will grow 33% faster than the same plants on an 18-6 light regime."

Click to expand...

Hessam said:

And this is a quote by Ryan Riley from his book Growing Elite Marijuana, page 70:

"One heavily debated issue among growers is whether the dark period is needed during vegetative growth. There are various mythical claims that a darkness period is needed, but there is absolutely no strong evidence to support this. Experienced weed growers agree that extremely healthy and potent marijuana is grown under 24 hours of vegetative light."

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Google up "Light saturation point in C3 Plants" and do some reading........This is one basis for the idea of some type of lights out period......BTW, Cannabis does express this "saturation point". The idea of the use of Co2 IS to recover the lost 33% during a "normal" lighting period!
So then. By running an 18/6 "daytime" light period you "save" on your electrical bill and run Co2 recovering the 33% growth lost to the cellular peptide change from the saturation point. Otherwise - go ahead and run the 24/0 and pay for those extra 6 hrs of light by increasing your electrical bill by - 33% on every lighting fixture used for 24/0!

Basically this is a "you chose" issue. To be effective in testing the light intensity needs to be high - around sun strong per sqft. You should be running that anyway!!!

Hessam said:

Your experiment is valuable scientifically only if it's done under exact same circumstances, with the same genetics and the same phenotypes, thus cuttings are way better choices for this purpose than seeds IMO (especially if it's from a hermie plant!). Each seed has its own characteristics and grows differently.

It's honestly very sad when you people behave like this! You can't really lift yourself up by bringing others down or calling them words! Sorry, but I think you're more biased than being able to prove anything, even to yourself.

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#1: Actually the seeds would be far closer then you suggest but, cuttings would still be a better choice! The problem I see is environmental. You would need to have every aspect as close to each other as possible......The main ones being Temp, RH, airflow and distance's from the flow source. Along with water/feeding times and closely meter the amounts.....Everything has to be as close to equal as possible......Environments that are separate rooms are difficult to match. NOT impossible to get satisfactory results.....Just kinda hard. Environments play a major role in plant development!

#2: This is Roll It Up! Get used to it!

Hessam said:

Your experiment is valuable scientifically only if it's done under exact same circumstances, with the same genetics and the same phenotypes, thus cuttings are way better choices for this purpose than seeds IMO (especially if it's from a hermie plant!). Each seed has its own characteristics and grows differently.


It's honestly very sad when you people behave like this! You can't really lift yourself up by bringing others down or calling them words! Sorry, but I think you're more biased than being able to prove anything, even to yourself.

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I guess you are just too stupid to understand that I'm not conducting a scientific experiment, as stated in the opening post that I have limited resources.

I really don't give a fuck what you and your dip shit buddy think...I'm doing this for my own interest and if you think you can conduct a better experiment than knock your boots off, but don't criticize me for my efforts...other words piss off and go troll some one else

I never understood this debate its obvious to me you get more growth {positive growth not stretching growth} running 24/0. You know why most people have to tie up their branches in flowering it's not because their buds are too heavy it's because their stems didn't get strong enough because they were too busy stretching during the lights out time. On the other hand if I was running a commercial operation then the benefits wouldn't outweigh the costs of electricity, but in a personal grow it's definitely worth it.

ISK said:

I guess you are just too stupid to understand that I'm not conducting a scientific experiment, as stated in the opening post that I have limited resources.
I really don't give a fuck what you and your dip shit buddy think...I'm doing this for my own interest and if you think you can conduct a better experiment than knock your boots off, but don't criticize me for my efforts...other words piss off and go troll some one else

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Exactly what I was expecting as an answer.

Don't sweat hombre! I didn't mean to criticize you in any way and I apologize if it seemed that way. I just think that experiments like this can't be done in common indoor setups. Because it requires very accurate monitoring which can cost a lot to pull off.

Enigmatic Ways said:

I never understood this debate its obvious to me you get more growth {positive growth not stretching growth} running 24/0. You know why most people have to tie up their branches in flowering it's not because their buds are too heavy it's because their stems didn't get strong enough because they were too busy stretching during the lights out time. On the other hand if I was running a commercial operation then the benefits wouldn't outweigh the costs of electricity, but in a personal grow it's definitely worth it.

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that's your opinion, good for you.....I'm not picking sides....I was conducting this comparison as honestly and fairly as I can with no predetermination.

It seems when ever anyone does a comparison or experiment, the peanut gallery perks up with their 2 cents worth, proclaiming their preconceived beliefs as gospel truth. You would think the trolls would at least wait until some results were available before chirping off like a trained parrot

BTW: I just ended grow as I was not happy with either of the room's results....will re-start another trial in a while

Hessam said:

Exactly what I was expecting as an answer.

Don't sweat hombre! I didn't mean to criticize you in any way and I apologize if it seemed that way. I just think that experiments like this can't be done in common indoor setups. Because it requires very accurate monitoring which can cost a lot to pull off.

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I don't have a million dollars to set up a professional university style experiment.....so I'm doing the best I can do with my limited resources.

People are jumping to conclusions and spewing their beliefs before any results are even apparent.....why the fuck do I even bother posting

I tend to just stick with the normal light scheme of veg 18/6 and flower 12/ 12 plain n simple 24 hr for clones until rooted and so on
when running power closer to what the sun puts down per sq foot after 18 hrs plants are begging for cool down time so again its hard to really test when someone is using low power in both tests will get a false true answer to what they see
but in reality run power @ 120 watts per Sq foot and in 24 hrs look at plants you be wishing you for the dark period
but like anything else growing indoor we add fans , AC what ever needed to mimic mother nature or outside ??? and i come to the point where on earth is it 24 hrs of light oh i know The poles and not much grows out there
But in all honesty nothing beats 18 6 for veg plant stretch is a important process in plant growth other wise it wouldnt do it
sure under 24 hr lighting you get tigher internodes a more compact plant but who says you cannot do it under 18 hr of lighting ?? "_ " i know i can here my bonzai 's

I think you should compare with 18/6 for obvious logical reasons. Which trumps "feelings" about a larger contrast, no logic there unless you stil use a 18/6 control group.

I do think it's best to test with plants from seed. Maturing faster is ime one of the main advantages of 24/0, which you won't experience with mature clones. Testing with such a small sample group skews the results whether you use clones or seeds.

Hessam said:

And this is a quote by Ryan Riley from his book Growing Elite Marijuana, page 70:

"One heavily debated issue among growers is whether the dark period is needed during vegetative growth. There are various mythical claims that a darkness period is needed, but there is absolutely no strong evidence to support this. Experienced weed growers agree that extremely healthy and potent marijuana is grown under 24 hours of vegetative light."

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While I agree with the preference for 24/0 that underlined part is an Appeal to false authority... and blatantly incorrect. Plenty of experienced growers know shit and agree on barely anything. Lots of extreme healthy and potent mj being vegged with 18/6, and lots of crap being grown under 24hrs. He's basically saying you are a noob and grow swhag if you veg under 18/6... The title, his choice of words, the lack of logic... It makes the quote from Ryan Riley itself an appeal to false authority.

Sativied said:

I think you should compare with 18/6 for obvious logical reasons. Which trumps "feelings" about a larger contrast, no logic there unless you stil use a 18/6 control group.

Testing with such a small sample group skews the results whether you use clones or seeds.

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Not that I'm disputing you, but I really don't know of any obvious logical reasons to use 18/6 over 16/8.

My "feelings" was it is the largest acceptable spread, as I do know people that use 16/8 on a normal basis

As for numbers....yeah I would love to have 50 in each group but I just can't pull that off

Sativied said:

I think you should compare with 18/6 for obvious logical reasons. Which trumps "feelings" about a larger contrast, no logic there unless you stil use a 18/6 control group.

I do think it's best to test with plants from seed. Maturing faster is ime one of the main advantages of 24/0, which you won't experience with mature clones. Testing with such a small sample group skews the results whether you use clones or seeds.


While I agree with the preference for 24/0 that underlined part is an Appeal to false authority... and blatantly incorrect. Plenty of experienced growers know shit and agree on barely anything. Lots of extreme healthy and potent mj being vegged with 18/6, and lots of crap being grown under 24hrs. He's basically saying you are a noob and grow swhag if you veg under 18/6... The title, his choice of words, the lack of logic... It makes the quote from Ryan Riley itself an appeal to false authority.

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Seeds - GOOD POINT!

agreed

Enigmatic Ways said:

I never understood this debate its obvious to me you get more growth {positive growth not stretching growth} running 24/0. You know why most people have to tie up their branches in flowering it's not because their buds are too heavy it's because their stems didn't get strong enough because they were too busy stretching during the lights out time. On the other hand if I was running a commercial operation then the benefits wouldn't outweigh the costs of electricity, but in a personal grow it's definitely worth it.

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I disagree on the stretch part of your theory. Plenty of ways to keep the stretch to a bare min on 18/6 lighting! I do it all the time!
Strains run can play into your theory to a point....
The stretch being too much or even making a big dif between the two only shows that more can be learned.

I feel that when I apply close care and work to prevent - I can manage "stretch". I would be more interested in the time factor as low and lush is pretty easy.

Sativied said:

I think you should compare with 18/6 for obvious logical reasons. Which trumps "feelings" about a larger contrast, no logic there unless you stil use a 18/6 control group.

I do think it's best to test with plants from seed. Maturing faster is ime one of the main advantages of 24/0, which you won't experience with mature clones. Testing with such a small sample group skews the results whether you use clones or seeds.


While I agree with the preference for 24/0 that underlined part is an Appeal to false authority... and blatantly incorrect. Plenty of experienced growers know shit and agree on barely anything. Lots of extreme healthy and potent mj being vegged with 18/6, and lots of crap being grown under 24hrs. He's basically saying you are a noob and grow swhag if you veg under 18/6... The title, his choice of words, the lack of logic... It makes the quote from Ryan Riley itself an appeal to false authority.

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You think a plant grown under 24 hr light will mature faster then a plant on 18 6 same You can't really "force" maturation in any plant. It will mature when it's ready to mature, in its own time. The best you can do is give it the ideal conditions to mature. Think of how they mature in the wild. They're definitely not subjected to extended light hrs or dark hrs . i Can say my plant reached full maturity when my Calyxes are swollen

I run 20 hours on for veg, so What now?LOL

2ANONYMOUS said:

You think a plant grown under 24 hr light will mature faster then a plant on 18 6 same You can't really "force" maturation in any plant. It will mature when it's ready to mature, in its own time. The best you can do is give it the ideal conditions to mature. Think of how they mature in the wild. They're definitely not subjected to extended light hrs or dark hrs . i Can say my plant reached full maturity when my Calyxes are swollen

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https://www.rollitup.org/t/24-0-or-20-4-for-seedlings.890655/page-3#post-12111349 See last part...

As for the underlined part: exactly. Which is 24/0 light ime.

As for "think how they mature in the wild"... No thank you. I rather test and observe how they mature indoors under artificial light schedules than make an appeal to nature.

I can tell from your post you have a few gaps in your knowledge which I won't bother trying to fill in, but I will say I technically agree with that last comment

Sativied said:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/24-0-or-20-4-for-seedlings.890655/page-3#post-12111349 See last part...

As for the underlined part: exactly. Which is 24/0 light ime.

As for "think how they mature in the wild"... No thank you. I rather test and observe how they mature indoors under artificial light schedules than make an appeal to nature.

I can tell from your post you have a few gaps in your knowledge which I won't bother trying to fill in, but I will say I technically agree with that last comment

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No again that is your theory and believing meat heads like Ed lol who in my books is a over grown BUM but from having hands on experience in the horticulture field Family own botanic garden and Farm trust me i probably touch more plants and soil in one year then most will touch in a life time i have grown thousands of MJ plants at once done pretty much every light scheme none to man and assure you 24 hr lighting is nothing special nothing at all
TBH Enviroment is 1000 times more important then light scheme them are facts just in a process of making 4 more green houses plans are one you know it fill them up by the end of this month will have cloned over 300,000 varieties of plants annuals and pren for up coming summer
trust me already ordered another B train of soil 2 of 4 for this year alone Again for some its a hobby for others its a lively hood
Also coming into calving season so Yup trying to get a head start before march thanks

Sativied said:

As for "think how they mature in the wild"... No thank you. I rather test and observe how they mature indoors under artificial light schedules than make an appeal to nature.

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But I think the biggest problem here is that we are trying to apply what happens in nature to indoor environment. We think plants need a dark period to rest and 24 hours of light per day is unnatural, because we are trying to compare indoors with outdoors, which is absolutely WRONG! We can't compare 18 hours of HID/LED/CFL light with 18 hours of SUNLIGHT or even 6 hours of dark period indoors with 6 hours of NIGHT. Plants KNOW the difference between indoors and outdoors, just like how you know the difference between your mother and the woman next door, and no matter what we do, we can't fool them!

Sativied said:

I do think it's best to test with plants from seed. Maturing faster is ime one of the main advantages of 24/0, which you won't experience with mature clones.

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Exactly! Looks like it's just getting harder and harder.

Thanks for the input mate.