Looking to boost yield and moving away from lucas formula.

OneHitDone said:

Have you ran the KIND Trio? Review?

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Yes I have, and still do in one of the bloom rooms.

I found it works great. I suggest you start at the given charting. You will find that for some plants in bloom. After the stretch you will reduce the "Base" by 25% or suffer high N in some strains.
Heavy feeding strains will love the charted amounts!
For some strains like Gorilla Glue's, Bruce Banner and other Mag hogs. You will need to add a Mag source. Mostly in veg..I use my Mag sulfate formula in bloom so I don't see that issue but, did see it develop in veg in Mag hungry strains.
Had no real Ca problems as it contains Ca. That works out great for hydro runs but, and I do mean "but", You should still hit RO with a Ca/Mag to stabilize the pH - Before adding nutes.

The same is true for soil growers. You do not "need" a Ca/Mag for RO pre-conditioning. You shouldn't have to set the solution pH UNLESS the pH of the feed solution is out side 6.5 by over 1+ point of pH value - low is worse then high...

NO boosters used.....Simple Mag Sulfate and a K sulfate at low delivery amounts are supplemented in my synthetic run plants...

In soil run plants. The soil is home built and amended for certain micro nutrient levels. This micro nute adjusting is a more advanced grower practice. That should be covered in a different thread, and has been to a point, by several here.

Dr. Who said:

NO boosters used.....Simple Mag Sulfate and a K sulfate at low delivery amounts are supplemented in my synthetic run plants...

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Dr Who...I'm a lucas grower as well (via Maxibloom)...but open to change. Curious to why no extra P in this regimen.
JD

Did you have a bad luck thing with the lucas formula? I am running it start to finish because i ran out of grow and i had 2 full quarts of bloom and micro. My autopots will love it. Just wondering about why you want to change except to get more

OneHitDone said:

Have you ran the KIND Trio? Review?

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I ran the Lucas Formula for years and loved it. After a while I started wondering about the new options, and started Botanicare Kind. Can’t say enough about it. Using drip clean I have t had any clogs and my plants love it. It is easy to mix and I haven’t seen any burn issues. I also use the other additives like sweet and hydroplex and overall my flavors and yield has increased.

Auto blue chopped 72 days from Seed, anyone can guess how the dry wet it is?

@Dr. Who
I think I will give KIND a go once I run out of GH nutes then. Any reason why you suggest KIND over their other ranges?

Garythegoose said:

@Dr. Who
I think I will give KIND a go once I run out of GH nutes then. Any reason why you suggest KIND over their other ranges?

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I saw friends and co-op members using it....Thought it was odd that so many started it so near each other. Then looked at results...
I was impressed with the easy peasy 3 part AND how it was easy to adjust to needs and experience...

I see some bang'in results. Some folks do it better then others but, the ease in making adjustments with just using 2 things at one time...Priceless.

I mean steller results too!

JohnDee said:

Dr Who...I'm a lucas grower as well (via Maxibloom)...but open to change. Curious to why no extra P in this regimen.
JD

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High P simply makes your plants finish too early!

I NEVER like "high P".. Never use a booster....Avoid P religiously!

High P makes the plant yellow out from the bottom up or from the core out and up... NOT GOOD!
Green to just about the end if not to the end. Some strains naturally loose some green and gain other coloring but, yellow is not "good."

I tried the Lucas...Years and years ago....Works but everyone CAN do better. "I" never settled for what it does..

There is an advanced way to deliver nutrient ratio's the plant likes..
Flip, I like to have a little bit extra N.....The plant uses that in the stretch
After the stretch, drop the N down to about 3-4.
Still at 6&6 for P&K
Mag sulfate at 10 ml per
6% K sulfate at 7.5 to 10 ml per (gallon of feed)
As the bulk begins (buds are fully formed and fully developed. This is like the last 3-4 weeks. Sometimes as little as 2 weeks)
Drop the K sulfate, and the Mag sulfate.
Reduce the N

Run them out!

Variation: If the plant strain is going long (I run longer then many anyway - That IS a RULE of mine..better quality. Feel that most don't truly understand what "done" is.)
This is all for synthetic use

In my organic water only stuff..
The soil is built to the type of growth patterns the strain has. I have Veg soil and re pot/up pot to bloom soil at 10 days before the flip. I have 2 veg soils and 3 bloom soils.

Call me fussy but, I like it..

churchhaze said:

The guy asked about how he can improve upon Lucas formula,. I'm not sure why so many people are trying to stop him.

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The reason for that is simple: he's already using a very good, quality product. There is no nutrient regimen on earth that's going to significantly improve his yields by simply switching to it. That is a matter of more quality lighting than anything else.

You could have God the almighty grown them himself and without more light you're simply not going to see any significant increase in yields. In fact, it may turn out quite the opposite - he may have many issues using something he's not used to, and that would lend him to throwing good money (and grows) after bad.

People are simply trying to help prevent him from making a mistake. A rather large one.

Dr. Who said:

Call me fussy but, I like it..

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Dr Who,
Thanks for your detailed response. I have never heard that excess P causes early finishing. But I have been told that the plant doesn't need lots of P...so I'm going to take this info seriously and re-consider my use of pk boosters.

I also really like your organic soil protocol. Having a veg mix and a bloom mix. Makes lots of sense.
JD

TacoMac said:

The reason for that is simple: he's already using a very good, quality product. There is no nutrient regimen on earth that's going to significantly improve his yields by simply switching to it. That is a matter of more quality lighting than anything else.

You could have God the almighty grown them himself and without more light you're simply not going to see any significant increase in yields. In fact, it may turn out quite the opposite - he may have many issues using something he's not used to, and that would lend him to throwing good money (and grows) after bad.

People are simply trying to help prevent him from making a mistake. A rather large one.

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I don't see Lucas formula as a very good, quality product, I see it as a "you mean I don't have to buy all 3 bottles?" product. Lucas formula has too much P and not enough calcium and nitrate.

Besides that, you run out of 1 bottle twice as fast as the other. That's kind of annoying. An A+B solution where you use equal parts will run out evenly together. In the long run, it's not like you save money buying only micro and bloom.

If you're growing in soil, you don't need calcium or nitrate. You use lime that costs only 3 dollars a bag.

So you're wrong. Flat out.

We're talking about dwc tho

Garythegoose said:

We're talking about dwc tho

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Probably would have helped if you had:

1. Mentioned you were growing hydro.
2. Posted in the hydroponics section.

When you post in general, it's assumed you are growing in soil unless you state otherwise.

Edit to add: It's still not going to make a quantum leap of difference. Lighting is still the number one thing you can get more yield from. 315 ceramics are nice, but they are NOT a 1000 watt HPS.

I do side by side grows every time (DWC). Lucas formula usually holds it's own against anything else I try. Lucas formula is light on N. It works great on my Sativas that don't like much N. Everything else gives them the claw. My indicas need more N and they do get too yellow with Lucas formula. If you are trying to compare what is best you have to grow them side by side. I have been experimenting with Megacrop and that is pretty hot. My indicas get tip burn at .8 EC. My sativas hate it lol. I'm still liking it though except the smell in the bag. It doesn't seem to smell in the buckets though. Bottom line: Lucas formula still has it's place.

churchhaze said:

Besides that, you run out of 1 bottle twice as fast as the other. That's kind of annoying.

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Buying two bottles of pink for every one bottle of micro is confusing to you?

TacoMac said:

If you're growing in soil, you don't need calcium or nitrate. You use lime that costs only 3 dollars a bag.

So you're wrong. Flat out.

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TacoMac said:

Probably would have helped if you had:

1. Mentioned you were growing hydro.
2. Posted in the hydroponics section.

When you post in general, it's assumed you are growing in soil unless you state otherwise.

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Lucas formula isn't meant for soil.

TacoMac said:

Probably would have helped if you had:

1. Mentioned you were growing hydro.
2. Posted in the hydroponics section.

When you post in general, it's assumed you are growing in soil unless you state otherwise.

Edit to add: It's still not going to make a quantum leap of difference. Lighting is still the number one thing you can get more yield from. 315 ceramics are nice, but they are NOT a 1000 watt HPS.

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I use some lime in my mix and the cal/mag heavy feeders still get some more cal/mag and Mag/Sulphate.

Not sure why people would assume media just because its in general...

I think genetics is the biggest thing when it comes to yield and flower size, then lights.

TacoMac said:

Probably would have helped if you had:

1. Mentioned you were growing hydro.
2. Posted in the hydroponics section.

When you post in general, it's assumed you are growing in soil unless you state otherwise.

Edit to add: It's still not going to make a quantum leap of difference. Lighting is still the number one thing you can get more yield from. 315 ceramics are nice, but they are NOT a 1000 watt HPS.

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1. I mentioned that I was growing in dwc, look at my original post again.

2. What? It's a general question about nutrients, I could have posted in in the hydro section, I could have posted it in the nutrients section, I could have posted it in the grow room setup section, but I know I'll get most views and therefore better information from general. Sorry if that bothers you, but that's just how it is.

Where do you get the idea that general is exclusively soil only? There's loads of threads for all growing styles on there, hence the term 'general' (all encompassing)

And as we've seen from the discussion, there is a lot of opinion that the lucas formula is lacking and can be improved upon. As I've already said, I'm getting good yields, I'm not planning to run 1kw DE in a 4x4, just want improved nutrition.

Garythegoose said:

I'm not planning to run 1kw DE in a 4x4, just want improved nutrition.

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Hi Gary,
I'm very much in the same place as you. Wondering if I could do better on nutrients.

When I look at some of the more expensive nutes...at least some of what they include can be added as additives. That's the direction I'm leaning toward right now. I use Maxibloom to obtain a close Lucas approximation.

I'm convinced that silica is crucial and so will supplement that. I'm taking Dr Who's position quite seriously and am going to leave out the PK 13/14 that I used to use. And just let it ride...with the P already in the Maxibloom. But now I wonder if maybe there might be something I could add as an additive to swell up the buds. I'm talking hormones and such...not just P and K. So that's what I'm looking for now.
JD

Edit: straight hydro for me