long veg for mature THC?

I've posted this on another board but have gotten no experienced responses yet:

Has anyone noticed a MORE potent high from a plant they've vegged LONGER than one of it's brother's? (clone or seedling?)

I forget where I read it, but I have multiple links which seem to confirm the idea that a plant should be at least 8 weeks old (from seed) before you switch photoperiods to flowering.

The idea is that the plant has to be mature enough to produce THC at the potency it is genetically rated at. Too young = less potent THC.

Obviously, this only applies to seedlings because clones are the same age of the mother.

Can anyone else confirm this advice? With a link preferably.

Here are some of the articles which support the idea but do not state it:

D9-Tetrahydrocannabinol Content in Cannabis Plants of Greek Origin
Maria STEFANIDOU,* Sotiris ATHANASELIS, Giorgos ALEVISOPOULOS, John PAPOUTSIS, and
Antonis KOUTSELINIS
Department of Forensic Medicine and Toxicology, University of Athens, Medical School, 75, Mikras Asias str., Goudi,
Athens 115.27, Greece. Received September 30, 1999 ; accepted December 28, 1999

There are wide variations in the relative amounts of cannabinoids in cannabis plants, depending on many factors. The predominant factors are the genetic characteristics of the seedstock,17,1 the environment in which the plant is grown,19,20) the maturity, sex, the part of the plant harvested, the time elapsed between harvesting and chemical analysis, and the conditions of storage of the plant.21)

What do you think they mean by plant maturity, if not AGE?


[email protected]

The THC in the cannabis plant is produced as a defense mechanism to protect itself,and its spawn. This is the reason that THC is produced only when the plant reaches maturity.


HIT - Second perspectives on Cannabis conference - Zerin Atakn.

The hemp plant (cannabis sativa) has been cultivated as a multipurpose economic plant for thousands of years
Some are grown for their fiber content, others for their psychoactive properties
The plant is a lush, fast growing annual which can reach maturity in 60 days indoors and around 120 days outdoors
There are male and female plants and both contain psychoactive ingredients. But female flowers have a higher amount of THC (the main psychoactive ingredient).


What is meant by ‘plant maturity’ as used in these quotes, if not ‘age’? As it turns out ‘age’ is not the correct term. Because, as many sources say, ‘chronological age’ is not the deciding factor. Rather, I am going to use the term ‘light hours’ to refer to maturity of plant.

Take the next quote:


Pot Seeds Marijuana Seeds Cannabis

The potency of the marijuana plant is related to its maturity rather than Chronological age. Genetically identical 3 month and 6 month-old plants which have mature flowers have the same potency. Starting from seed, a six month old plant flowers slightly faster and fills out more than a 3 month old plant.

Here I assume they are talking about cuttings ("genetically identical"). If you let one age for 3 or 6 months, they will be the same potency. But is it possible that they are refering to the flowering stage maturity, and not plant maturity (light-hours age)?

I am interested in this because the White Widow I grew from seed was flowered at 8 weeks old. The smoke was mid to high grade. Nice mellow high that got smoother and more potent after 8 weeks curing. But all in all, I expected a greater punch from White Widow. It was a creeper too. It felt immature, like it just wasn't aged long enough. I think if I vegged the seedlings for 12 weeks instead of 8 it would improve. Or, I could keep a mother and all the clones would be very mature.

I wrote this in another forum and got dissed by an asshole who says he never heard of plant age/maturity effecting potency. (I guess the guy read and knows everything.)

I welcome all experienced growers to weigh in on this.

Well, It is true I have never heard of it before this. At least you had the brains to actually provide us with a little background info on where you are coming from.

From what I do know, most companies list the number of weeks for your variety to be "Commercially Viable," which basically means "sellable." It has been my experience that by leaving the 'fruit on the vine' for 1-2 weeks longer than is usually suggested will improve on the creation and accumulation of a diverse and varied range of different cannibinoids than you would have had at "Recommended Harvest Date." Since a quick turnaround is a good selling point, companies tend to list the fastest possible harvest. It is also an old grower rule of thumb to wait a week once you think they are ready. Similar reasoning is involved with this as well. There may be more to it than just this, but what I am talking about applies to all cannabis plants, no matter how long they are vegged for. It is possible that also using a very short vegging period could also effect this. I am going to do a relatively short veg period on an indoor harvest, but all parent plants are gonna be vegged at least all summer, so I can compare the ones I let veg all summer to the ones that had an 8 week or so veg.

I'm stoned, and running late for work, but I've had a quick gander at your post and I think you're right, there is an optimum veg time to produce better matured THC, most experienced growers seem to reckon you should veg around 2months. However this varies between Indicas and Sativas and will also vary between strains and probably between indvidual plants.
Most growers have other deciding factors which determine their veg time, grow space and time for example.
I think you may be trying to think of this as a way of growing 'super bud', but I think that if you are able to veg for as long as you want then it just takes experience and a knowledge of your particular plant to know when is the optimum time to start flowering.

marijuanajoe1982 said:

Well, It is true I have never heard of it before this. At least you had the brains to actually provide us with a little background info on where you are coming from.

From what I do know, most companies list the number of weeks for your variety to be "Commercially Viable," which basically means "sellable." It has been my experience that by leaving the 'fruit on the vine' for 1-2 weeks longer than is usually suggested will improve on the creation and accumulation of a diverse and varied range of different cannibinoids than you would have had at "Recommended Harvest Date." Since a quick turnaround is a good selling point, companies tend to list the fastest possible harvest. It is also an old grower rule of thumb to wait a week once you think they are ready. Similar reasoning is involved with this as well. There may be more to it than just this, but what I am talking about applies to all cannabis plants, no matter how long they are vegged for. It is possible that also using a very short vegging period could also effect this. I am going to do a relatively short veg period on an indoor harvest, but all parent plants are gonna be vegged at least all summer, so I can compare the ones I let veg all summer to the ones that had an 8 week or so veg.

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perfect! that's the kind of experience I'm looking for. i haven't had a chance to experiment myself with different veg times. i'm sure someone her has done it.

thanks.

ocb123 said:

I'm stoned, and running late for work, but I've had a quick gander at your post and I think you're right, there is an optimum veg time to produce better matured THC, most experienced growers seem to reckon you should veg around 2months. However this varies between Indicas and Sativas and will also vary between strains and probably between indvidual plants.
Most growers have other deciding factors which determine their veg time, grow space and time for example.
I think you may be trying to think of this as a way of growing 'super bud', but I think that if you are able to veg for as long as you want then it just takes experience and a knowledge of your particular plant to know when is the optimum time to start flowering.

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thanks for reply. i agree with everything you suggest. now if i could only find someone with first hand experience.

For first hand experienced help, try asking:
fdd2blk's Marijuana Growing Profile

I've not been on this site for that long but this fella is a very experienced grower with an excellent knowledge of the plant and growing. I need no other proof than this link showing his 100 Oz plant. Read and be slack jawed!

https://www.rollitup.org/seed-strain-reviews/80674-bigest-uk-plant-ever-64-a.html

i love all the "reasons" the plant produces THC. i've heard defense, light intensifiers, pollen collection, ................. what if the plant "just" has THC. kinda like milkweed has milk. it just does.

i've never flowered a plant straight from seed but i know i've heard of it. from what i hear it works fine.

i have seedlings with THC on them.

unless you are doing lab tests for THC levels it's all just opinion.

hope this helps.

I'm not too sure it works like this. I always thought the longer you veg the more yield you get because of the size. I don't think anyone would veg for 2 months unless its a monther and taking clones from it or you want a monster of a plant(depending on pot size of course). For me I always veg for 1 month, or wait for pre-flowers whatever comes first. almost everyone don't like to grow sativas because of the long flowering times, Some people flower as soon as it sprouts and its still excellent quality, Grapefriut is like this. people also do this for height/space factors also. But I have never heard of this "mature THC" you talk of. the only mature THC I know of is when the trichomes change from clear to white or white to amber.

You veg your plants for 2 months then depending on the strain its usually 8 to 14weeks for flowering, then 3 to 7 days for drying and then a minimum of 14 to 30 days for curing?! Thats a long fucking time man, no one is goin to fuck like that unless you have time,money and a nice spot in the middle of nowwhere. because remember, the plant will actually start to look like its got defeciencies when its overgrown its pot and if you want to keep it for 2 months i would suggest an 85 liter pot. and at least 1 foot high ceilings. Look at my X-mas tree columbian red haze for example, its at 5'11. its in a 3 gallon pot vegged for 1 month un topped. If it had grown even another inch taller I would have had to cut it beacause I have no more ceiling height for the light. The topped one with 4 main stems was 4'11. The breeder for the strain says it will grow 1.5 metres in a 7.5 litre pot with a VERY short veg time.

CannaSeur said:

I'm not too sure it works like this. I always thought the longer you veg the more yield you get because of the size. I don't think anyone would veg for 2 months unless its a monther and taking clones from it or you want a monster of a plant(depending on pot size of course). For me I always veg for 1 month, or wait for pre-flowers whatever comes first. almost everyone don't like to grow sativas because of the long flowering times, Some people flower as soon as it sprouts and its still excellent quality, Grapefriut is like this. people also do this for height/space factors also. But I have never heard of this "mature THC" you talk of. the only mature THC I know of is when the trichomes change from clear to white or white to amber.

You veg your plants for 2 months then depending on the strain its usually 8 to 14weeks for flowering, then 3 to 7 days for drying and then a minimum of 14 to 30 days for curing?! Thats a long fucking time man, no one is goin to fuck like that unless you have time,money and a nice spot in the middle of nowwhere. because remember, the plant will actually start to look like its got defeciencies when its overgrown its pot and if you want to keep it for 2 months i would suggest an 85 liter pot. and at least 1 foot high ceilings. Look at my X-mas tree columbian red haze for example, its at 5'11. its in a 3 gallon pot vegged for 1 month un topped. If it had grown even another inch taller I would have had to cut it beacause I have no more ceiling height for the light. The topped one with 4 main stems was 4'11. The breeder for the strain says it will grow 1.5 metres in a 7.5 litre pot with a VERY short veg time.

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let's step outside for a moment. vegged for 6 months.

well. i guess no one agrees with growing 'older', mature plants for more potent THC. It just doesn't have a lot of support.


if this is true, i am led to believe I will need different seeds because the WW I have from Joey Weed just aren't that potent as compared to many other strains I have smoked. so either: A) grow with different nutes or B) different seeds.

because it looks like vegging the plants for longer isn't going to increase potency. sucks.

I no longer recommend Joey Weed Seeds.

that plant i vegged for 6 months was rated at A-. not bad smoke but not kick ass either.

fdd2blk said:

that plant i vegged for 6 months was rated at A-. not bad smoke but not kick ass either.

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thanks for the reference. I give my 2 month plant an A- good smoke, mellow, non-anxiety. but a creepy high. it took about 15 minutes after you smoke a bowl to feel how high you were and realize that it was good smoke.

but WW is rated for up to 21% THC. I expected a knock-out bowl.

THC ratings are really relative. THC content depends on a lot of variables and really it depends on the grower when trying to calculate such results. But, genetics does play a big part here.

Pidgeon said:

THC ratings are really relative. THC content depends on a lot of variables and really it depends on the grower when trying to calculate such results. But, genetics does play a big part here.

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This is completely true. First, Genetics play the biggest role in anything having to do with how well a plant performs (unless you put it in a dark closet or something, then it's your fault, lol). What I'm trying to say is that great weed is 70%-80% nature, and 20%-30% nurture.

Also, Pidgeon, you are right about these measurements being relative, and honestly I am a little tired of people who think that the THC is measured by weight. THC is measured in comparison to the total amount of cannibinoids in a plant. Thats why you have to see which mother's get you highest before you start full scale cloning. Also, why would they need to use a mass spectrometer to figure out the THC by weight? lol! They would chemically extract all THC from the buds, then weigh the extracted buds in relationship to the extracted resin in order to determine it's percentage by weight. Probably alot harder to do, apparently, if they use a motha fuckin' mass spectrometer up in this bitch instead. Word.

Thanks For Everyone's Imput.

daydrops said:

Thanks For Everyone's Imput.

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pwnd

U cant spell.

I wrote this in another forum and got dissed by an asshole who says he never heard of plant age/maturity effecting potency. (I guess the guy read and knows everything.)

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^^oh and thank you for the compliment^^

I've posted this on another board but have gotten no experienced responses yet:

Has anyone noticed a MORE potent high from a plant they've vegged LONGER than one of it's brother's? (clone or seedling?)

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and even tho a female plant cant be as potent as its brother (for obvious reasons), to answer your question - I have grown clones and seedlings from the same strains and from my experience the only variable that seemed to change the potency was lighting and TLC.

but the 'peak maturity' of a plant is usually found on the seed package. its around 8 weeks flowering indoors for most indicas, and a lot longer for these friggen sativas.
but like I mentioned in the other thread I have never heard anyone say '8 weeks veg was the minimum for a cannabis plant.' and I wasnt trying to offend U over there, I just asked that ppl provided solid links and reources so we know ur not pulling this shit outta ur ass, which in this case..well..

Spittn4cash said:

But the 'peak maturity' of a plant is usually found on the seed package. its around 8 weeks flowering indoors for most indicas, and a lot longer for these friggen sativas.

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Yo Spittin'! What's wrong with a Sativa? I know it's sometimes hard when you got that deliciousness down there and it makes ya a little impatient. All you wanna do is harvest but you don't want wait 13 weeks? I've been there, bro! I say, expand your grow area, and grow some Indicas and Sativas together. If you find the right match and flower from short enough, the height difference won't even be an issue when it comes to lighting. The Indicas come in first, and then you have some knock-out stone until your Sativas finally ripen on the vine. I do like your set-up, but I can see why Sativas might be an issue, height constraints, right? Well, I'm about to try some Hawaiian Snow here after this flower cycle. Ive got a 6 foot ceiling, but the light is lower than that, so I've only got like 4 1/2 feet of plant space. Gonna LST, tie them fuckers down, train the branches into a low SCROG. This could even be done 12/12 from seed, and would be relatively natural for the Sativa, being equatorial as most are. You seemed consternated about the nature of the Sativa. Not trying to harsh ya or nothin', just tryin' to give ya some more options. *Pipe Testing In Progress*

Btw, agreed with everything else you said man

marijuanajoe1982 said:

Yo Spittin'! What's wrong with a Sativa? I know it's sometimes hard when you got that deliciousness down there and it makes ya a little impatient. All you wanna do is harvest but you don't want wait 13 weeks? I've been there, bro! I say, expand your grow area, and grow some Indicas and Sativas together. If you find the right match and flower from short enough, the height difference won't even be an issue when it comes to lighting. The Indicas come in first, and then you have some knock-out stone until your Sativas finally ripen on the vine. I do like your set-up, but I can see why Sativas might be an issue, height constraints, right? Well, I'm about to try some Hawaiian Snow here after this flower cycle. Ive got a 6 foot ceiling, but the light is lower than that, so I've only got like 4 1/2 feet of plant space. Gonna LST, tie them fuckers down, train the branches into a low SCROG. This could even be done 12/12 from seed, and would be relatively natural for the Sativa, being equatorial as most are. You seemed consternated about the nature of the Sativa. Not trying to harsh ya or nothin', just tryin' to give ya some more options. *Pipe Testing In Progress*

Btw, agreed with everything else you said man

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dont get me wrong, I love sativa's as much as the next toker, but my last plant that was indica dominant took 15 weeks to finish, 12/12 from seed. and that was just the indica! the sativa Id imagne would take much longer to grow 12/12 from seed.

I do have these strawberry cough seeds that are dominantly sativa, but I dont plan on growing them anytime soon. I still have a bit of breeding to do before I cross with strawberry cough. Im gonna cross the bubblicious and sweet purple next, both indica dominant and heavy on THC (due to genetics @ threadstarter)

one day I will be growing pure sativa's in there, I'll probable make a cross of pure haze and my "sweet purple x strawberry cough x bubblicious" cross that im working on? we'll see...

Spittn4cash said:

dont get me wrong, I love sativa's as much as the next toker, but my last plant that was indica dominant took 15 weeks to finish, 12/12 from seed. and that was just the indica! the sativa Id imagne would take much longer to grow 12/12 from seed.

I do have these strawberry cough seeds that are dominantly sativa, but I dont plan on growing them anytime soon. I still have a bit of breeding to do before I cross with strawberry cough. Im gonna cross the bubblicious and sweet purple next, both indica dominant and heavy on THC (due to genetics @ threadstarter)

one day I will be growing pure sativa's in there, I'll probable make a cross of pure haze and my "sweet purple x strawberry cough x bubblicious" cross that im working on? we'll see...

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Sounds cool bro, And that cross you've dreamt up sounds delicious! I was just giving you a little shit, anyway . I pretty much always agree with what you have to say, so I figured I might as well jab ya in the ribs. I figured you could take it. I totally empathize with you though, I have to keep my plants under about 4 and a half feet tall because of how high I can raise my light. I could make it taller relatively easy, and I might have to when I grow my Hawaiian Snow, but its not a big deal since I usually prefer an Indica 'stone' over a Sativa 'high' anyway. The only time that doesn't hold true is if I get a truly great 50/50 Hybrid of the correct Indica and the correct Sativa, that blows away all other kinds of highs, when you get the best of both worlds!

Anyway I am growing mostly indica or indica dominant on my indoor setup right now. I got some VISC Fuckin' Incredible, VISC Blackberry, and Barney's G13 Haze (2007 Cannabis Cup winner, came highly recommended by my friend who attended as a judge) The G13 Haze looks really Sativa Dominant, but it's not super tall like most other Sativas. Most G13 Hazes (I'd say about 70/30 Sativa dom, even though genetically it is a 50/50 cross of Indica/Sativa where the Sativa pheno's have obviously been inbred into dominance by the breeder) are on average about 2 or 3 inches taller than than my Blackberrys (almost 100% Indica) , which are another inch or 2 taller than the Fuckin' Incredible (also almost 100% Indica). All plants are within about 6 inches of eachother, except for this one retarded plant that is just growing really really slow. That reminds me, I gotta water tonight. I'll do that soon. Anyway, I have looked at your grow-space. It seems very well designed to me. I wish the light could moce up and down (not SUPER important, so long as you are pushing enough lumens... I just like to be able to adjust it), but other than that I wouldn't change a thing.

With my setup I'm about to start flowering my 3 varieties, I've been vegging for a little under a month and a half. Most plants are around a foot tall and really thick with close internode spacing. I will let you know how much the G13 Haze plants stretch if you are interested, because they are supposedly really short for a Sativa dominant plant. They really look Sativa, but I have one that is apparently a rare Indica dominant phenotype. It is my favorite, since almost all seem like they are either a blend of the two, or are leaning more towards the Sativa side. Anyway, Barney's G13 Haze seems like you could probably fit it into your space, so If you are interested, I suggest you give it a shot. I did head that Straberry Cough is really good too. I heard it was good for anti-anxiety, I'll bet it would go well with my Xanax .

You seem to be trying to do something similar to what I'm trying to do. Bred your own strain. That's exactly what I'm trying to do, I've already recruited some people to help "test grow" some of my stuff when I do my seed run near the end of the summer. I'm testing out Deisel ryder and Auto AK-47 x Auto Hindu Kush, to see if it's worth it. Either way I'm making shitloads of seeds with them, I want to just start spreading them around and get a few wild patches of auto's going. My grandmother has 100 acres, and I have 5, so as you can Imagine, I have always been an outdoor grower. But I'm doing an inside crop this year too because we are supposed to have a shitty summer.

Still have 6 other varieties going outside this summer, so when I take my breeders from inside and move them outside after they have showed sex, they will revert back to Veg and just grow all summer. Gives me plenty of time to clone the mothers, and will give me more selection come fall for breeding choices. with so many varieties, it would really be ALOT of different potential choices. I'm only breeding auto's to other auto's, and regular plants to regular plants. I will breed both different auto's together to make Auto AK Deisel Kush (sounds like the gnarliest auto-flowering variety ever, good blend of Indicas and Sativas in there!)

Also, and this is just a question so don't take it the wrong way... but if it takes 14 weeks from start to finish doing an indica 12/12 from seed, why not veg for one month and then flower? Thats only about 10 weeks for a short-flowering variety, and I know you would get more yeild. Have you tried that before? Or is there some other reason you prefer 12/12 from seed? Just curious. I think maybe 4 female Indicas could fit in your grow space, even if grown with the regular method. You would probably know better than I on this one though. It is, after all, your grow space and not mine. Anyway you seem like you know a little more than the average person on here, so I'm gonna keep in touch, and see what you finally decide to do. Peace! *More Pipe Testing About To Commence In... 5...4...3... Aww Fuck it "Chk Chk" "swoooooooooooosh" "Cough cough cough!!!" Fuck! "Cough cough" That shit right there is tha Ivory! I'm a ghost! Whoooooo!

Edit: Shit, I just fuckin practucally wrote a term paper! My bad... I'm high as fuck!

Spittn4cash said:

^^oh and thank you for the compliment^^

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no problem. i'm an asshole too sometimes.

Spittn4cash said:

and even tho a female plant cant be as potent as its brother (for obvious reasons), to answer your question - I have grown clones and seedlings from the same strains and from my experience the only variable that seemed to change the potency was lighting and TLC.

but the 'peak maturity' of a plant is usually found on the seed package. its around 8 weeks flowering indoors for most indicas, and a lot longer for these friggen sativas.

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thanks for sharing knowledge.

Spittn4cash said:

but like I mentioned in the other thread I have never heard anyone say '8 weeks veg was the minimum for a cannabis plant.' and I wasnt trying to offend U over there, I just asked that ppl provided solid links and reources so we know ur not pulling this shit outta ur ass, which in this case..well..

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i do not pass on bullshit. i provided you with the links you requested, and explained how i interpreted them. but, experience wins out. and several seasoned growers have weighed in.

my bad. i was wrong on this one.