LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

To add to the helpfulness of BlueB's research here's a cut-n-paste of my email and reply to Wave Point. Hyroot, was this your doing? I did cut out my email and full name for safety's sake, more from an old stalker than police worries.

PS - for those in the know about it, I'm currently doing my happy chicken dance!

Dear Cheryle,

Sorry to get back to you late.
Yes, we do have this Ultra Cola bulb. And it was developed specifically by special request.
We can get you samples of this bulb right after our factory come back from vacation. If you would like, let us know the quantity you desire, and we will get this bulb to you sometime in mid to late February.
I can quote you price based upon the quantity you are looking for.

By the way, we can also develop special spectrum at your desire.

Please let us know how we can further assist you.

Thank you.

Yu Ling

Wave Point Technology
Fax: (805) 388.9532
www.wave-point.com


From: [mailtoyahoo.com]
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 10:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: ULTRA GROWTH/Ultra Cola bulbs


I don't know of any delicate way to put this so here goes. You are making an incredibly smart business decision. The name of the bulb in your distributor section tells "us" that you know who will really be buying these bulbs, and we've been waiting awhile now for a manufacturer to realize that growers who shun HID lights will pay a premium for a PAR T5 bulb with that 660nm spike for chlorophyll A. But, I'm curious as to how you'll be able to keep them the same price as your other bulbs given that magnesium arsenate phosphor is generally more expensive than other phosphors? "We" will react VERY badly if the teaser graph on your site showing that 660nm spike is a lie. On the other hand "we" will run you dry of stock continuously if it's true, and pay a premium even. Oh, and don't forget the infrared and UV portions of the PAR spectrum! You will not be able to keep these things in stock if the graph that was up then taken down was true. I'm even so excited about it I'd also like to know if you're a publicly traded company and what exchange if you are, as I'd like to buy some stock I can see it soaring in the near future.



Also, any chance to be put on a waiting list for first dibs when they do come in? I want I want I want.



Thank you for your time, I look forward to seeing your business thrive~!



Cheryle

woot woot.


maybe, I sent them several emails stating that there is a huge untapped market for the 660nm bulbs, etc....... They only replied to me that one time so it is possible, i know several other people emailed them too.

the future's so bright, i gotta wear shades

hyroot said:

woot woot.


maybe, I sent them several emails stating that there is a huge untapped market for the 660nm bulbs, etc....... They only replied to me that one time so it is possible, i know several other people emailed them too.

Click to expand...

Yo hyroot looks like they're finally granting your wish!!! Lets all celebrate!!!!

we all need to send them a message. get the ball rolling. Lets use the power of the INTERNET.

Day 38 Update Week 6

Side by side comparison. 600w air cooled HPS eye Hortalux with a digital ballast in one tent and T5 Bad Boy 8 bulb with 3 Red Suns, 4 Flora Suns, 1 420 in the other. Same nutes, close to the same temps as I can. The HPS is running away with yield at this point, I would say about twice the size..... This is my first grow as well....

The T5 side is a little smellier and darker green, but nowhere near as dense.

Calrt said:

Day 38 Update Week 6

Side by side comparison. 600w air cooled HPS eye Hortalux with a digital ballast in one tent and T5 Bad Boy 8 bulb with 3 Red Suns, 4 Flora Suns, 1 420 in the other. Same nutes, close to the same temps as I can. The HPS is running away with yield at this point, I would say about twice the size..... This is my first grow as well....

The T5 side is a little smellier and darker green, but nowhere near as dense.

Click to expand...

480w vs 600w. Of course the HPS is going to win yield-wise. The T5 quality, however, will be better than the HPS.

poind3xter said:

480w vs 600w. Of course the HPS is going to win yield-wise. The T5 quality, however, will be better than the HPS.

Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 48'' t5 bulbs are 54watts each
54 X 8 = 432watts

The badboy is using about 28% less watts than the 600w
(Also, Carlt - do you have to use a more powerful fan/cooling system for your 600w fixture? If so, how many more watts does that consume than the fan used for the t5)

Regardless, twice the yield seems like an incredible difference. I know pr0fessor mentioned quality over quantity.... But I'm interested to hear how pr0fessor and other supporters of the PAR technique would explain these drastically different results..

If the PAR t5 is supposed to give more available light to the plant, then why would the plant not grow as vigorously? Anyone?

T5's are not going to penetrate to the same degree that HPS would. I didn't get my yield up until I was running 864W of T5 and then LST/Scrogging. I also keep my T5's 12-18 inches away to help light penetration. Using this method, at least right now is going to give up some yield. The benefits are less heat, lower energy consumption and higher quality bud. It's a trade off to be sure, but it's a trade I'd make every time...

...at least until induction lighting and/or led becomes cheaper and better suited to plant growth. I really feel induction lighting has awesome potential.

Calrt said:

Day 38 Update Week 6

Side by side comparison. 600w air cooled HPS eye Hortalux with a digital ballast in one tent and T5 Bad Boy 8 bulb with 3 Red Suns, 4 Flora Suns, 1 420 in the other. Same nutes, close to the same temps as I can. The HPS is running away with yield at this point, I would say about twice the size..... This is my first grow as well....

The T5 side is a little smellier and darker green, but nowhere near as dense.

Click to expand...

how much CO2 are you running in the tents? keep it at 1500 under the T5's and they should take off.

Carlt: I am thinking you are missing that bit of green spectrum that supercharges chlorophyll production. I think someone posted spectral graphs for these bulbs, some ~ 10 pages back, so you can thumb through. Also, you might have your T5s too far away (inverse square law) but in the end the 600 may be just that much stronger.

Apparently not . Maybe drop one of the Red Suns for another FloroSun

poind3xter said:

T5's are not going to penetrate to the same degree that HPS would. I didn't get my yield up until I was running 864W of T5 and then LST/Scrogging. I also keep my T5's 12-18 inches away to help light penetration. Using this method, at least right now is going to give up some yield. The benefits are less heat, lower energy consumption and higher quality bud. It's a trade off to be sure, but it's a trade I'd make every time...

...at least until induction lighting and/or led becomes cheaper and better suited to plant growth. I really feel induction lighting has awesome potential.

Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. I had not considered it, but it doesn't look like Carlt is using any method of canopy control, which could explain a lot.

tehshyt said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the 48'' t5 bulbs are 54watts each
54 X 8 = 432watts

The badboy is using about 28% less watts than the 600w
(Also, Carlt - do you have to use a more powerful fan/cooling system for your 600w fixture? If so, how many more watts does that consume than the fan used for the t5)

Regardless, twice the yield seems like an incredible difference. I know pr0fessor mentioned quality over quantity.... But I'm interested to hear how pr0fessor and other supporters of the PAR technique would explain these drastically different results..

If the PAR t5 is supposed to give more available light to the plant, then why would the plant not grow as vigorously? Anyone?

Click to expand...

I would also like to add that even though the 4ft T5 bulbs emit 54 watts or whatever of light, they are not emitting from a single point light source like HPS bulbs do. Therefore the intensity is going to be much much less. The light is spread out across a 4ft area. Moving the plants closer to the T5s will make up for the lack of intensity. I just flipped one of my plants under 2 red sun, 2 fiji, 4 flora sun to 12/12. Will see how the buds compare to my monsters under the HPS. Unfortunately all my monster buds got pollenated. The cutting I got must have been a mutant. I'm not sure what they are doing over seas with these strains, but it sure has been creating a lot of hermies. I'm off to go search for a cutting that is pure 100% female. No more of this mutant hermie trash. It's possible the HPS had something to do with the pollenation so if it happens under the T5 I know that it was just a trashy cut. I'm pretty down about it because the one plant I had flowered got a LB off of it. Now it is riddled with tiny hard seed crap.

blue - wow that realy suks to hear about the mutant messin up your crop like that

im hopeing the 5 I just started a week ago are all fem if not I'm gonna have some crazy bud turn out of seeds cuz they are all different strains

tehshyt said:

You're absolutely right. I had not considered it, but it doesn't look like Carlt is using any method of canopy control, which could explain a lot.

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Yep. In no way would I ever do a T5 grow and not use some form of canopy control.

poind3xter said:

T5's are not going to penetrate to the same degree that HPS would... I also keep my T5's 12-18 inches away to help light penetration....

Click to expand...

umm I dont even keep my HPS at that distance. Get yer T5's down to 2inches above the highest top and see about yield then. You could have 2k watts of T5 but if they're too far away, the energy that his the plants is about as strong as a cfl... get em right down on your tops and you wont have to worry about penetration. Everyone worries about penetration... If you have a HPS with a single point of light, a single large fan leaf can block a huge part of the plant from receiving direct light. With T5's if a high fan leaf is blocking light at one angle, the light being emitted from a 4foot long panel will be able to shine "around" that leaf... basically your foliage will get BETTER penetration with a T5 based on the wide spread of the light emission... Its just a matter of keeping them close enough to utilize the energy before it dissipates. Theres a balance w HID, far enough not to burn but close enough to still be strong light, T5's dont have the burning to worry about. get it as close as you can, then if a top grows into a tube just raise em a little then. The t5's will BARELY damage a plant that touches a tube.

Granted, lumens are not the best measurement to use with plants, but if a T5 8 panel is rated at 40k lumens at 1ft, using the inverse square law the light would be 160k lumens at 6" ***(I dont do math so correct me if Im wrong) my point is that lights are rated for lumens at one foot, if you cant get your HPS within the 1ft range you wont get its rated light ouput, but if you can get your T5's closer than 1ft then you will get significantly HIGHER lumen ratings than are given for that fixture.

My theory for why nugs from T5s arent as dense as HID's... HID's are single point light sources... if your plant is constantly reaching up towards a single point of light, the buds will all be growing in the general direction of that light source, up, which would lead to more dense nugs as they all grow towards that one point... with T5's the light the plants recieve comes from directly above, to almost 180deg in all directions (if you have your lights down low the top buds are getting light at an almost horizontal angle, very wide spread angle) I think the buds may be less desnse as they kinda spread out and reach towards the light they're getting on the sides rather than growing straight up towards that single point light like with HID. Make sense? it does to me lol.. my 3cents

Undercover - I don't know about the lumens part but as for the bud development that does make sence as the buds under the t5 can be fluffier because they have a horizon of light to look at instead of a hid being like a star in the sky the bud is trying to reach kinda forcing the buds to aim up instead of relaxed and just growing out like under the t5

If I lost nebody I'm sry but I hope you all get what I'm trying to get at

I got 3 red suns and 2 Fiji's to day , well 1 red sun has bit the dust already. I put the t5 in yesterday, and I have leaves reaching strait up.

I'm having great success with T5 and I keep them 6-10" above canopy for Veg and 2-4" during flower.

You absolutely 100% need to keep your canopy even doing T5!!! I mostly Supercrop about 5-10x up to about week 2 of flower. Then just do mild bending if it needs more control after that.

Sidenote: Badboy fixtures are very nice and have a great reflector. However they are built like shit and are fragile. That being said I sold all my other ones and just kept 4 8 bulb badboys