LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
Psytranceorgy said:
AND how are you trying to find a SIMILAR bulb that gives the same spectra, when you do not even know what that spectra is? Did you obtain instrumentation to measure the spectrum of the fiji purple? You'll take the one you can find though... The spectrum from another company's bulb (nlite PURple), that isn't even on the market

Sorry pr0f I had to go there... with all the talk of real science that goes on in this thread, your comments are pretty deflating
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Again... I'm not really in the mood to dig through the posts, but just a few pages back someone posted something about how the fiji purp was previously manufactured by Geissman, before KZ made them... and that the chart was confirmed for the Geissman version but not the KZ bulb... I believe that is the closest I've heard in this thread to an actual confirmation of the bulb.

Not sure why you think that not having solid evidence of this one bulb in a scientific chart form is grounds for disregarding the sound science and logic presented throughout the thread otherwise. Not to mention the evidence. But to each their own.
 
Psytranceorgy

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
AltarNation said:
Again... I'm not really in the mood to dig through the posts, but just a few pages back someone posted something about how the fiji purp was previously manufactured by Geissman, before KZ made them... and that the chart was confirmed for the Geissman version but not the KZ bulb... I believe that is the closest I've heard in this thread to an actual confirmation of the bulb.
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Sorry, this is just whackadoo. I suggest you go ahead and read through the posts.

AltarNation said:
Not sure why you think that not having solid evidence of this one bulb in a scientific chart form is grounds for disregarding the sound science and logic presented throughout the thread otherwise. Not to mention the evidence. But to each their own.
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Not sure why you think I am disregarding sound science and logic. Or evidence. I was actually criticizing the opposite. Anyways.
 
AltarNation

AltarNation

Well-Known Member
Like I said, to each their own. You can call me whackadoo all day man, I don't really care. These bulbs are growing nice plants. I can't speak for Pr0f and his science. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, just to learn something interesting and attempt to apply it, and it is working for me.

If you read my post again you will see that I said, "this is the closest we've come to an actual confirmation of the bulb." Which, in case you didn't realize, is basically the same thing as saying that it remains uncomfirmed. And you turn around and toss insults. Okay.

To be clear, it just sounded like you were saying that because he uses one bulb that doesn't have a chart to back it up that we should discount the rest of his research. If that is not what you meant, I apologize.

-

Bout done with being a part of this thread at this point... seems like it's just being used as a grounds for people to argue at this point. I'll be sure to put up a journal post with more pics and harvest pics in the near future, so anyone who's interested, feel free to look out for that.

Thanks again Pr0f, your help's been invaluable.

Peace out guys.
 
organicbynature

organicbynature

Active Member
AltarNation said:
Like I said, to each their own. You can call me whackadoo all day man, I don't really care. These bulbs are growing nice plants. I can't speak for Pr0f and his science. I'm not here to prove anything to anyone, just to learn something interesting and attempt to apply it, and it is working for me.

If you read my post again you will see that I said, "this is the closest we've come to an actual confirmation of the bulb." Which, in case you didn't realize, is basically the same thing as saying that it remains uncomfirmed. And you turn around and toss insults. Okay.

To be clear, it just sounded like you were saying that because he uses one bulb that doesn't have a chart to back it up that we should discount the rest of his research. If that is not what you meant, I apologize.

-

Bout done with being a part of this thread at this point... seems like it's just being used as a grounds for people to argue at this point. I'll be sure to put up a journal post with more pics and harvest pics in the near future, so anyone who's interested, feel free to look out for that.

Thanks again Pr0f, your help's been invaluable.

Peace out guys.
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I think sometimes in this thread (and of course, elsewhere) opinion/anecdotes and "scientific fact" get confused. I don't think anyone in this thread has argued that the Fiji is a bad bulb, that you can't grow cannabis with it, or that it invalidates anything else.

However, the bulb has at times in this thread been promoted as THE bulb to use. Prof mentions at one point (before the graph issue came up) that you can use all Fiji's if you want, though it would be expensive. The only problem with this is that we don't have good information regarding this bulb. If it was mentioned somewhere (besides a couple pages back) that the Fiji is the same bulb as the one that we have the chart for, I didn't see that. I don't think it happened, but anyone can feel free to link the post (again, I know that was said recently, but I'm not sure what it was referencing).

Can you grow with Fiji's? Yes. Does it work well? Early results seem to suggest it does. Is it better than some of the less expensive alternatives? We have no idea, because we don't know exactly what the bulb is putting out and we don't have any comparisons.

It may be the greatest bulb available to us, hopefully so at $30 a pop, or it may be comparable to or even worse than less expensive alternatives. We don't know, which is OK as long as we don't act like we do.

Personally, I don't see enough evidence that those particular bulbs are worth $30 for me to drop the extra cash on them. I went with the Flora Suns for my base at $10 ea. You (whomever) can tell me the Fiji's are better, but there's really no evidence to that effect.

That's my two cents.
 
Psytranceorgy

Psytranceorgy

Well-Known Member
Ok, just simma down now, simma down! lol

Altar, nobody is calling you whackadoo, tossing insults at you, or discounting the good pr0f's research! I posted a 'reply with quote' to specific comments that were made by the pr0f concerning the KZ Fiji Purple spectrum. This subject material dates back nearly 3 months ago to some very informative discussions on pages 52-57 of this thread, in which it was shown that the graph for the fiji purple does not exist, nor has it ever existed. The fiji purple was never manufactured by any other company besides KZ. The spectrum we are talking about belongs to a company called nLite and their PURple bulb, which you cannot purchase. In my reply to the pr0f, I criticized what I perceived to be a public lapse in his scientific method, the same method that he has upheld here so dearly (which we should all thank him for!), and that we should all adhere to as we press forward. He is a leader here, and this is his thread. He has proven his theories, and attracted lots of 'students.' I think that the pr0f is a big boy, and can handle the criticism. I also don't think that the pr0f wants one of the end results of his work here to be a bunch of misled consumers running out and buying up KZ Fiji Purples under false pretenses. I dunno... maybe it is lol! Maybe he is getting a kickback! AHHHH THAT'S IT!!! lol

Just go read pages 52-57. You were providing false information... lots of it. That is what I am calling whackadoo... not you personally! The fiji purple was never manufactured by any other company besides KZ. Giesemann never made it. I am guessing you concluded that they did because of the image with the unfortunate and obviously mislabeled filename "giesemann fiji purple" that was posted in that Practical Coral Farming acticle. We've been through this. The spectrum we are talking about belongs to a company called nLite and their PURple bulb, which you cannot purchase. If it is insulting to you that I am pointing this out, and making you feel that I am attempting to discount the rest of pr0f's research, then you are indeed sorely mistaken =D Love your pics! Keep up the good work
 
F

falcon223

Active Member
Shit no Alter Nation you got to hang around, and see what comes next. I like to hear your in put.
I think you have been productive here.
Might be a new bulb out soon, just because of this thread.
 
Dont Fear The Reefer

Dont Fear The Reefer

New Member
Does this help in any way?
Fiji purple, scroll down
http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html



Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple - Do you know how nearly impossible it was to find this spectral graph? I actually can't even remember how I came across it, but this is the graph for KZ's Fiji Purple. This bulb is pinkish in appearance, and tends to bring out more of the red colors in corals. I've had great results with these bulbs, and when combined with a giesemann pure actinic they make the colors really glow. My favorite combination at the moment in my 8 bulb fixtures are 6 x ATI Blue Plus, 1 Fiji Purple, and 1 Pure Actinic. In my SPS system I replaced the pure actinic with an ATI Aquaspezial.
 
organicbynature

organicbynature

Active Member
Dont Fear The Reefer said:
Does this help in any way?
Fiji purple, scroll down
http://www.practicalcoralfarming.com/t5spectrums.html



Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple - Do you know how nearly impossible it was to find this spectral graph? I actually can't even remember how I came across it, but this is the graph for KZ's Fiji Purple. This bulb is pinkish in appearance, and tends to bring out more of the red colors in corals. I've had great results with these bulbs, and when combined with a giesemann pure actinic they make the colors really glow. My favorite combination at the moment in my 8 bulb fixtures are 6 x ATI Blue Plus, 1 Fiji Purple, and 1 Pure Actinic. In my SPS system I replaced the pure actinic with an ATI Aquaspezial.
Click to expand...
No, that perpetuates the confusion. This might help though: :)



NOT THE Korallen Zucht Fiji Purple - Do you know how nearly impossible it was to find this spectral graph? I actually can't even remember how I came across it, in fact this might not even be the graph for the Fiji Purple. It might be the graph for the nLite PURple, a bulb that is no longer available. However, I'm (presumably) confused and suppose I'll just go ahead and mis-represent this graph to the community, which well then perpetuate the bad information until the graph is commonly mis-identified as the Fiji Purple, even though Korallen Zucht has been clear that there are no publicly available spectrum graphs for their bulbs. What harm could it do?
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
Are you anti javascript for a particular reason?
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Once when I was young, Javascript pants'd me in front of the whole school...I never got over it ;) Actually I have to turn it off for proxy reasons.

Please Altar, don't leave this thread! We need you around here and more like you who are dedicated to this research and performing these experiments which benefit us all. And you can't leave before I get my T5 :) I know you said you're going to set up a journal and I can't wait to see your results. Everything looks great so far. The Pr0fesseur will be pissed if he hears this so nobody tell him I asked you this ;) but I am curious about the yield as well. I think we've gone beyond the Pr0f's initial goal, which was to prove that these lamps are effective for growing and maintaining plantlife throughout it's entire life cycle. Now I believe we are ready for the exciting part where we can begin to look at and talk about performance...or maybe it's just me who's excited! But to quote Rodney Dangerfield "keep it fair, keep it fair!" We must do fair comparisons. Comparing a 432W grow to a 600 or 1000W HPS isn't really a terribly fair, or scientific trial.

As for the Fiji Purple discussion, I believe we will obtain the correct data one day, but for now, can everyone just accept the fact that they are very good bulbs and work for growing. I've been reading some coral forums and have heard pretty much unanimous support for them. Fish tank owners and reef enthusiasts love them and say their coral has never flourished so much as with these lights. Granted coral is a bit of a different plant, but still performs the same plant operation of photosynthesis. So time will tell if they are worth the money, but like organicbynature said, if you don't feel comfortable paying the higher price, go with something more affordable. The best way to determine their efficacy would be to do and all Fiji grow side by side with a no Fiji. Short of that, it's all speculative.
 
organicbynature

organicbynature

Active Member
Dont Fear The Reefer said:
Just trying to be helpful and this is what I get
Fahgeddabowtit
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No worries, bro. :)

That's the graph that's circulating around. That guy put it in his article and then it spread from there. As previously mentioned, we found out the graph belonged to a different bulb about 55 pages into the thread.

I posted that because I thought it should be clear to people who are just popping in and not reading all the way through the thread that there is no Fiji Purple graph as of this time.

Cheers!
 
organicbynature

organicbynature

Active Member
Dont Fear The Reefer said:
I sent an email to Korallen Zucht maybe theyll cough it up...
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They've reportedly been pretty definitive about not releasing a graph for the bulb, but let us know what they say! Who knows, maybe if enough people bug them about it they'll change their minds. :)

It would be great if the bulb were shown to be as good as expected!
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
So I've been looking at a few fixtures and need a little advice on which one to go with, never having owned a T5 before. So I'll list them first and then give my thoughts:

New Wave T5-48 8x lamp fixture - $264

Quantum Badboy T5-48 8x Lamp fixture w/o bulbs- $190

Sun Blaze T5-48 4FT 8x Lamp T5 Grow Light - $190

Wave Point T5-48 4x lamp 54w T5 HO 4 Lamp Lighting System - $252

So I guess I was originally thinking about the Badboy or the Sun Blaze because they are the same price. I don't know if the Sun Blaze has individual reflectors like the Badboy, or if it has the dual switches so you can turn on only 4 bulbs instead of the full 8. For those reasons I was tending towards to Badboy. My only reservation was that many people throughout the thread commented on it's shoddy assembly and tendency towards troubled operation.

The New Wave is an alternative, and here is a very interesting comment on the description of the fixture from Specialty Lights website: "Other T5 Light features include a solid state electronic ballast that is enclosed in the fixture and does not emit heat, noise or vibration." Here's the link so you can read it for yourselves and not take my word for it: New Wave T5

I can't see how that could possibly be true about the does not emit heat part right? If it's true then it's a no-brainer which light to get since many have said that they still struggle with heat issues from the ballasts.

The Wave Point I threw in because the Pr0fesseur had said somewhere in the thread that if budget was no concern, it would be his top choice, but it only has 4 lamps instead of 8. Perhaps the Pr0fesseur might chime in and explain his reasons for loving this light?
What does it do that the others don't?
Does it take care of the heat issue?

I had hoped to find an alternative to having to get the Solar Wind T5 because then I will have to do the whole duct and fan setup which is really annoying seeing as I am going to do a sealed room. I wish that the ballasts didn't give off heat. Funnily enough, the new HID electronic digital ballasts give off very little (if any) heat, so I wonder why T5 can't be the same. Damn you HEAT!!!
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Redoctober said:
Once when I was young, Javascript pants'd me in front of the whole school...I never got over it ;) Actually I have to turn it off for proxy reasons.

Please Altar, don't leave this thread! We need you around here and more like you who are dedicated to this research and performing these experiments which benefit us all. And you can't leave before I get my T5 :) I know you said you're going to set up a journal and I can't wait to see your results. Everything looks great so far. The Pr0fesseur will be pissed if he hears this so nobody tell him I asked you this ;) but I am curious about the yield as well. I think we've gone beyond the Pr0f's initial goal, which was to prove that these lamps are effective for growing and maintaining plantlife throughout it's entire life cycle. Now I believe we are ready for the exciting part where we can begin to look at and talk about performance...or maybe it's just me who's excited! But to quote Rodney Dangerfield "keep it fair, keep it fair!" We must do fair comparisons. Comparing a 432W grow to a 600 or 1000W HPS isn't really a terribly fair, or scientific trial.

As for the Fiji Purple discussion, I believe we will obtain the correct data one day, but for now, can everyone just accept the fact that they are very good bulbs and work for growing. I've been reading some coral forums and have heard pretty much unanimous support for them. Fish tank owners and reef enthusiasts love them and say their coral has never flourished so much as with these lights. Granted coral is a bit of a different plant, but still performs the same plant operation of photosynthesis. So time will tell if they are worth the money, but like organicbynature said, if you don't feel comfortable paying the higher price, go with something more affordable. The best way to determine their efficacy would be to do and all Fiji grow side by side with a no Fiji. Short of that, it's all speculative.
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Coral growers raving about Fiji, but compared to what... Coral Waves? That seems to be the test that would put this topic to bed. I would gladly pay more IF I was CERTAIN I was getting my money's worth.

On a positive note, I am seeing new pistils and trics since reducing ppms to ~ 700 and diluting when ~ 800. It would be awesome if she started fattening up again, but she is a Sat, so she may not fatten up much anyway, but as long as the calyxes and trics do, then I'm golden.

I will take potency per gram over volume any day. The less I smoke to get high the better it is on my lungs
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
I think the important thing to focus on here is PAR. It can be achieved using various combinations of coral bulbs

Here's the Wave Point Coral Wave graph (can't copy image). Currently $14.75 from Aquarium Specialties.

http://www.aquariumspecialty.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/w/p/wp-coralwave_2.jpg

They sell the Fiji Purple for $31.40

IF we could believe the Fiji graph for PAR, I am thinking the combination of Coral Wave + Red Life compares, but I get twice the bulbs/coverage for ~ the same money. Yes/No?

Veg I am using: 2 UVL Aqua Suns +2 Coral Waves + 2 ATI Blue Special + 2 Quantum Grow 6500K, which is actually a decent grow bulb and I have 8 of them to use somewhere.

Flower I am using: 2 CWs + 3 UVL Red Life/Sun (which fills in the reds missing from the CW) + 2 ATI Blue Specials @ $19.95 (nice 550 spike + reds) and one Quantum Bloom 2900K on the outside. Yes it needs replacing, but I bought 8 of them too prior to finding Pr0f's thread.


 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
The coral wave does not compare to any of them. you can't even use the coral wave during veg. That bulb has way more infrared than any bulb. Infrared induces flowering. 1 coral wave bulb on a 6 bulb on a 18 hour on 6 hour off, you will see buds forming in 1 to 3 days. The younger the plant the sooner it causes flowering. I learned that twice the hard way. No one here seems to read the chart right. AGAIN THE BIG RED SPIKE PEAKS AT 765 NM. That is passed 700 nm which means that spike is INFRARED!!!!!!!!!!! I have said this same thing already 4 other time in this thread. The red spikes in all the other bulbs are around 630 nm or 660 nm. That is before or below 700nm which means its on the visible par scale betweeb 400 nm and 700 nm.

The coral wave has 35% infrared at 765 nm


NM - NANOMETERS - the numbers that run horizontally across the bottom.

% of energy - numbers that runs vertically usually on the left side.
 
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