LED, Inda-Gro Induction, Plasma, CMH, MH or HPS? This may help you decide...

acidking

acidking

Well-Known Member
PetFlora -

"I would not mix 730 into the SPYDR bars
You could by a couple 2ft bars with 730 and put them on separate timer"
≠
"saying 730 is best on separate bars/timer" ​

You may think that's what you were implying, but stating a negative opinion does not mean you are expressing a positive correlation.

Just like saying, "I wouldn't smoke opium & weed together" doesn't mean the same thing as "weed is best smoked alone."

There could be all sorts of reasons why you wouldn't mix 730nm into the SPYDR, but this is how your choice of wording came across...

"I would not mix 730 into the SPYDR bars"
gets interpreted as
"I don't see the value of having 730's on the SPYDR"​

The negative association conveyed in the phrase, "I would not mix 730..." then unfortunately carries over to your next sentence... since you hadn't made any positive references to the value of 730nm in your post.

"You could buy a couple 2ft bars with 730 and put them on separate timer"
gets interpreted as
"Get them if you must, but I wouldn't bother."
​
We now know this wasn't your intention, but it just goes to show how easy it is to misinterpret peoples opinions based on the words they use to convey information.
 
Positivity

Positivity

Well-Known Member
Looking at groerrs cmh grow, he is getting very fast flowering.

At the same days flowering our grows seem to be at about the same pace. His grow has 730nm included in his broad cmh spectrum. Mine has a end of day trigger and a little in the warm white.

So..I think if you get the far red levels correct in your spectrum it can work well enough, maybe best. Well enough that a seperate flash at lights out seems unnecessary.

But are you maxing out Pfr (<?) levels that way?

What's more important? Maxing out flowering hormones or mid/late flowering 730nm absorbance?

Hard subject to nail down.

At this point I just like the flash..730nm didn't amaze me in flower and I gave a pretty hefty dose once for the full 12hrs.

Leds can allow that custom schedule. Short of that, cmh does it with a nice even spectrum across the board. Both ways should yield well. Just two different ways to get to a similar point maybe. With leds maxing Pfr having a slight edge..maybe..haha
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Positivity said:
Looking at groerrs cmh grow, he is getting very fast flowering.

At the same days flowering our grows seem to be at about the same pace. His grow has 730nm included in his broad cmh spectrum. Mine has a end of day trigger and a little in the warm white.

So..I think if you get the far red levels correct in your spectrum it can work well enough, maybe best. Well enough that a seperate flash at lights out seems unnecessary.

But are you maxing out Pfr (<?) levels that way?

What's more important? Maxing out flowering hormones or mid/late flowering 730nm absorbance?

Hard subject to nail down.

At this point I just like the flash..730nm didn't amaze me in flower and I gave a pretty hefty dose once for the full 12hrs.

Leds can allow that custom schedule. Short of that, cmh does it with a nice even spectrum across the board. Both ways should yield well. Just two different ways to get to a similar point maybe. With leds maxing Pfr having a slight edge..maybe..haha
Click to expand...
Good point, those Philips Agro 3100k bulbs produce enough and may very well be a factor in why they're flowering so fast in comparison to hps and LED's. I have no plans to add 730nm to those bulbs, if anything I'd want to slow them down a notch - lol But I'll be building some 3070 COB panels which don't have as full a spectrum, some running separate runs from the CMH and thinking of adding some 730's to that setup. Good point though, perhaps just supplementing the 3070's with enough 730's (through the full 12 hr on cycle) and there'd be no need for separate initiators. I don't know enough or have the time to dig into the details of the spectrum/output of those Philips Agro CMH bulbs but from what I'm seeing so far, matching/simulating that spectrum/band with LED's wouldn't be a bad thing imo.
 
Positivity

Positivity

Well-Known Member
I don't think you'd have to match spectrums at all. The cmh probably fills in most of the holes of the led spectrum. And enough far red for the whole area. No flower trigger necessary or extra far red needed at all. Just a major light boost from the 3070s.

That's my take on it anyways..

Plus there's the fact the 3070s rock on their own..

But I think they might rock a bit more with the cmh in the mix..:bigjoint:.

Far as I can tell spectrum does matter
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
Yeah, won't know until I get mine going in a mini side-by-side to see how they differ. The 3070's sure seem to do the job well or I wouldn't have invested around the same amount as buying a higher end commercial panel ;) And if I have some 3070's around and not being used, I'll be supplementing those Philips CMH bulbs with the 3070's, that combo should be awesome.
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Acid, you seem to be the only one confused by my post

Maybe you were high each time you read it, and read into it instead of understanding when I said I would not put them into the SPYDR bars that they would be added separately on additional bars, which can be purchased separately, each with their own power supply

If you look at IndaGros pontoons, there are only a few FRs

You can buy 12" custom bars and mix with other spectrums

There is much controversy on when to have them on. By being separate you can experiment

I mixed Coral Waves, which have FR, when I grew using hot5. They were on the entire time along with the rest of the bulbs. I had way too much stretch. In later grows, I added them after buds set and it was 'better'.

hth
 
GroErr

GroErr

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Acid, you seem to be the only one confused by my post

Maybe you were high each time you read it, and read into it instead of understanding when I said I would not put them into the SPYDR bars that they would be added separately on additional bars, which can be purchased separately, each with their own power supply

If you look at IndaGros pontoons, there are only a few FRs

You can buy 12" custom bars and mix with other spectrums

There is much controversy on when to have them on. By being separate you can experiment

I mixed Coral Waves, which have FR, when I grew using hot5. They were on the entire time along with the rest of the bulbs. I had way too much stretch. In later grows, I added them after buds set and it was 'better'.

hth
Click to expand...
That's what I'm thinking for supplementing the 3070's, a couple of these 12" bars would do it. Like you said you can mix it up and do some testing if you have them on a separate timer. On for 12 hrs + 10 minutes, on for 10 minutes at lights out, see if there's any significant difference. I'm thinking I'd try them on for the full cycle + 10 minutes first, this bulb I'm running has pretty significant output in that 730 range and could have a correlation to running it throughout the cycle, worth a try I think. Those custom bars would lend themselves well for filling in the gaps if that has any merit.
 
acidking

acidking

Well-Known Member
PetFlora said:
Acid, you seem to be the only one confused by my post
Click to expand...
Was I the only one confused by your post?

PetFlora said:
It seems both of you missed me saying 730 is best on separate bars/timer
Click to expand...
Because, by your own admission, it was more than just me.

Subsequently, all I was trying to do was point out why your post was misinterpreted by at least two of the people on this thread.

By the way, I haven't smoked anything for more than 5 years, and rarely drink... like maybe a Rum & Coke, or Margarita with dinner twice a year.

Add to that... for the last 3 years of High School I was in AP english classes and managed a 96%, 95%, 97% respectively, the next closest person to me (any of those years) was at 92%. I continued pull the top grade in my college english courses as well. So, for better or worse, I pay more attention to how sentences are structured and how words are used.

So maybe it was you who was high... because the way they are written, your initial posts on the subject of 730s conveyed little to no useful information, and certainly not the information you were trying to get across.

If you think I'm too pedantic, feel free to leave this thread.

If you'd like to continue contributing, that's fine too, but please try to include why you would follow a certain course of action, and why you feel it would yield better results... rather than just stating what you did, or what course you feel others should take, because without the why, your posts lack meaning and don't contribute nearly as much to the discussion as you seem to believe they do. Sources, to back opinions, are also always appreciated.
 
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makomachine

makomachine

Member
acidking said:
Was I the only one confused by your post?



Because, by your own admission, it was more than just me.

Subsequently, all I was trying to do was point out why your post was misinterpreted by at least two of the people on this thread.

By the way, I haven't smoked anything for more than 5 years, and rarely drink... like maybe a Rum & Coke, or Margarita with dinner twice a year.

Add to that... for the last 3 years of High School I was in AP english classes and managed a 96%, 95%, 97% respectively, the next closest person to me (any of those years) was at 92%. I continued pull the top grade in my college english courses as well. So, for better or worse, I pay more attention to how sentences are structured and how words are used.

So maybe it was you who was high... because the way they are written, your initial posts on the subject of 730s conveyed little to no useful information, and certainly not the information you were trying to get across.

If you think I'm too pedantic, feel free to leave this thread.

If you'd like to continue contributing, that's fine too, but please try to include why you would follow a certain course of action, and why you feel it would yield better results... rather than just stating what you did, or what course you feel others should take, because without the why, your posts lack meaning and don't contribute nearly as much to the discussion as you seem to believe they do. Sources, to back opinions, are also always appreciated.
Click to expand...
Anytime pedantic gets thrown out, it's time to head for cover!

Seriously, let it go everyone. This bickering is killing productive conversation. I'm fairly new here, but not sure why so many threads end up in semantic wars - other than its 'the internet'. I'm learning a lot from ALL OF YOU - as lighting is so foreign to this brown thumb turning green. It's a journey and this forum has a lot to teach!
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Pedantic, or just unwilling to admit that you (and ONE other) read more into my post than was there?

And so, it seems you feel the need to get in the last word thinking somehow that exonerates you?

Let no good deed go unpunished

I am leaving now, as I have no time for such BS
 
acidking

acidking

Well-Known Member
and there was much rejoicing! :clap::clap::clap:

I had no idea that the prospect of conveying useful information, explanations, and sources was BS that people can't be bothered to make time for... but maybe I'm reading more into that than I should. ;)

Enjoy the rest of the thread people, I promise I'll behave from here on out. :peace:
 
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