LED Companies w/ LINKS

Scotch089 said:

So flux. You're here to tell us things we all already know. And have came to prove that photon density is what matters foremost (thanks g), and then lightly drop a remark about what I presume is a company that you are vested in?

Stay classy Nevada.

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Scotch,

From your response, clearly you have experience or intimate knowledge with LEDs that maybe many members of this forum with less experience. I am here to simply open a dialogue with growers who want to share experiences with growing under LED technology. As somebody who participates at various levels within the lighting industry (including horticulture), I am here to communicate information that I believe to valuable. I understand that some growers may not see the value, however I interact with various manufacturers in different capacities and want to learn from this forum as much as possible to bring about better lighting products, specifically in the indoor agriculture market segment.

Is it your opinion that quantity of light is more important than quality of light?

fluxgro said:

[...]
Is it your opinion that quantity of light is more important than quality of light?

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This is growers forum lol. HPS proved that for us many many years ago. And TBH I think that YOU can get there 'valuable information'. Not sure about vice versa.

fluxgro said:

Scotch,

From your response, clearly you have experience or intimate knowledge with LEDs that maybe many members of this forum with less experience. I am here to simply open a dialogue with growers who want to share experiences with growing under LED technology. As somebody who participates at various levels within the lighting industry (including horticulture), I am here to communicate information that I believe to valuable. I understand that some growers may not see the value, however I interact with various manufacturers in different capacities and want to learn from this forum as much as possible to bring about better lighting products, specifically in the indoor agriculture market segment.

Is it your opinion that quantity of light is more important than quality of light?

Click to expand...

Can you talk about what emitters are being used in your fixtures(group/bin/ mnfctr/ nm)?...........I see you've tested it on cannabis, what weights are you getting under the recommended coverage area??

I do believe the quantity of light is just as if not more important than secret sauce. Greengenes has shown and explained that. Everything I am saying is what I have learned from OTHERS here and a little bit of my own dabbling.

Quantity of light is top dog, just in the right amount. I remember g referencing this the exact same way I'm about to- it's not gonna mean squat if you pack photons in a space of just 445nm You are just going to stunt growth. So yes quality is very important (my personal favorite to read up on) but using predominantly white light, you eliminate that variable and can focus on delivering the right amount of light for your application. Don't take this as me saying it's unnecessary to apply the nms that the chlorophyll peaks sit at. But if you look at the mccree sheet I think it really brings to light the HUGE sales pitch Leds started on. They are NOT more efficient growing fixtures because they focus their energy on the important wavelengths, their efficient fixtures because they can produce the same spectra as previous sources... more efficiently. Instead of a 2:1 of heat: photon you are closer to a 1:1, 3:2 with leds.

I still strongly believe red needs supplemented if the white source does not supply what I think it should. But I am no scientists. Look at how hps produces, now look at those shitty peaks, that bare graph. At this point I think any white light led Source can out produce an hps given the right amount. Obviously the less efficient the more you'll need which could end up being counterproductive but looking at the colors they deliver in its own - leds spectrum is hands down the winner.

I just wish some companies would realize this. And not pack in so much blue leds that they end up screwing themselves and the their customers. (Like I was)

"especially for applications requiring higher lumen output and associated costs. I wouldn't disagree with you that they work well for your application."

I don't understand the comment you made about cobs being too large for a fixture. You know as well as anyone else that the amount of light produced with leds is determined by how hard they are driven (mA), so if you are trying to consolidate on fixture space have less emitters with harder current or more emitters with softer current. The only thing I consider a problem is the upfront cost to produce the panel vs turnove/profit margin, but with such a wide viewing angle I think this REALLY helps companies because they can use 2-4 of the cobs and drive them harder- and by the time the might reaches the plants (12-18") the light had crossed over so well That it's compensating for the falloff in that viewing angle without having to up their costs to make sure it still delivers what it needs to.

I have crammed 8 cobs inside a space smaller than a 2x3' footprint along with 19 smaller chips. The same space I previously used 80-200 smaller emitters to light the space. I think it just comes down to the companies sitting down and crunching the numbers and doing some real scenario testing to realize how cost effective cobs could really be.

A51 isn't an idiot- he wouldn't be able to invest in the high quality cobs without starting where he had, but now that he has the capacity He knows it's worth it for us and himself. (Performance and margin)

"The downside is the large form factor associated with COBs.
The physical size becomes increasingly more difficult to control light optically, resulting in a much larger luminaire. "



I've to be retarded or something like that ...


The Vero 29 array has a diameter of ~50 mm ..
That is about 19,6 square centimeters area ....


So ...It's easier to place 156 single diode LEDs on / inside that surface area ,
instead of using a Vero 29 COB array ....


I was not aware of that ...


Well ...At least I keep learning new things- by the "pros" , all the time ,inside this forum ...


Cheers.

stardustsailor said:

"The downside is the large form factor associated with COBs.
The physical size becomes increasingly more difficult to control light optically, resulting in a much larger luminaire. "



I've to be retarded or something like that ...


The Vero 29 array has a diameter of ~50 mm ..
That is about 19,6 square centimeters area ....


So ...It's easier to place 156 single diode LEDs on / inside that surface area ,
instead of using a Vero 29 COB array ....


I was not aware of that ...


Well ...At least I keep learning new things- by the "pros" , all the time ,inside this forum ...


Cheers.

Click to expand...

And I thought you knew it all!

Scotch,

I don’t disagree with your statement “quantity of light is top dog, just in the right amount”. In order to optimize a desired outcome, (i.e. yield/watt), the results are based on a combination of variables.

While I see the importance of integrating ‘white’ LEDs into a blended color spectrum, by using primarily ‘white’ LEDs growers are essentially wasting energy, which falls short of an optimized lighting system. Understanding those who are having success using predominantly white applications, I would be interested in learning which LED devices are being used and what wavelengths or correlated color temperatures (CCT). Are you aware of Osram EQ LEDs? The EQ device is Osram’s full-spectrum white. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts?

When you apply the McCree Chlorophyl A curve with weighted spectrum under primarily white light, it appears as though the majority of photosynthetic light is lost since McCree gives more weight to 450nm and 660nm.

In response to your comment:

“They are NOT more efficient growing fixtures because they focus their energy on the important wavelengths, their efficient fixtures because they can produce the same spectra as previous sources...more efficiently”.

As it relates to plants, I understand that 1 watt of Green is less efficient than 1 watt of Red. Does this make sense from an efficiency perspective to feed the plant with appropriate wavelengths it needs more so than just ‘quantity’?
I believe the LED industry recognizes that simply ‘producing the same with less’ is not good enough. We are seeing this with leading LED manufacturers moving research and development efforts forward at a quick pace to ‘produce something different’ that drives greater VALUE.

I appreciate the dialougue.

Scotch089 said:

I do believe the quantity of light is just as if not more important than secret sauce. Greengenes has shown and explained that. Everything I am saying is what I have learned from OTHERS here and a little bit of my own dabbling.

Quantity of light is top dog, just in the right amount. I remember g referencing this the exact same way I'm about to- it's not gonna mean squat if you pack photons in a space of just 445nm You are just going to stunt growth. So yes quality is very important (my personal favorite to read up on) but using predominantly white light, you eliminate that variable and can focus on delivering the right amount of light for your application. Don't take this as me saying it's unnecessary to apply the nms that the chlorophyll peaks sit at. But if you look at the mccree sheet I think it really brings to light the HUGE sales pitch Leds started on. They are NOT more efficient growing fixtures because they focus their energy on the important wavelengths, their efficient fixtures because they can produce the same spectra as previous sources... more efficiently. Instead of a 2:1 of heat: photon you are closer to a 1:1, 3:2 with leds.

I still strongly believe red needs supplemented if the white source does not supply what I think it should. But I am no scientists. Look at how hps produces, now look at those shitty peaks, that bare graph. At this point I think any white light led Source can out produce an hps given the right amount. Obviously the less efficient the more you'll need which could end up being counterproductive but looking at the colors they deliver in its own - leds spectrum is hands down the winner.

I just wish some companies would realize this. And not pack in so much blue leds that they end up screwing themselves and the their customers. (Like I was)

"especially for applications requiring higher lumen output and associated costs. I wouldn't disagree with you that they work well for your application."

I don't understand the comment you made about cobs being too large for a fixture. You know as well as anyone else that the amount of light produced with leds is determined by how hard they are driven (mA), so if you are trying to consolidate on fixture space have less emitters with harder current or more emitters with softer current. The only thing I consider a problem is the upfront cost to produce the panel vs turnove/profit margin, but with such a wide viewing angle I think this REALLY helps companies because they can use 2-4 of the cobs and drive them harder- and by the time the might reaches the plants (12-18") the light had crossed over so well That it's compensating for the falloff in that viewing angle without having to up their costs to make sure it still delivers what it needs to.

I have crammed 8 cobs inside a space smaller than a 2x3' footprint along with 19 smaller chips. The same space I previously used 80-200 smaller emitters to light the space. I think it just comes down to the companies sitting down and crunching the numbers and doing some real scenario testing to realize how cost effective cobs could really be.

A51 isn't an idiot- he wouldn't be able to invest in the high quality cobs without starting where he had, but now that he has the capacity He knows it's worth it for us and himself. (Performance and margin)

Click to expand...

fluxgro said:

‘white’ LEDs growers are essentially wasting energy, which falls short of an optimized lighting system.

Click to expand...

What year is this?

The amazing Mastertool Corporation, ace subsidiary of Fly-By-Night Industries, has entrusted who? Me! To show you the handiest and the dandiest LED tool you've ever seen, and don't you want to know how it works!

All you need to do is mix 1 part red and 1 part yellow, and 20% 1000 Island Dressing.

Ladies and gentlemen...

I give to you:

Rellow 2.0!!

PSUAGRO. said:

Can you talk about what emitters are being used in your fixtures(group/bin/ mnfctr/ nm)?...........I see you've tested it on cannabis, what weights are you getting under the recommended coverage area??

Click to expand...

LUXdynamics horticulture luminaires are populated with LEDs from Osram Opto Semiconductor.

fluxgro said:

LUXdynamics horticulture luminaires are populated with LEDs from Osram Opto Semiconductor.

Click to expand...

I think I've heard of them........so how have your results been with cannabis? I'm guessing your fixtures are all monochromatic?

The masses want group/bin# in here fyi....

Ok, obviously the reception for Fuxgrow's product is overwhelming positive but there are other quality companies out there ya know...

I don't know how long it's been posted/uploaded but I decided to check on our friends at Rapid and it would appear that they have released their new product... check it out!

http://www.rapidled.com/indus-20-by-rapid-led/

Edit:

Someone PLEASE tell me Rapid ain't selling 20W output fixtures for $300 and that I rushed my calculations...

Doesn't that heat sink seem small to cool xp-l passively? I'm on my phone, can't see much...and don't know how hard their pushing them either

Also completely exposed mcpb ? That can't be.....

Need to get my eyes checked tbh.....Lol, damn monos!

660nm....what happened to 630nm...lol

@PSUAGRO. looks like 120w for white and 70w for red. 20" long..

Positivity said:

660nm....what happened to 630nm...lol

@PSUAGRO. looks like 120w for white and 70w for red. 20" long..

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Their using XP-L's, typical voltage ~3V, max current is 3A but their running them at 350ma... there's x20 XP-L's per bar-fixture... I came up with 20W output.... Is that what you got or am I doing something wrong here? I could see ~$300 for a new 120W fixture but I'm only counting 20W total...

That needs a kill a watt asap...lol

AquariusPanta said:

Their using XP-L's, typical voltage ~3V, max current is 3A but their running them at 350ma... there's x20 XP-L's per bar-fixture... I came up with 20W output.... Is that what you got or am I doing something wrong here? I could see ~$300 for a new 120W fixture but I'm only counting 20W total...

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Heat sink size makes sense now.......Lol

You sure it's 350ma?.....got to look at this shit when I get home.

Rapid makes me nervous just lookin at em. Cant take the chance on a meltdown. Maybe others would, Not even a top 5 . Just my opinion! And I also don't like that they say there onyx replaces a 600watt hps with 225! There full shit!

PSUAGRO. said:

Heat sink size makes sense now.......Lol

You sure it's 350ma?.....got to look at this shit when I get home.

Click to expand...

Naw, I misread the driver title. The one they have supplies between 0~9.7A, with it being constant voltage.

They are also using DC to DC drivers, giving each LED around 1500mA. This brings the Indus 20 to around 87W output, which is better than 20W.

A51? got a ship date on the new ones yet?