Larger scale organic growers opinions and advice.

shawn80j said:

Awesome 2 harvest I could live with but still won't work for me with the aging process. I know a lot about organics I know the whole feed the soil not the plant saying and I know a lot about the Bennies. I was just hoping I could mix plant grow and water and call it good.

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try the vermifire, its also a good soil to re-use, you'll need to reamend that soil past the first harvest though.
the problem I have with bagged soils is that they don't have any neem, or enough crab shell for a IPM, I grow in a redwood forest and I get mites, like four kinds of them, and they are there no matter what, so I utilize an IPM with neem, crab, and chitin rich insect mashings.

Sometime this week I'm gonna hit the hydro store and get my soil and amendments. Gonna run this without letting it compost not to spite you or the sticky lol. Because I wanna grow organic I'll post back here with pics and when it don't work you can say see shawn I told you man why don't you listen bro

Raised beds can be done indoor as well

shawn80j said:

Sometime this week I'm gonna hit the hydro store and get my soil and amendments. Gonna run this without letting it compost not to spite you or the sticky lol. Because I wanna grow organic I'll post back here with pics and when it don't work you can say see shawn I told you man why don't you listen bro

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Making mistakes sure does help gain experience and knowledge that then becomes intuitive, so hats off for insisting on doing it wrong. If organic soil and ferts costs too much, imagine wasting months of time and expense and the frustration of it all. With that being said, when your ph is too low and your nutes are locked out it will be time to experiment with compost teas, humic acid and dolomite lime, as well as foliar feeding and flushing each of those 7 gallon pots with 3 times the amount of water. Good luck. Maybe mix at half strength, and supplement later with liquids? You can still be organic with all liquid ferts.

calicocalyx said:

Making mistakes sure does help gain experience and knowledge that then becomes intuitive, so hats off for insisting on doing it wrong. If organic soil and ferts costs too much, imagine wasting months of time and expense and the frustration of it all. With that being said, when your ph is too low and your nutes are locked out it will be time to experiment with compost teas, humic acid and dolomite lime, as well as foliar feeding and flushing each of those 7 gallon pots with 3 times the amount of water. Good luck. Maybe mix at half strength, and supplement later with liquids? You can still be organic with all liquid ferts.

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I've made countless mistakes on my journey with this plant. When it come to growing this plant we over think it and over due it. 90% of the time my plants had problems it was my fault. Soil and water is so much more forgiving than hydro. I want you guys to stay tuned to this post I'll be posting pic and info on this little experiment to continue this post and come up with the ultimate final answer on if it can be done. I guess we can start now. I have my clones in solo cups with soil. They are rooted and need to be transplanted. I don't have the room at the moment. I'm in the process of setting up 3 new 6 inch raptors running off solis tek matrix ballast with hortilux hps bulbs. Have to go check the strains but I'm think I have quatum kush by tga dinafem cheese super lemon haze by green house sinmint by sin city white fire alien by og raskal and possibly others right now I'm in the process of pheno hunting the majority of those so as far as yeild and how these grow I'm un sure but I have induced flower on another set a couple weeks ago so we can compare from them. They are sitting in coco. Time to drink coffee I'll elaborate more later stayed tuned fellas

Good strains. Good to push boundaries and see first hand what does what. I have made just about every mistake that one could make growing this plant but it does start to become intuitive. My program has worked for years but then I think I got a bad batch of soil and locked out nutrients as well as I'm in a new house with new water that fluctuates with the seasons. Had to come here and figure the best moves to rectify. Soil was too hot, had to flush, added lime, made aerobic teas with humic acid, added cal-mag between ferts, foliar fed. Lost a month of growth, my flower room looks like shit, but learned/remembered a lot that I had taken for granted. On my way to mixing my own soils maybe even soil-less. Relying on bagged dirt made me a little lazy. Happy Frog was my standby for years but seems like the last few, they have been inconsistent. Jury might still be out on the Happy Frog, but I have switched to sunshine and now vermisoil. Never too old to learn.

calicocalyx said:

Good strains. Good to push boundaries and see first hand what does what. I have made just about every mistake that one could make growing this plant but it does start to become intuitive. My program has worked for years but then I think I got a bad batch of soil and locked out nutrients as well as I'm in a new house with new water that fluctuates with the seasons. Had to come here and figure the best moves to rectify. Soil was too hot, had to flush, added lime, made aerobic teas with humic acid, added cal-mag between ferts, foliar fed. Lost a month of growth, my flower room looks like shit, but learned/remembered a lot that I had taken for granted. On my way to mixing my own soils maybe even soil-less. Relying on bagged dirt made me a little lazy. Happy Frog was my standby for years but seems like the last few, they have been inconsistent. Jury might still be out on the Happy Frog, but I have switched to sunshine and now vermisoil. Never too old to learn.

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soil less?
Vermisoil is good man, but if you have access to that why not the vermifire? Course if you are amending past whats in the bag... I can see that.
I'm not pissing on your experiment brother, I've done plenty of "i know this ain't gonna work" experiments, we all have.
I've tried flowering plants in January before.
as well as spring time (works great until about may)
I've grown with zero amendments, I admit I even have bought some stupid products in the past (superthrive, trochoderma infested mychos, "sweeteners")
I get that you need/want your own experiments to verify the claims of others, in fact to a degree its admirable.
SO I wish you luck.
BUT if you don't wanna age, steer WAY clear of the water soluble nutrients (fish meal, blood meal, manures, etc)
You may be able to pull it off if you get some slllllloooow release stuff.

Welll, after all the bullshit on that last round, I'm a little hesitant to go with a hotter soil. Been considering the vermifire though, but like the control of adding my own stuff. Thinking about re using coco or perlite, but actually last night decided to build some bins to rotate the old indoor dirt. Get on like a year long rotation, I know I'll have to add nutrients back in. Right now my compost pile in the garden is freaking awesome with all the indoor dirt added, but I can only use so much in the veggie garden. I go through about 150 gallons of soil on each round, so starting to get out of hand. I will need 15 yards for my outdoor, so eventually I'll be just rotating what I got.

calicocalyx said:

Welll, after all the bullshit on that last round, I'm a little hesitant to go with a hotter soil. Been considering the vermifire though, but like the control of adding my own stuff. Thinking about re using coco or perlite, but actually last night decided to build some bins to rotate the old indoor dirt. Get on like a year long rotation, I know I'll have to add nutrients back in. Right now my compost pile in the garden is freaking awesome with all the indoor dirt added, but I can only use so much in the veggie garden. I go through about 150 gallons of soil on each round, so starting to get out of hand. I will need 15 yards for my outdoor, so eventually I'll be just rotating what I got.

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I realize this is for Organic growing, but I always have an indoor going. Just threw that out about the soil-less, what's been on my mind for the indoor.

calicocalyx said:

I realize this is for Organic growing, but I always have an indoor going. Just threw that out about the soil-less, what's been on my mind for the indoor.

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you can go soil-less, but with organics its kinda a moot thing... you need compost, ewc,and SOIL.
BUt if you want to grow organic-hydroponics. You could...you'd need a good selection of tea making products or bottled nutes...
It'd be interesting to see what you could do in a soil-less media with say comfrey and dandelion teas, or alfalfa teas, fish hydrosolate and such.
But why? it'd be sooo much easier and better results to use EWC, compost and so on.

shawn80j said:

Why will it not work? Won't the bacteria break it down even with plants in it. I'd think it won't break down as fast due to less mass and it hot composting. Not sure if super soil get hot while it breaks down?

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As soil "cooks" ph can drop to deathly acidic levels. Trust me!!! Cook your soil. In fact I cook my for 45 days maybe even 60 if I can.

Also. Ime living organic soil needs Half the pot size as compared to synthetics. Something about the rhiszophere being much efficient idk ? Anyone ? I currently run 3 gallon flowering pots for Clones with 3-4 week veg. With bottum manure/ compost layers. And too dressed with Ewc and a dry N blend.
Average yield is 3-4 zips per. Btw I am a 60 plant perpetual grower. It is possible and so much better to be living soil! I also recommend earth worm farms. Castings are the most used valuable product to an organic grower.

Btw op. i just finished the last page of the trhead. If you don't cook ammended soil. Anything with raw organic amendments. You will be very. Just imagine every single bit of green drying and crisping to death in a matter of 48 hours. There is no recovery from this! Nothing that can be considered medicine a least. Be wary of the power of super soil.
Read some literature. Teaming with microbes. True living organics are two great resources.

Bottum line is. Most important basic step to growing organically is cooking your dirt to turn it into black gold!!

And as greasemonkeyman has said bagged organic soil like ff. are cooked composted and usually even pasteurized in some cases. Not the same thing as we do.

Organics is all about carefull planning and preparations. It by no means should e considered an easy alternative to growing. Becaus it is not. I wake up knowing I know te tip of the iceberg. But having a grasp of the basics will make you successful.

Just to chime in here about that "heat". I've hand turned plenty of manure based compost piles and it can almost scald you in the middle of the pile. So much so that there is a lot written on using that heat with coils running through to heat up water. I actually have thought alot about using that combined with a solar water heater (glass or plastic box) running that hot water under my greenhouse. You can't turn a pile with hoses wrapped up in it though, and it might be easier with an on-demand propane water heater and pump. Could also put a woodstove below grade and thermal siphon the deaI. I try to max out anything that's more or less passive, cause the sound of generators suck and you know burning the whole fossil fuels. Sorry for the tangent OP. Bottom line, soil can get hot. But more importantly that ph dropping and pulling nitrogen away from the plant ain't cool either.

I plant straight into my Coot's mix with no issues.

Organic is too expensive? I get so sick of this topic. Source your ingredients responsibly, get your hands dirty, and organics is cheap.

I have 500 gallons in a town home. If you're going to do a large scale organic grow, you're going to need some soil - more is better. Personally, I think it's silly to have 72 pots. Like Flyhi said, I'd throw down a big bed or a couple if needed, put some blumats in there, and call it a day.

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greasemonkeymann said:

soil less?
Vermisoil is good man, but if you have access to that why not the vermifire? Course if you are amending past whats in the bag... I can see that.
I'm not pissing on your experiment brother, I've done plenty of "i know this ain't gonna work" experiments, we all have.
I've tried flowering plants in January before.
as well as spring time (works great until about may)
I've grown with zero amendments, I admit I even have bought some stupid products in the past (superthrive, trochoderma infested mychos, "sweeteners")
I get that you need/want your own experiments to verify the claims of others, in fact to a degree its admirable.
SO I wish you luck.
BUT if you don't wanna age, steer WAY clear of the water soluble nutrients (fish meal, blood meal, manures, etc)
You may be able to pull it off if you get some slllllloooow release stuff.

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Hey man I dig what your saying about the mycos, just wanted to say that I worked a property for a couple years that was watered from a stagnant pond. Every grow there for the past 5 years had issues with wilt on the big plants. ZHO and Rootzone are heavy on the tricodermas and it's my opinion that's what eliminated the wilt. And those were the biggest plants of the same strain that had been grown there (no trying to brag, just big plants tend to have issues that small ones don't). I don't regularly use the heavy tricoderma leaning mixes but I think they have their place. And yeah there are a lot of over hyped products out there. Trichodermas eat fungus in case anyone doesn't know.

Pattahabi said:

I plant straight into my Coot's mix with no issues.

Organic is too expensive? I get so sick of this topic. Source your ingredients responsibly, get your hands dirty, and organics is cheap.

I have 500 gallons in a town home. If you're going to do a large scale organic grow, you're going to need some soil - more is better. Personally, I think it's silly to have 72 pots. Like Flyhi said, I'd throw down a big bed or a couple if needed, put some blumats in there, and call it a day.

P-

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Hey I'm just getting to te part where I need to start recycle soil. Been organic for 6 months or so now. Any suggestions on breaking down soil. And rootball. ? I was thinking kiddie pools or large 55 gallon totes? Any suggestions

green_machine_two9er said:

Hey I'm just getting to te part where I need to start recycle soil. Been organic for 6 months or so now. Any suggestions on breaking down soil. And rootball. ? I was thinking kiddie pools or large 55 gallon totes? Any suggestions

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if you aren't going no-till, you can throw them in a compost pile and they melt in about 4-5 months.
If you re-amended you'll need to age the soil, but if not, you can use it immediately. A lot depends on your original recipe as well.
You REALLY don't need to break up the rootball though, i'd leave it, in fact the existing soil web would be damaged if you did, but, either way...
Whats in your soil?

greasemonkeymann said:

if you aren't going no-till, you can throw them in a compost pile and they melt in about 4-5 months.
If you re-amended you'll need to age the soil, but if not, you can use it immediately. A lot depends on your original recipe as well.
You REALLY don't need to break up the rootball though, i'd leave it, in fact the existing soil web would be damaged if you did, but, either way...
Whats in your soil?

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A lot I think. 1/4 each ffof. Perlite. Coir. Ewc
Ammended with
Greensand
Oyster and crab shell
Dolo lime
Blood. Bone. Kelp. Feather. Aflfalfa meals.
Rock phosphate
Gypsum
Humic
AZomite
Bulb food
Chicken compost
And brown rice
First roun went amazing! I also do a bottum compost/
Perlite layer. And top blood meal for longer flowering sativas. And bark mulch over everything.

And yeah I don't think no till will work for me. So just let everything sit for 4 months and let root ball break up naturally? I was thinking just feather and blood meal for reameding. For the N to help things break down? Thanks for input!

green_machine_two9er said:

A lot I think. 1/4 each ffof. Perlite. Coir. Ewc
Ammended with
Greensand
Oyster and crab shell
Dolo lime
Blood. Bone. Kelp. Feather. Aflfalfa meals.
Rock phosphate
Gypsum
Humic
AZomite
Bulb food
Chicken compost
And brown rice
First roun went amazing! I also do a bottum compost/
Perlite layer. And top blood meal for longer flowering sativas. And bark mulch over everything.

And yeah I don't think no till will work for me. So just let everything sit for 4 months and let root ball break up naturally? I was thinking just feather and blood meal for reameding. For the N to help things break down? Thanks for input!

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For composting, a lot depends on environmental conditions. There is a bacteria mix you can buy to help promote breaking down the organic matter, I can't remember cause it's been awhile. Heat and time and good moisture levels.

green_machine_two9er said:

Hey I'm just getting to te part where I need to start recycle soil. Been organic for 6 months or so now. Any suggestions on breaking down soil. And rootball. ? I was thinking kiddie pools or large 55 gallon totes? Any suggestions

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This is what I have done. Not saying right or wrong. When I was breaking up my soil and reusing, I would leave the majority of the roots in the soil. Maybe if there was a big glob I might pull it out, but basically the decomposing roots will be food for the microbes. One thing you do not want to do is let the soil dry out completely. Keep it as moist as a wrung out sponge. So if you are going to store it, either put it in some rubbermaids or plant cover crop, if you are going to use it right away, I might break it up in a kiddie pool. God knows I've used the hell out of those little plastic pools lol!

Peace!

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