krugman, the brilliant genius that he is

DrFever

New Member
OK, now lets say the Germans Had bombed us to ashes instead, and the Japanese had decimated our navy. How much of that government spending do you think would have been helpful then? Still think we would have been on top? The Germans probably spent more than we did as a percent of GDP, how come they weren't the top dog? You think it has anything to do with being destroyed and having no factories in which to produce things?
exactly fckin germans had everyone on the run it is said if germany took the war to usa usa would of got there asses kicked and mame as usa and Ussr were allies sure usa was sending supplies to them via north route but when the german boats started dropping your boats usa stopped all shipments
 

DrFever

New Member
The USA had the luxury of being the only major combatant that had no fighting on its domestic territory. As such the USA was able to mobilize its huge resources and economy and thus produce more armaments than any other nation.

By the end of the war the USA had created the largest naval force and air force in world history. Again, not being directly attacked, the USA never developed a major fighting army as compared to Germany or Russia or even France. The USA army was involved in significant fighting in a few rather limited engagements such as North Africa (performed poorly), Sicily and Italy (better performance but nothing dramatic, just a long attrition battle), North France (performed adequately against second rate, immobile German troops), and Belgium (poor performance in the Battle of the Bulge), and Germany proper (lop sided battles against immobile, demoralized, cut off German troops). Late in the war, the USA army engaged some Japanese forces in battle, such as at Okinawa. IMO the USA army was never really tested in WWII against a major, well armed foe. By the time the USA got into Europe the Germans had no air cover and very limited mobility. It is a miracle Germany did not collapse more quickly, say late 1944.
The USA Marine corp performed exceptionally in WWII, virtually defining the amphibious assault for the war.

IMO the USA air force performed much better than any similar force on earth during 1943-45. Unlike the British, the American AF took on the German defences during daylight and the bombers generally sought out military targets. The British in contrast gave up on day light bombing (until late in the war) preferring the easier process of targeting civilians for bombing at night.
The USA naval forces were nothing short of phenomenal. Outnumbered in numerous battles the USA forces nonetheless won almost every engagement against well run, well equipped Japanese forces. The USA submarine battles against Japan were also exceptional.

Overall you could say that the USA did about 90% of the fighting for the Allies in the Pacific (combined naval, air and land). Against Germany the USA did about 45% of the air campaign, 10% of the land campaign, and probably 5% of the naval.

Other than direct fighting the USA produced vast amounts of food, arms and other goods for its allies. Huge amounts of goods were shipped to Russia, China, Britain and others. Britain relied almost entirely on American loans and oil to stay in the war after 1940. Russia relied largely on American trucks, boots and food to keep their armies mobile after early 1943.

In summary it is unlikely the allies could have defeated Germany in a conventional war without American help. Likely the war would have ground down to a stalemate by 1944 with Germany still along the English Channel, controlling Italy and probably somewhere around Odessa/Minsk/Riga in Russia. The Pacific war was a hopeless cause for Japan and even a major victory such as Midway would not have saved Japan.

The fact is the Germans were the best at warfare just like every other army that faced them we had to learn the hard way and got our butts kicked at Kasserine. The Germans however were stopped short of their goals by some very tough fighting US GI's. They fought fiercely in Tunesia and in Sicily stole the show from the British where they performed brilliantly. I give them an A+ for the D day landings certainly at Omaha and how they held together in the bocage fighting that was more like WWI. The terrain in Italy was awful and the Germans there were the best I doubt that the Russians would have done any better there. AS far as Anzio I agree with digging in and waiting for the German counter attack rather than marching on Rome as it was the USA Naval guns played a vital role in stopping the German attack what might of happened if we were all spread out from the beach to Rome.
 

WillyBagseed

Active Member
record profits and high unemployment... Why would a corporation want to lower the unemployment rate when they have a huge pool of potential employees to pull from, many who will work for less than the worth of the job... Anybody remember when unemployment in the 90's was near 3.5% and going down? Corporations and the fed boohood their way into driving unemployment back up.. ooo noooos we will have inflation......... it is ok for corporations but not for the citizen eh? No regulation and under regulated industry does nothing but make more profit for the Corporation, board members and stock holders. Blue collar workers still get it in the shorts when Corporations make huge monay....

Look at Verizon http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/08/08/290205/verizon-strike-profits/

Don't tell me deregulation = profits = good
that is a half truth, yes it is good... again to the few, not the people who actually did the work building the company.
 

jeff f

New Member
OK, now lets say the Germans Had bombed us to ashes instead, and the Japanese had decimated our navy. How much of that government spending do you think would have been helpful then? Still think we would have been on top? The Germans probably spent more than we did as a percent of GDP, how come they weren't the top dog? You think it has anything to do with being destroyed and having no factories in which to produce things?
duhhhhhhhhhhh
 

sync0s

Well-Known Member
And what is all of that? Direct government spending? Wouldn't we call that "stimulus"?

Cmon guys, what was ww2 for our economy? It was in the most simplistic terms a massive government spending program - it was stimulus.
No, you skipped the most important part. Figures...

The workforce was heavily depleted. THAT IS WHY UNEMPLOYMENT DROPPED.

Furthermore, aren't we running a more expensive war now? I mean, the total cost of WW2 was $280billion of 1940 money, which with inflation is $4.3 trillion. Iraq and Afghanistan alone has already cost us more than $1.7 trillion. The numbers for WW2 are factoring in medical costs and VA benefits after the war, a number that has not been added on to our current wars.

With that knowledge, how come Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as a huge stimulus and trillion dollar bailouts are not helping our economy, but actually seem to be making it worse?
 

Charlie Ventura

Active Member
I didn't watch it, but ww2 did in fact pull us out of the Great Depression.

edit: you know, it shouldn't take Krugman to tell you that either... You realize the unemployment rate went from over 14% to 2-3% during WW2 right? Or is it really true that the partisan eye sees only what it wants to see?
But wait! You mean it wasn't all of those "shovel ready" CCC jobs? It wasn't the TVA? It wasn't taking us off of the gold standard? It wasn't building the Welfare State?

If not, then what in the Hell is Obama doing with our money?

 
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