krugman, the brilliant genius that he is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gayFbHxkbg

first he admits the war got us out of the great depression, then suggests we might want to look for aliens.....

after all it was an episode of twilight zone.....hehe

this guy passes as a genius to the left? blahhahahahahah

and listen to the nitwit interviewer, digging a ditch and filling it back in is "productive"

I didn't watch it, but ww2 did in fact pull us out of the Great Depression.

edit: you know, it shouldn't take Krugman to tell you that either... You realize the unemployment rate went from over 14% to 2-3% during WW2 right? Or is it really true that the partisan eye sees only what it wants to see?

mame said:

I didn't watch it, but ww2 did in fact pull us out of the Great Depression.

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i thought it was the brilliance of fdr and his social spending programs?

if we only had a war......

maybe you should watch the video

jeff f said:

i thought it was the brilliance of fdr and his social spending programs?

if we only had a war......

maybe you should watch the video

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during the time FDR was president unemployment went from 25% to 14% prior to the war, which is the fastest gains in history.

mame said:

I didn't watch it, but ww2 did in fact pull us out of the Great Depression.

edit: you know, it shouldn't take Krugman to tell you that either... You realize the unemployment rate went from over 14% to 2-3% during WW2 right? Or is it really true that the partisan eye sees only what it wants to see?

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The reason why unemployment dropped: 16,000,000 soldiers overseas to 134,000,000 citizens (12%), huge demand for military weapons, vehicles, and ammunition. /the workforce was so depleted that woman found an opportunity to return to work.

sync0s said:

The reason why unemployment dropped: 16,000,000 soldiers overseas to 134,000,000 citizens (12%), huge demand for military weapons, vehicles, and ammunition. /the workforce was so depleted that woman found an opportunity to return to work.

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And what is all of that? Direct government spending? Wouldn't we call that "stimulus"?

Cmon guys, what was ww2 for our economy? It was in the most simplistic terms a massive government spending program - it was stimulus.

mame said:

And what is all of that? Direct government spending? Wouldn't we call that "stimulus"?

Cmon guys, what was ww2 for our economy? It was in the most simplistic terms a massive government spending program - it was stimulus.

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the problem with your statement is that we didnt borrow all that money, then continue to wage a decade long war spread out across the middle east.

cause when you borrow its not a stimulus, its a debt, also following your logic the greates improvement in unemployment rates would be the hollocaust cause it opened up so many jobs for nice aryan people

Prefontaine said:

the problem with your statement is that we didnt borrow all that money, then continue to wage a decade long war spread out across the middle east.

cause when you borrow its not a stimulus, its a debt, also following your logic the greates improvement in unemployment rates would be the hollocaust cause it opened up so many jobs for nice aryan people

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actually we DID borrow all of that money, our nation was in debt at ~124% of GDP by the end of the war... Tell me, what is our Debt to GDP ratio atm?

mame said:

And what is all of that? Direct government spending? Wouldn't we call that "stimulus"?

Cmon guys, what was ww2 for our economy? It was in the most simplistic terms a massive government spending program - it was stimulus.

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sillyness.

ww2 was "necessary" work. if we would have made people make all those things, tanks, planes, bullets, to have them sit in warehouses, the economic stimulus would have been zero.

according to your "God" , i will call him krugman, even if the aliens never showed up, our economy would be booming.....yes, and the moon is made of green cheese.

is there any better example of keynes than europe? last time i checked, they were falling apart. yep, just looked, still falling apart.

AND they rely mostly on us to provide military. sure they have forces, but they are extremely limited, and we constantly have to bail them out.

mame, it must be really great living on your island.

ww2 was "necessary" work. if we would have made people make all those things, tanks, planes, bullets, to have them sit in warehouses, the economic stimulus would have been zero.

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Infrastructure is not necessary? There is plenty of spending that the government can do RIGHT NOW that'd help our economy in both the short and long run.

edit: The Eurozone is having a self fulfilling crisis that has to do more with the Euro and the ECB(monetary policy) than it does Keynesianism.

edit2: and besides, you're falling into the stereotyping again - assuming keynesianism is just a broad term for an economic policy of "tax and spend" - but it isn't that simple at all.

mame said:

actually we DID borrow all of that money, our nation was in debt at ~124% of GDP by the end of the war... Tell me, what is our Debt to GDP ratio atm?

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so if we just get our gdp/debt ratio right, we should get out of this no problem?

and one HUGE problem with your "theory", at the same time fdr "stimulated" the economy by jumping into ww2, he wasnt trying to shut tank manufacturing et al manufacturing down. your current govt is doing just that.

so even if ofucknuts says lets exploit our resources, natural and otherwise, we still wont be able to harvest the energy, oil, gas, coal, other, that is needed to bring us out of this because his epa wont let you do that.

you really should get out of the ivory tower more and talk to someone who runs a mine, or drilling rig, or sawmill. the govt planners are constantly trying to shut productive business down.

my state alone has dnr (dep nat resources) epa, and dep (dep env. protection). and they all have cops, they all have 100% enforcemnt capabilities, they all have over lapping duties, and they all get a govt check.....provided by the workers and owners of the companies they are trying to shut down.

i have seen the enemy, and he is us.

right now we are at 65% debt to income, and you think that borrowing more money will help us pay off the debt we currently owe? you see we dont have any battle these days where thousands of americans die in one day, so those jobs that were freed up by WW2, are not being freed up, also i should point the horrible working camps during FDRs presidency, also see how the debt doesnt really take any big dips since the 70s depression.

you see a "stimulus" is a fake bubble, that bursts as soon as you stop pouring money into it, this is because the money you pour into it quickly disperses throughout the world, the US government only gets a small percentage of that back in taxes, and as soon as the government stops the stimulus, people lose their jobs,

jeff f said:

so if we just get our gdp/debt ratio right, we should get out of this no problem?

and one HUGE problem with your "theory", at the same time fdr "stimulated" the economy by jumping into ww2, he wasnt trying to shut tank manufacturing et al manufacturing down. your current govt is doing just that.

so even if ofucknuts says lets exploit our resources, natural and otherwise, we still wont be able to harvest the energy, oil, gas, coal, other, that is needed to bring us out of this because his epa wont let you do that.

you really should get out of the ivory tower more and talk to someone who runs a mine, or drilling rig, or sawmill. the govt planners are constantly trying to shut productive business down.

my state alone has dnr (dep nat resources) epa, and dep (dep env. protection). and they all have cops, they all have 100% enforcemnt capabilities, they all have over lapping duties, and they all get a govt check.....provided by the workers and owners of the companies they are trying to shut down.

i have seen the enemy, and he is us.

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I got one for yuh, placing a 600 cubic yard footing to support the foundation of a major parking garage in seatac washington, placing that concrete directly into a hole in the grounds, but when i tested the air content and plasticity of that conrete I was not allowed to get any of that slurry on the ground, even though not 50 feet from me they were pouring that same concrete into a big ass hole.

sound logical?

mame said:

I didn't watch it, but ww2 did in fact pull us out of the Great Depression.

edit: you know, it shouldn't take Krugman to tell you that either... You realize the unemployment rate went from over 14% to 2-3% during WW2 right? Or is it really true that the partisan eye sees only what it wants to see?

Click to expand...

Sort of. The fact that there was EXTREME demand for manufactured products to use for rebuilding all of Europe and Great Britain and parts of Japan and Russia and pretty much only one country that had a great manufacturing base (The USA) it pretty much made us the monopoly for just about everything for the next generation. We made like 70% of the world's manufactured goods in the late 40's and 50's. When you are the only game in town, its easy bein' cheesy.

NoDrama said:

Sort of. The fact that there was EXTREME demand for manufactured products to use for rebuilding all of Europe and Great Britain and parts of Japan and Russia and pretty much only one country that had a great manufacturing base (The USA) it pretty much made us the monopoly for just about everything for the next generation. We made like 70% of the world's manufactured goods in the late 40's and 50's. When you are the only game in town, its easy bein' cheesy.

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so lets go break all their shit and we should be good to go

I have your infrastructure right here, i was inspecting work on columns to support an overpass for I-5 just south of olympia, wa. on this job the contractor had hired me to provide verification testing against the DOT samples and testing being performed, I was making 12.50/hr and sampling on my own, for every 10 samples I took (minimum one from every truck load of concrete, and 4 samples from each truck tested by DOT) the DOT inspection crew took 1 sample from the first second and then from every fourth or so truck, they had an engineer monitoring the sampling, one inspector watching the concrete enter the pump truck, one person watching the concrete leave the end of the pump truck boom, and two inspectors to perform their testing. all of whom make a minimum of 18/hr and have full benefits being that they are state employees.

another example, I was making 12.50/hr at this time as well, performing onsite materials testing of concrete beams for a recent runway project at Sea Tac airport, the sweeping the road where trucks pull in was making 36/hr does that sound like your doing society a favor by increasing infrastructure spending, you see back in FDRs time, you just made a labor camp and paid people pennies for their work.

NoDrama said:

Sort of. The fact that there was EXTREME demand for manufactured products to use for rebuilding all of Europe and Great Britain and parts of Japan and Russia and pretty much only one country that had a great manufacturing base (The USA) it pretty much made us the monopoly for just about everything for the next generation. We made like 70% of the world's manufactured goods in the late 40's and 50's. When you are the only game in town, its easy bein' cheesy.

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That doesn't change that it was government spending; You're just saying that we managed to make that spending useful and that we had no competitors because everyone else was in ruins. There are plenty of things we could spend on that are useful that will help the economy reach full employment while at the same time avoiding global competition; Infrastructure is mostly if not completely domestic in terms of labor, etc and is the obvious candidate due to the labor and material requirements that tend to effect several sectors of the economy... Dont give me that, "we can't afford it" excuse either because reaching full employment is the single most important thing we can do for our fiscal situation atm.

i come to the harsh conclusion is that only way america will prosper again is having a war in which 15 to 20 percent of the population dies thus creating employment
what does usa really make nothing but trouble in reality litterally no export jobs are long gone , and with usa's logo of i sue you sue most students aren;t entering the construction trade or others in the same field but corperate law where the money is yes i believe usa is a great nation deep down inside but they got to stay away from other countrys affairs yes i believe if a country invades another but fck enoughs enough when you got hunger . homeless and ppl without eletricity fck the rest of the world and start worrying about your own

mame said:

That doesn't change that it was government spending; You're just saying that we managed to make that spending useful and that we had no competitors because everyone else was in ruins.

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OK, now lets say the Germans Had bombed us to ashes instead, and the Japanese had decimated our navy. How much of that government spending do you think would have been helpful then? Still think we would have been on top? The Germans probably spent more than we did as a percent of GDP, how come they weren't the top dog? You think it has anything to do with being destroyed and having no factories in which to produce things?