Keystone XL and Those Fracking Dems..

Padawanbater2 said:

It's more expensive for TransCanada to ship it overseas than it is to sell it to American refineries is what I gathered from that article, and the US is the main importer of Canadian oil. I think the biggest issue is the GHG's the pipeline will create, something like 70% more than through traditional oil refining

Still, the price of gas won't change, and if it does it'll be negligible at best

Click to expand...

Key Facts on Keystone XL
Energy Security: Tar Sand will not Reduce Dependence on Foreign OilKeystone XL will not lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil, but transport Canadian oil to American refineries for export to overseas markets.

• Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
• Reducing demand for oil is the best way to improve our energy security. U.S. demand for oil has been declining since 2007. New fuel-efficiency standards mean that this trend will continue once the economy gets back on track. In fact, the Energy Deptartment report on KeystoneXL found that decreasing demand through fuel efficiency is the only way to reduce mid-east oil imports with or without the pipeline.

More info:

• “Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed”, Oil Change International

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers

• By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans.
• TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”
• Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.
• According to an independent analysis U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009 could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. At least $500 million of the added expense would come from the Canadian market manipulation.

http://tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/

Canadian companies backing the Keystone XL – touted as enhancing US energy security with a big new surge of imported Canadian oil – actually expect it to supply more lucrative Gulf Coast export markets as well as raise Midwest oil prices by reducing “oversupply” in that region.
These little-publicized findings are contained in the studies and testimony of experts working for TransCanada, the company that wants to build the pipeline from Alberta’s tar sands across America’s heartland to Gulf Coast refineries.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/2012/0309/Inside-the-Keystone-pipeline-How-much-would-it-really-help-US-consumers

Padawanbater2 said:

It's more expensive for TransCanada to ship it overseas than it is to sell it to American refineries is what I gathered from that article, and the US is the main importer of Canadian oil. I think the biggest issue is the GHG's the pipeline will create, something like 70% more than through traditional oil refining

Still, the price of gas won't change, and if it does it'll be negligible at best

Click to expand...

Padawanbater2 said:

It's more expensive for TransCanada to ship it overseas than it is to sell it to American refineries is what I gathered from that article, and the US is the main importer of Canadian oil. I think the biggest issue is the GHG's the pipeline will create, something like 70% more than through traditional oil refining

Still, the price of gas won't change, and if it does it'll be negligible at best

Click to expand...

Does the US economy really need all that oil?
No. America is in the midst of an oil and gas boom, and on track to becoming an energy superpower. Most of the tar sands oil would eventually be exported, though there are plans to develop new markets for tar sands crude in the north-east. Oil prices are down because there is a glut in getting product to refineries.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/31/keystone-xl-oil-pipeline-everything-you-need-to-know

ChesusRice said:

Key Facts on Keystone XL
Energy Security: Tar Sand will not Reduce Dependence on Foreign OilKeystone XL will not lessen U.S. dependence on foreign oil, but transport Canadian oil to American refineries for export to overseas markets.

• Keystone XL is an export pipeline. According to presentations to investors, Gulf Coast refiners plan to refine the cheap Canadian crude supplied by the pipeline into diesel and other products for export to Europe and Latin America. Proceeds from these exports are earned tax-free. Much of the fuel refined from the pipeline’s heavy crude oil will never reach U.S. drivers’ tanks.
• Reducing demand for oil is the best way to improve our energy security. U.S. demand for oil has been declining since 2007. New fuel-efficiency standards mean that this trend will continue once the economy gets back on track. In fact, the Energy Deptartment report on KeystoneXL found that decreasing demand through fuel efficiency is the only way to reduce mid-east oil imports with or without the pipeline.

More info:

• “Exporting Energy Security: Keystone XL Exposed”, Oil Change International

Gas prices: Keystone XL will increase gas prices for Americans—Especially Farmers

• By draining Midwestern refineries of cheap Canadian crude into export-oriented refineries in the Gulf Coast, Keystone XL will increase the cost of gas for Americans.
• TransCanada’s 2008 Permit Application states “Existing markets for Canadian heavy crude, principally PADD II [U.S. Midwest], are currently oversupplied, resulting in price discounting for Canadian heavy crude oil. Access to the USGC [U.S. Gulf Coast] via the Keystone XL Pipeline is expected to strengthen Canadian crude oil pricing in [the Midwest] by removing this oversupply. This is expected to increase the price of heavy crude to the equivalent cost of imported crude. The resultant increase in the price of heavy crude is estimated to provide an increase in annual revenue to the Canadian producing industry in 2013 of US $2 billion to US $3.9 billion.”
• Independent analysis of these figures found this would increase per-gallon prices by 20 cents/gallon in the Midwest.
• According to an independent analysis U.S. farmers, who spent $12.4 billion on fuel in 2009 could see expenses rise to $15 billion or higher in 2012 or 2013 if the pipeline goes through. At least $500 million of the added expense would come from the Canadian market manipulation.

http://tarsandsaction.org/spread-the-word/key-facts-keystone-xl/

Click to expand...

Not a single link in that whole article works, they all direct to nothingness. i'e there is NO evidence, at all.
Is it a coincidence that Cheezus bought it all hook line and sinker? Would you expect anything else?

Padawanbater2 said:

To be clear, I'm still opposed to it

No benefit to America, no jobs for Americans, bad for the environment

But it'll still probably happen, we'll see in January, then we'll get to see how many of these predictions come true

Click to expand...

In the long run it is irrelevant. The Canadians will build a pipeline to the sea and export their crude eventually if the keystone pipeline isnt extended
IN the meantime. I am enjoying the cheaper gasoline due to the oil glut

ChesusRice said:

In the long run it is irrelevant. The Canadians will build a pipeline to the sea and export their crude eventually if the keystone pipeline isnt extended
IN the meantime. I am enjoying the cheaper gasoline due to the oil glut

Click to expand...

you mean cheaper gasoline due to OBAMA.

UncleBuck said:

you mean cheaper gasoline due to OBAMA.

Click to expand...

Obama only does bad things.
Dont go off script

Chesus

Do you understand your citations are from a radical left wing activist group?

UncleBuck said:

yeah, i'll throw them in there for good measure.

last time i built something like this, i didn't. i still needed a sledgehammer and a sawzall to take the thing down after 3+ years.

Click to expand...

You dont really need the ones between your rafters and ridgeboard. But the hurricane clips between your top plates and rafters will prevent sag.
When I think of Colorado I think of snow. Your pitch is pretty low so your static load is going to be higher.
So my reccomendations would be. Hurricane clips on all the rafters and doug fir cross bracing between the long horizontal walls.

ChesusRice said:

You dont really need the ones between your rafters and ridgeboard. But the hurricane clips between your top plates and rafters will prevent sag.
.

Click to expand...

Actually, hurricane ties don't do a thing for sag (deflection)
They're designed for uplift resistance.

jahbrudda said:

Chesus

Do you understand your citations are from a radical left wing activist group?

Click to expand...

you categorize NASA the same way, so your opinion is worthless. especially since you consider jared taylor and victor thorn to be reliable sources of information, beenthere.

ChesusRice said:

You dont really need the ones between your rafters and ridgeboard. But the hurricane clips between your top plates and rafters will prevent sag.
When I think of Colorado I think of snow. Your pitch is pretty low so your static load is going to be higher.
So my reccomendations would be. Hurricane clips on all the rafters and doug fir cross bracing between the long horizontal walls.

Click to expand...

the thing with snow is that if it is cold enough to snow, then i have to be out there every few hours to unfreeze/replace the chickens' water anyway. so i just take a broom and sweep off any snow build up.

i did that in portland earlier this year with a greenhouse i had with a PVC and 6 mil plastic roof, it stayed intact just fine through 8-10 inches of wet, heavy snow.

i don't think i'll add any collar ties or gusset any rafters with plywood, but i might. probably should since it can get real windy here.

UncleBuck said:

you categorize NASA the same way, so your opinion is worthless. especially since you consider jared taylor and victor thorn to be reliable sources of information, beenthere.

Click to expand...

What a citation we have here



Participants http://tarsandsaction.org

The following list of people have chosen to risk arrest on February 13th to call on President Obama to confront the challenge of climate change, beginning with stopping the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline.

• Abbi Kleinschmidt – farmer from a long line of farmers and ranchers, whose home would be crossed by the Keystone XL pipeline in Nebraska.

• Adam Werbach – Co-founder of the sharing startup yerdle.com. A lifelong environmental activist, Werbach founded the Sierra Student Coalition and was later elected president of the Sierra Club at age 23

• Allison Chin – President of the Sierra Club Board of Directors

• Andre Carothers – Chairman of the Board, Rainforest Action Network

• Julian Bond – Co-founder, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, Former Executive Director of NAACP

• Bill McKibben – Author, activist, and co-founder of 350.org

• Bob Haas – professor of poetry and poetics at the University of California, Berkeley, and former poet laureate of the United States
• 
  
• Brenda Hillman – Olivia C. Filippi Professor of Poetry, St. Mary’s College in California

jahbrudda said:

What a citation we have here



Participants http://tarsandsaction.org

The following list of people have chosen to risk arrest on February 13th to call on President Obama to confront the challenge of climate change, beginning with stopping the Keystone XL tar sands pipeline.

• 
  
  
  • Abbi Kleinschmidt – farmer from a long line of farmers and ranchers, whose home would be crossed by the Keystone XL pipeline in Nebraska.

• 
  
  
  • Adam Werbach – Co-founder of the sharing startup yerdle.com. A lifelong environmental activist, Werbach founded the Sierra Student Coalition and was later elected president of the Sierra Club at age 23

• 
  
  
  • Allison Chin – President of the Sierra Club Board of Directors

• 
  
  
  • Andre Carothers – Chairman of the Board, Rainforest Action Network

• 
  
  
  • Julian Bond – Co-founder, Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, Former Executive Director of NAACP

• 
  
  
  • Bill McKibben – Author, activist, and co-founder of 350.org

• 
  
  
  • Bob Haas – professor of poetry and poetics at the University of California, Berkeley, and former poet laureate of the United States
  • Brenda Hillman – Olivia C. Filippi Professor of Poetry, St. Mary’s College in California

Click to expand...

i could give two shits, beenthere.

i am just pointing out that you discount NASA as a leftist/progressive/liberal/democrat conspiracy group, but you have no problem accepting white supremacists like jared taylor or holocaust deniers like victor thorn at their word.

i know that's embarrassing, but no one forced you to make such an ass out of yourself like that. you did it to yourself.