Inequality and the USA: A nation in denial?

R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
if you focus on controlling only that which you can control, things will suddenly start seeming oh so much more attainable.
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I disagree.

I have found that if you rule out everything you know you can't do or reach, there isn't much left to work with or hope for.

Everything we do toward material acquisition, either requires cooperation from others (who have materials to trade), or is illegal (because you can't just force someone to give you their stuff; you need them to agree to it).

Although i do agree that it's better for personal morale, to try not to think about any of the stuff you can't fix without help ("want something done right? do it yourself." The problem comes when you realize you can't do everything yourself, and those who can, aren't willing to help, usually for some stupid ideological reason...).

But what kind of life is it, if you have to go through it trying not to think about all the stuff you can't change, and settling for whatever remains? That seems contrary to the aforementioned "american dream." In fact, Carlin specifically stated, those who don't or can't think about how badly they're being fucked by the system every day, are exactly what "The Big Club" wants. Those people are the ones mildly rewarded, while the rest of us critical thinkers get cut off from the access to opportunities, allegedly provided by participating in "society."
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
Against the Patriot Act? Obama added cell phones and put it on steroids, yet you still support him....
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obama only reauthorized a very few sections of the patriot act, which is the exact opposite of "putting it on steroids".

and i have never heard you make a peep about russ feingold, the only senator to vote against the patriot act, who lost his seat to a tea partier that takes government bailouts to prop up his business.

you're all empty words.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
obama only reauthorized a very few sections of the patriot act, which is the exact opposite of "putting it on steroids".

and i have never heard you make a peep about russ feingold, the only senator to vote against the patriot act, who lost his seat to a tea partier that takes government bailouts to prop up his business.

you're all empty words.
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Why would you hear anything I say? I think you are a liar and a POS, I would never talk to you....

For others here who have a little common sense. Would adding cell phones to the Patriot Act be considered just a re-authorization or maybe a big deal? I mean... considering most of our calls are now by cell instead of a landline, it seems this was crucial to the nanny state. Notice Buck is defending it and brushing it off as nothing.

Partisan politics is the nut low. Idiots like Buck can't even say, yeah, disappointed with Obama over that one, he has to lie, deflect and re-direct.
 
SmokeyDan

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
reasonevangelist said:
I disagree.

I have found that if you rule out everything you know you can't do or reach, there isn't much left to work with or hope for.

Everything we do toward material acquisition, either requires cooperation from others (who have materials to trade), or is illegal (because you can't just force someone to give you their stuff; you need them to agree to it).

Although i do agree that it's better for personal morale, to try not to think about any of the stuff you can't fix without help ("want something done right? do it yourself." The problem comes when you realize you can't do everything yourself, and those who can, aren't willing to help, usually for some stupid ideological reason...).

But what kind of life is it, if you have to go through it trying not to think about all the stuff you can't change, and settling for whatever remains? That seems contrary to the aforementioned "american dream." In fact, Carlin specifically stated, those who don't or can't think about how badly they're being fucked by the system every day, are exactly what "The Big Club" wants. Those people are the ones mildly rewarded, while the rest of us critical thinkers get cut off from the access to opportunities, allegedly provided by participating in "society."
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First of all, I dig your concept of a parenthetical paragraph.

As to your point. No single human ever who was not a king ever had it within his power to affect great change in society. Some have, but the odds are better that you'll win the lottery than that you'll be the next Gandhi or MLK. But even those guys didn't do it on their own.

If you feel strongly, go stand on a street corner and preach your message. Gain followers and start a social revolution. I do think the atmosphere is becoming ripe for such a movement. We but need someone great to lead it.

Some Arab hot dog vendor or some such set himself on fire and it changed the middle east.

That could be you.

But I think the intent of the post you replied to was that if you control you, wake up every day go to work, do a great job as best you can, keep an eye out for opportunities as they come and handle yourself with dignity good things are far more likely to happen for you.
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
SmokeyDan said:
First of all, I dig your concept of a parenthetical paragraph.

As to your point. No single human ever who was not a king ever had it within his power to affect great change in society. Some have, but the odds are better that you'll win the lottery than that you'll be the next Gandhi or MLK. But even those guys didn't do it on their own.

If you feel strongly, go stand on a street corner and preach your message. Gain followers and start a social revolution. I do think the atmosphere is becoming ripe for such a movement. We but need someone great to lead it.

Some Arab hot dog vendor or some such set himself on fire and it changed the middle east.

That could be you.

But I think the intent of the post you replied to was that if you control you, wake up every day go to work, do a great job as best you can, keep an eye out for opportunities as they come and handle yourself with dignity good things are far more likely to happen for you.
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Well, my point was that "doing all you can do" doesn't change what you can't change; which is why i disagreed that doing your best, doesn't necessarily make dreams become attainable. Although we can certainly choose to delude ourselves to believe it will, in order to manufacture the motivation required to persist in futility.

I agree though, most of the big changes require a cooperative effort among many people, and do not come from a single determined person acting against the status quo.

I don't play the lotto, because the odds are too slim. It's almost guaranteed not to work out. I'd rather put that money toward something i know i can achieve, even if it pales in comparison to the "possibility" of winning the lotto.

Further, i don't necessarily want to be "the next icon." Instead, i want to help spread ideas to many people, so that someone more capable than i, can have the opportunity to use those ideas in ways i can't. One of the problems i see is that there's too much "shotgun," too much "spray and pray," and not enough sniping and ambushing. Most of the people who share the more evolved ideals, are disorganized, not acting as a unit, not on the same page. Maybe not even in the same book. If we could gather a list of objectives and work in unison to apply sufficient pressure to the right points, while eliminating wasted energy... we could change things quite rapidly. But there are copious reasons why that isn't happening, which continue to make it unlikely that it ever will.
 
SmokeyDan

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
reasonevangelist said:
Well, my point was that "doing all you can do" doesn't change what you can't change; which is why i disagreed that doing your best, doesn't necessarily make dreams become attainable. Although we can certainly choose to delude ourselves to believe it will, in order to manufacture the motivation required to persist in futility.

I agree though, most of the big changes require a cooperative effort among many people, and do not come from a single determined person acting against the status quo.

I don't play the lotto, because the odds are too slim. It's almost guaranteed not to work out. I'd rather put that money toward something i know i can achieve, even if it pales in comparison to the "possibility" of winning the lotto.

Further, i don't necessarily want to be "the next icon." Instead, i want to help spread ideas to many people, so that someone more capable than i, can have the opportunity to use those ideas in ways i can't. One of the problems i see is that there's too much "shotgun," too much "spray and pray," and not enough sniping and ambushing. Most of the people who share the more evolved ideals, are disorganized, not acting as a unit, not on the same page. Maybe not even in the same book. If we could gather a list of objectives and work in unison to apply sufficient pressure to the right points, while eliminating wasted energy... we could change things quite rapidly. But there are copious reasons why that isn't happening, which continue to make it unlikely that it ever will.
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Part of the problem is people like UncleBuck.

You can happen to share many of his beliefs on the way things ought to be. But if you happen to disagree with him on any one of a number of issues, he'd rather obstruct everything you do and be divisive.

There are UncleBuck ' s on both sides.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
I was, and I will again. The difference is, you'll be there with me next time, unlike now when all you do is assign blame to one party.

I noticed you didn't dispute any of the points I made, yet you still beat the party line drum. Yes, people like you are causing the damage by being uninformed and blaming one side of the isle while cheering for the other doing the same thing.

Against war? support Obama....
Against the Patriot Act? Obama added cell phones and put it on steroids, yet you still support him...
Against wealth disparity? It's increased in the last 8 years as much as any time in history, yet you support Obama and blame pubs.
Against being lied to by our leaders? no, you can't really be against that.

I honestly don't see much difference anymore between the two. Bush blew chunks, the new guy is blowing chunks, the next guy will do the same if we keep playing teams.
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I haven't supported Obama since about 2010. I voted for him in 2008 for a simple lack of better options, and according to you, if I was such a partisan hack, I'd of voted for him again in 2012, guess what I didn't do in 2012?

I oppose Obama as much as I opposed Bush, and have stated as much on this forum, specifically in this section, since then. Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention.
 
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earnest_voice

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
Obama national security strategies are just Bush' on steroids. If you dumbass liberals cant see that then minimum wage and low SES is for you.
 
pinkjackyle

pinkjackyle

Well-Known Member
how about we all start with somethings we can all agree on . weed is good , this country is fked up , healthcare for profit is pure greed , and depending on your district the education system is broke and college tuition is absolutely laughable .

can we all agree on these things ? im curious because if we cant , then we are far worse off than i imagined . its time for a third party , vote for a third party .
 
earnest_voice

earnest_voice

Well-Known Member
pinkjackyle said:
how about we all start with somethings we can all agree on . weed is good , this country is fked up , healthcare for profit is pure greed , and depending on your district the education system is broke and college tuition is absolutely laughable .

can we all agree on these things ? im curious because if we cant , then we are far worse off than i imagined . its time for a third party , vote for a third party .
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I think the third party vote is long overdue. The current two factions are but two sides of the same coin. But a third party vote will also require a lot more Americans get out to the ballot boxes as low voter turnout is just as concerning.
 
pinkjackyle

pinkjackyle

Well-Known Member
instead of fundraising boring dinners , we have fundraising smokeouts invite cypress hill to play insane in the membrane upon introduction into the frey.:clap:
 
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pinkjackyle

pinkjackyle

Well-Known Member
its time to start our own movement and bring this mj decriminalization home . maybe fix a few other things along the line like , term limits , public financing , auditing the fed , public auditing the dod , intrest free loans for college . a hell of a lot more academic scholarships . tax credits for going into math ,science and teaching degrees . grass roots govt assisted community veg gardens in the intercity overhauling the tax system to a consumption tax like here in tenn. we have a 9.75% sales tax no state income tax and it werks . ect ect ect
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
I haven't supported Obama since about 2010. I voted for him in 2008 for a simple lack of better options, and according to you, if I was such a partisan hack, I'd of voted for him again in 2012, guess what I didn't do in 2012?

I oppose Obama as much as I opposed Bush, and have stated as much on this forum, specifically in this section, since then. Pull your head out of your ass and pay attention.
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Yeah, I missed all those anti-dem threads you started and posts you made. My bad.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Harrekin said:
So your whole point was based on the fact people in the US perceive themselves to be doing better than they really are?

Well no shit Sherlock, you guys are arrogant as fuck and think the US is the best in the world at everything...

The best at ignorance would seem accurate.
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Well, better than Ireland..
 
R

reasonevangelist

Well-Known Member
UncleBuck said:
these two posts contradict each other, but i still like ya anyway pada.
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I think pada simply realizes that dreaming something and actually doing it, are not the same thing... which i suppose was essential to the topic of the thread. Kinda like the difference between desire and expectation. It's entirely possible to want but not expect, or even to want but expect the opposite.
 
SmokeyDan

SmokeyDan

Well-Known Member
pinkjackyle said:
how about we all start with somethings we can all agree on . weed is good , this country is fked up , healthcare for profit is pure greed , and depending on your district the education system is broke and college tuition is absolutely laughable .

can we all agree on these things ? im curious because if we cant , then we are far worse off than i imagined . its time for a third party , vote for a third party .
Click to expand...
How is healthcare for profit more greedy than hamburgers for profit?
 
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