Impairment by cannabis' a factor in fatal Mill Woods crash, police say Social Sharing

G

gb123

Well-Known Member
people drive that cant hear
people drive that cant touch the foot pedals

both would be said to be impaired? lol
but neither would be charged with murder in a motor vehicle accident!!

who are these people who push this crazy thought and expect people to follow along... LMAO

funny shit for a Monday
IM GOIN FISHIN! lol
 
BurtMaklin

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
gb123 said:
people drive that cant hear
people drive that cant touch the foot pedals

both would be said to be impaired? lol
but neither would be charged with murder in a motor vehicle accident!!

who are these people who push this crazy thought and expect people to follow along... LMAO

funny shit for a Monday
IM GOIN FISHIN! lol
Click to expand...
Mmmmkay, what's funny shit for a monday? That it is possible for people to be impaired by marijuana?

It's not really that crazy of an idea, I get impaired by marijuana when I eat it. Fucks me right up, not just a little, I nod out like a heroin addict, and I can smoke dabs, bongs and dubes all day. Because it's "marijuana" I should be able to drive like that legally? Come on, your arguments are pretty dumb, but I find it hard to believe that you are that stupid.

I have buddies of mine that are hardened alcoholics, they are never legal but they drive fine, they don't get in accidents and can handle their shit, they even pass sobriety tests, but if they blow over 0.08, they lose their license. End of story. Doesn't matter if they have a high tolerance, 0.08 is the law.

You don't have to be staggering, puking in your lap drunk to be charged with DUI, its a somewhat arbitrary number that was agreed upon by scientists and politicians (Who did many tests and collected real evidence to what impairment is, and guess what, it doesn't mean what YOU think it does). Same will go for marijuana, if you think differently, you're going to be proven wrong. The law isn't about fair, and judges don't give a flying fuck about your dumb "people drive when they're deaf" or "people can drive and not touch the pedals" (which they physically can't, unless they have hand controls) arguments. Go ahead, show up to court, stand in front of the judge and use those arguments and see how fast you leave in cuffs, or with a big fine and a suspended license. Lol. You can dream up all sorts of other dumb scenarios that make no sense, but it doesn't make you right, and you will be laughed out of court. Maybe your marijuana use is impairing your thought process.

Anyway, have a good day fishing, and setting public relations with the marijuana community back years with your dumb rants. Please don't speak for me, I don't need your kind of "help".
 
BurtMaklin

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
It always amazes me that people will blatantly dismiss actual facts to push their pro marijuana stance. Marijuana impairs people, fact. Marijuana is habit forming, fact (notice I did not use the word addictive, because I don't believe it is, IMO it's less habit forming than coffee, or caffeine). Marijuana has negative consequences for some people, fact. Not everything about marijuana is positive, fact.

Go ahead, surround yourself with a blanket of stupidity, it doesn't change the facts.
 
VIANARCHRIS

VIANARCHRIS

Well-Known Member
BurtMaklin said:
It always amazes me that people will blatantly dismiss actual facts to push their pro marijuana stance. Marijuana impairs people, fact. Marijuana is habit forming, fact (notice I did not use the word addictive, because I don't believe it is, IMO it's less habit forming than coffee, or caffeine). Marijuana has negative consequences for some people, fact. Not everything about marijuana is positive, fact.

Go ahead, surround yourself with a blanket of stupidity, it doesn't change the facts.
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I'm not sure why you think you are qualified to educate the rest of us, but you are completely missing the point. Nobody is arguing that cannabis can or cannot cause impairment, the issue is with the law itself. There is no BAC equivalent for thc impairment. They set the limit at 5 ng - meaning most patients are 'impaired' when they wake up in the morning. Unlike .08 with booze, there is zero scientific evidence that shows impairment is likely to occur at 5 ng thc. The driver MAY have been impaired, or he may have been distracted - he's guilty of something - but I'll put money on the impaired charge being dropped or tossed out. They cannot PROVE impairment by cannabis and the courts can't convict without proof. I wrote a whole article on the subject here: https://cannabiscandor.ca/legalization/cannabis-impaired-driving/
 
BurtMaklin

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
VIANARCHRIS said:
I'm not sure why you think you are qualified to educate the rest of us, but you are completely missing the point. Nobody is arguing that cannabis can or cannot cause impairment, the issue is with the law itself. There is no BAC equivalent for thc impairment. They set the limit at 5 ng - meaning most patients are 'impaired' when they wake up in the morning. Unlike .08 with booze, there is zero scientific evidence that shows impairment is likely to occur at 5 ng thc. The driver MAY have been impaired, or he may have been distracted - he's guilty of something - but I'll put money on the impaired charge being dropped or tossed out. They cannot PROVE impairment by cannabis and the courts can't convict without proof. I wrote a whole article on the subject here: https://cannabiscandor.ca/legalization/cannabis-impaired-driving/
Click to expand...

I'm fully aware of that, and completely agree. I don't consider myself impaired at that level either, in fact I wouldn't consider myself impaired at 25 times that level. I'm not disputing that. K, we clear on that? I drive "impaired" every day according to the law, I'm not disputing how stupid the law is, and you certainly make a more pointed argument than gb123. His arguments are ridiculous. You want him speaking for you?


If you want to discuss it, we're in agreement, but that doesn't change the fact that people will be impaired, people will make bad choices and people who don't deserve to lose their license will. In a perfect world the people that caused the financial meltdown in 08 would have gone to prison instead of getting million dollar bonuses, but hey, life ain't fair. Public opinion counts when it comes to the people that draft the laws, and public opinion is that marijuana impairs, and it does to varying degrees, and that is an indisputable fact. But I will not hitch my wagon to some twat that crossed the line and killed someone while high. He is not the poster child for any argument, and I will not support or stand behind anyone like that. If he was distracted, he made a poor decision and the fact that he was high looks pretty bad for the marijuana community. Bad PR is bad PR, and this is gonna be bad PR. It will make a huge public outcry against marijuana impaired driving. It is what it is, apparently he failed the sobriety test administered by drug recognition experts, you can't discount that. You can challenge it, but you can't discount it. In the years to come, if we can gather enough evidence to support our theory, laws may give some leeway to medical patients, but I doubt it, not with MADD driving the bus (which they are).

I don't get where you think I'm against what your saying, I'm not. I'm with you 100%, and have said nothing to the contrary, but if you feel better making it out to be that way, be my guest. I'm standing with you, but we're both gonna lose, just my gut feeling.
 
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Jefferson1977

Jefferson1977

Well-Known Member
The government needs evidence to support their theory of marijuana impairment, and they need many more scientific studies to show the level of THC where the majority of people would be considered impaired . Right now they basically have none, and so I am far more confident than you that they won't be able to make marijuana impairment stick now, or even in the foreseeable future.
 
Jefferson1977

Jefferson1977

Well-Known Member
I think if you fail a roadside test or a motor skills test, and also fail a blood test and a drug recognition expert assesses you as being high, it will be easier for them to prove through some kind of preponderance of evidence or whatever. But if you don't fail any of those and they try and nab you on a saliva or blood test, good luck making that stick, it will easily be beaten in court IMO. They just don't have the science behind them.
 
BurtMaklin

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
Jefferson1977 said:
I think if you fail a roadside test or a motor skills test, and also fail a blood test and a drug recognition expert assesses you as being high, it will be easier for them to prove through some kind of preponderance of evidence or whatever. But if you don't fail any of those and they try and nab you on a saliva or blood test, good luck making that stick, it will easily be beaten in court IMO. They just don't have the science behind them.
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I agree, and for this case, he failed the test administered by a drug recognition expert, or so the article says. I don't see how it will be tossed if he also has a high level of THC in his system. Maybe his lawyer will be able to prove he was distraught from killing someone and taking an airbag to the face?

On the other hand, as someone with spinal issues which in turn gives me problems with balance and coordination, I don't know, as a med patient, how they could give me a sobriety test that would count.
 
CalyxCrusher

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
TacoMac said:
Whatever, hotrod.

When the guy goes to jail, and he IS going to jail, remember how wrong you are.
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I never said anything about his future incarceration. I did however refute your bullshit about having ANY level of narcotics amounting to an instant arrest here in CANADA. Suck it up buttercup you can't be right all the time.
 
CalyxCrusher

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
Boatguy said:
What relation does this specific case have to do with medical marijuana or Canadian patients?
I am not a cop, and dont need to be one to have an opinion on driving under the influence. You want to up the anti and accuse me of harassing the sick?
Id be willing to bet your opinions arent in line with what the majority of Canadians agree with. Unless sharing the road with the inebriated is a part of the fun up there.
Im sure you will argue that you know better, but wtf.
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Yawn, tuck your tampon back in Susan. What people are ACTUALLY arguing are the nuances you seem to overlook. Like the fact they have to prove impairment related specifically to having THC in his system which caused his accident. Having THC in your system does not mean that is the primary cause for impairment. Any one of the medical patients here could take a month off and still fail the arbitrary value of 5ng per deciliter of THC. Unlike the BAC limits for alcohol which are based on a baseline where a majority of people show signs of impairment, these were chosen without any sort of consideration for the 200k+ law abiding medical patients who became criminals overnight.

No one is advocating for impaired driving. What they're advocating is to stop assumptions based on the preference of drug to imbibe with. Also it says it's believed to be a factor not the cause. Once again just because it was in his system does not necessarily mean it caused impairment.
 
G

gb123

Well-Known Member
VIANARCHRIS said:
I'm not sure why you think you are qualified to educate the rest of us, but you are completely missing the point. Nobody is arguing that cannabis can or cannot cause impairment, the issue is with the law itself. There is no BAC equivalent for thc impairment. They set the limit at 5 ng - meaning most patients are 'impaired' when they wake up in the morning. Unlike .08 with booze, there is zero scientific evidence that shows impairment is likely to occur at 5 ng thc. The driver MAY have been impaired, or he may have been distracted - he's guilty of something - but I'll put money on the impaired charge being dropped or tossed out. They cannot PROVE impairment by cannabis and the courts can't convict without proof. I wrote a whole article on the subject here: https://cannabiscandor.ca/legalization/cannabis-impaired-driving/
Click to expand...
just added two more none sense.. lol


Susan lol
 
BurtMaklin

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
CalyxCrusher said:
Yawn, tuck your tampon back in Susan. What people are ACTUALLY arguing are the nuances you seem to overlook. Like the fact they have to prove impairment related specifically to having THC in his system which caused his accident. Having THC in your system does not mean that is the primary cause for impairment. Any one of the medical patients here could take a month off and still fail the arbitrary value of 5ng per deciliter of THC. Unlike the BAC limits for alcohol which are based on a baseline where a majority of people show signs of impairment, these were chosen without any sort of consideration for the 200k+ law abiding medical patients who became criminals overnight.

No one is advocating for impaired driving. What they're advocating is to stop assumptions based on the preference of drug to imbibe with. Also it says it's believed to be a factor not the cause. Once again just because it was in his system does not necessarily mean it caused impairment.
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Pretty sure they don't have to prove anything but the fact that you're impaired by some kind of substance or another. They don't have to prove it was a factor in the accident either, as you can be charged and convicted of impaired by simply being in the drivers seat with your keys in your pocket, while being impaired. It's all about being in "care and control" of your vehicle, and although a dick move, it's still a chargeable offense. You can be charged for mowing your lawn on a lawn tractor if you're impaired ffs.

As it stands right now, you fail a sobriety test and have a concentration of THC in your system higher than than the 5ng limit, you're impaired. We can all speculate what the laws will be in the future, but this ain't the future. This is why med patients are worried. This isn't the first time Med patients have been criminalized, myself included, and my guess is it won't be the last and we will have to foot the bill for our defenses once again.

If you can post some proof, like court documents or some bill ammendment, I will humbly eat my words, but to the best of knowledge this is the standard:

https://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/cj-jp/sidl-rlcfa/
 
BurtMaklin

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
gb123 said:
just added two more none sense.. lol


Susan lol
Click to expand...

He's not calling me Susan, dummy. His quote was clearly for "Boatguy".

How's your "deaf driving" defense coming along? Have any lawyers check that out for ya?

Dummy.

PS; its nonsense, "He just posted two more of his nonsense posts.". You're welcome.

PPS; since he wasn't calling me Susan, and you clearly have no context in which to associate me with that name, please explain how you find it funny.
 
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G

gb123

Well-Known Member
BurtMaklin said:
I'm fully aware of that, and completely agree. I don't consider myself impaired at that level either, in fact I wouldn't consider myself impaired at 25 times that level. I'm not disputing that. K, we clear on that? I drive "impaired" every day according to the law, I'm not disputing how stupid the law is, and you certainly make a more pointed argument than gb123. His arguments are ridiculous. You want him speaking for you?


If you want to discuss it, we're in agreement, but that doesn't change the fact that people will be impaired, people will make bad choices and people who don't deserve to lose their license will. In a perfect world the people that caused the financial meltdown in 08 would have gone to prison instead of getting million dollar bonuses, but hey, life ain't fair. Public opinion counts when it comes to the people that draft the laws, and public opinion is that marijuana impairs, and it does to varying degrees, and that is an indisputable fact. But I will not hitch my wagon to some twat that crossed the line and killed someone while high. He is not the poster child for any argument, and I will not support or stand behind anyone like that. If he was distracted, he made a poor decision and the fact that he was high looks pretty bad for the marijuana community. Bad PR is bad PR, and this is gonna be bad PR. It will make a huge public outcry against marijuana impaired driving. It is what it is, apparently he failed the sobriety test administered by drug recognition experts, you can't discount that. You can challenge it, but you can't discount it. In the years to come, if we can gather enough evidence to support our theory, laws may give some leeway to medical patients, but I doubt it, not with MADD driving the bus (which they are).

I don't get where you think I'm against what your saying, I'm not. I'm with you 100%, and have said nothing to the contrary, but if you feel better making it out to be that way, be my guest. I'm standing with you, but we're both gonna lose, just my gut feeling.
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lmao ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,actually there....Mr what not???
its funny as hell you cant see which way is UP....
cheers wrong way ears!
but hey ......who am I to explain the fact that you DON'T understand...
......... have at it there ,,,mr KNOW it! (:
Youre to easy ;)
 
G

gb123

Well-Known Member
BurtMaklin said:
He's not calling me Susan, dummy. His quote was clearly for "Boatguy".

How's your "deaf driving" defense coming along? Have any lawyers check that out for ya?

Dummy.

PS; its nonsense, "He just posted two more of his nonsense posts.". You're welcome.

PPS; since he wasn't calling me Susan, and you clearly have no context in which to associate me with that name, please explain how you find it funny.
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hahahahaha you think what you do lol

cheers wrong way ears. :)

its NONE SENSE to you but that doesnt surprise me any
you seem like one of the old folks I bent out of shape.
ITS OK
..Let IT GO!
MOVE ON
dont let what I say bunch your panties so much .. ;)
 
G

gb123

Well-Known Member
BurtMaklin said:
Hey, as a med guy, I'm always over any limit they set, at any given moment of any given day, but I'm going to be realistic about my expectations. If I kill someone while behind the wheel, I fully expect to go to jail, fair or not. He may not have been impaired, but if he shows a high concentration of thc in his system (which I don't know that he had, but the cops seem to think/know so), he will go to jail. End of story. The law doesn't care about fair or your opinion, that's why prisons are full of marijuana "criminals". Some deserve to be there, some don't. Fair isn't part of the equation, neither is your emotional response to whether or not you think you can drive high or not.
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A med guy eh?//
so what wrong with you? just out of curiosity...got shit to say???............................. BACK IT UP..!!!
Im gonna bet............ YOU CANT :idea::bigjoint:(:
but .......................... it will be fun to see ya try..
out of the blue guy... ;) ... lol

ps Fishing was REAL SLOW today ...
 
G

gb123

Well-Known Member
[QUOTE="BurtMaklin, post: 14794878, member: 1007183 dismiss actual facts to push their pro marijuana stance. Marijuana impairs people, fact. .[/QUOTE]

FACT JACK
YOU..have no clue! :idea:
tryin to be really simple here seeing as you miss most of what anyone has to say ;)
 
BurtMaklin

BurtMaklin

Well-Known Member
gb123 said:
lmao ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,actually there....Mr what not???
its funny as hell you cant see which way is UP....
cheers wrong way ears!
but hey ......who am I to explain the fact that you DON'T understand...
......... have at it there ,,,mr KNOW it! (:
Youre to easy ;)
Click to expand...
Uhhhhh, what? Is English your native tongue? If not I probably owe you an apology.

gb123 said:
hahahahaha you think what you do lol

cheers wrong way ears. :)

its NONE SENSE to you but that doesnt surprise me any
you seem like one of the old folks I bent out of shape.
ITS OK
..Let IT GO!
MOVE ON
dont let what I say bunch your panties so much .. ;)
Click to expand...
Don't worry about me, I don't wear panties. I wear boxers, so it's a lot like free ballin if you ask me. Only problem I have is once in a while I sit down too hard on a stray nut. Mostly the right one, I don't know why, when I look in the mirror they seem to hang evenly. Strange.

gb123 said:
A med guy eh?//
so what wrong with you? just out of curiosity...got shit to say???............................. BACK IT UP..!!!
Im gonna bet............ YOU CANT :idea::bigjoint:(:
but .......................... it will be fun to see ya try..
out of the blue guy... ;) ... lol

ps Fishing was REAL SLOW today ...
Click to expand...

Too bad about the fishing, hope you brought your weed it helps with the boredom.

I flipped a tractor trailer during "White Juan", I believe it was 2004. I was doing 110 trying to keep tension on my coupling pin, pushing snow with the front bumper when the wind blew my truck and empty trailer 180 degrees completely facing the wrong way on the highway. I then hit a culvert in the ditch that ripped the wheels off the truck and flipped me on my side. I bounced 5 or 6 (maybe even 7 or 8, but who really knows for sure) times on my side, being thrown out the window only to have my leg get jammed between the steering wheel and the door and kinda hold me in place (probably saved my life, can't say for sure). Now my shoulder, back and leg (the one that got jammed) kinda hurt sometimes and I walk with a permanent limp. I also have a case of PTSD where I still wake up with nightmares (sometimes, much less frequently than before. Maybe it's the pot) that scare the shit out of my wife. It's more that sense of calm where everything slows down and happens in super slow motion that gives me a really eerie, helpless feeling. Needless to say I don't drive much in the snow anymore. I still see the divot where the trailer hit first in the bank when I drive by it, which when you think about it, is pretty impressive it hasn't been taken back over by nature in 15 years. It's not as deep, and has water channels worn into it, but it's still there.
 
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