IF you are new to LED and want help choosing what to buy, POST HERE!

lol maybe im wrong but i would put my Hydro Grow up against any light on the market. it's already destroying my dormGrow and Pro Grow LEDS


[/QUOTE] For me, I stay away from any light that doesn't publish its spectrum/ratio. Unless it's a direct-from-Factory deal which eliminates the Cammie middleman. For example, at TopLED's prices I could buy one even though they play the "secret spectrum" game too. A balancing act (principle vs. pragmatism).[/QUOTE]

keebo3000 said:

lol maybe im wrong but i would put my Hydro Grow up against any light on the market. it's already destroying my dormGrow and Pro Grow LEDS

Click to expand...

There are owners of TopLED lights who say the same thing. Without actually putting a brand up against something, it's not possible to say.

My concern with HydroGrowLED is the notoriously bad history of its owner (Cammie McKenzie). I'm sure the lights work ok, although I suspect they're just rebranded Apollos (etc.). I just don't like to support people like her.

Anyone considering HydroGrowLED can google for "Cammie McKenzie Fraud." Cammie has prepared answers for everything. But, people don't develop reputations like this without some truth to it. She was on here not long ago with a pseudonym bashing bsled.

I don't doubt the light performs well. There are lots of lights that perform well without associating with people like that.

az2000 said:

There are owners of TopLED lights who say the same thing. Without actually putting a brand up against something, it's not possible to say.

My concern with HydroGrowLED is the notoriously bad history of its owner (Cammie McKenzie). I'm sure the lights work ok, although I suspect they're just rebranded Apollos (etc.). I just don't like to support people like her.

Anyone considering HydroGrowLED can google for "Cammie McKenzie Fraud." Cammie has prepared answers for everything. But, people don't develop reputations like this without some truth to it. She was on here not long ago with a pseudonym bashing bsled.

I don't doubt the light performs well. There are lots of lights that perform well without associating with people like that.

Click to expand...

they should also google the results of different grows using the hydrogrow. One thing I know for sure there isn't one person alive who hasn't done one or multiple things that they are not proud of.( he or she who is without sin cast the first stone). maybe that why i'm a little more forgiving is because I have a checkered past. thank god the people around me gave me a chance at redemption for the things I as a child. to err is human, Forgiveness? divine.I saw all the things you saw about the owner.. I looked deeper I saw that it was one incident that 50 different people regurgitate, then something about nissan parts, but nothing about lights not working, or giving a bad yield or cutting out or taking forever to finish a plant. all I hear are good things about the company when It comes to what I give a shit about. Which is growing cannabis. it just seems like some people are on a mission to destroy that company that produces an excellent light. that to me is sad. especially with ALL the bullshit thats out there. would you rather push them toward something that perhaps won't perform as good. all im saying is when you google. take note of the date that the incident happened like 4 almost five years. if the company was so horrible, wouldn't there be more than just one complaint? this shit grows. Dank. Im more than happy with the money I've invested. and I would more than recommend this light to others.
to each his own tho'

keebo3000 said:

maybe that's why I'm a little more forgiving is because I have a checkered past. Thank god the people around me gave me a chance at redemption...

Click to expand...

I agree with your attitude. But, it was just 3-4 months ago "Scammie Cammie" was working her magic with bsled/Baisheng (link).

At some point shouldn't there be a change? With McKenzie, it's denials, depicting herself as an innocent victim, everyone's against her... and she keeps doing what she does.

Doesn't mean your light's bad.

keebo3000 said:

I saw all the things you saw about the owner.. I looked deeper I saw that it was one incident that 50 different people regurgitate,

Click to expand...

If you're talking about HydroGrowLED grassing out a customer to the police (and Cammie McKenzie's response that it was just one person -- who stiffed her for $4k worth of lights -- and then proceeded to use scammie math to say it's really $8k because the customer had $4k of lights and didn't pay $4k... blink, blink....), take a look at this post on ICmag[1].

For some reason ICmag took HydroGrowLED as a sponsor. HGL offered a free-light growoff -- which led to no light being given away yet, 8 months later. As Cammie's reputation became a topic, ICmag deleted posts. The post I linked to is an ICmag supporter who points out how Cammie (aka LEDgirl) repeatedly threatened customers with turning them into the police. And, that much of that history has been purged by ICmag.

If you don't think this is relevant to selecting a light, that's fine. But, I wouldn't downplay it as just one incident. The way you minimize it (and imply it's old history when it was just 4 months ago) indicates you're not comfortable with it either.

[1] I'll reproduce the post below (in case it's purged too).

Originally Posted by HydroGrowLeds
Ok guys let's get the story straight, hopefully this will the last time I have to address this issue, because it is an important one. If you do your research( it's clear you haven't) you will see that the one bad thing you find about this company happened almost 5 years ago, when a "customer" ordered 4,000 dollars in lights with paypal. then after he received the lights that customer told paypal the he had, in fact never authorized payment for any lights and created a chargeback, so now not only does he have 4,000 dollars worth of lights, but now he also has our 4,000 dollars. Once it was proven to paypal that he did in fact receive the lights he was charged again, this time thru his credit card, well this honest human being then created a charge back with his credit card..HE STILL has the lights. Now I ask you what would you do if someone stole 8,000 dollars in product and money from you. Just let it go? The police were not informed that the customer grows cannabis, however they were informed that this honest individual has defrauded this company out of 8,000 dollars, so I ask you again. WHAT WOULD YOU DO? Should we have sent some goons to go get him? Kidnapped his family? Maybe we should have just let him have the lights and his money. We are a legitimate business who provides an excellent product. But no one deserves to stolen from

Click to expand...

You know, I had hoped that things had changed around there, but I'm starting to have my doubts.

Unfortunately, all of the documentation on here about LEDGirl has been purged, but I can assure you that there were a HELL of a lot more instances than that where she at least threatened police involvement. I'm not going to bother with trying to excavate all of the bullshit from the 'Net, but there were innumerable instances of Cammie threatening customers, and other site operators, with the police. She was also so obnoxious that she was banned from virtually every grow site on the 'Net.

She has made a practice of exploiting people whose hobbies are outside of the law and have little recourse - Google "Cameron S. Wieldraayer and Night Szevyn Racing" (her name, prior to her sex change).

It's my understanding that she is no longer associated with your company. If that is the case, then the best of luck to you. If not, caveat emptor.
-- https://www.icmag.com/ic/showpost.php?p=6431772&postcount=73

Click to expand...

az2000 said:

If you're talking about HydroGrowLED grassing out a customer to the police (and Cammie McKenzie's response that it was just one person -- who stiffed her for $4k worth of lights -- and then proceeded to use scammie math to say it's really $8k because the customer had $4k of lights and didn't pay $4k... blink, blink....), take a look at this post on ICmag[1].

For some reason ICmag took HydroGrowLED as a sponsor. HGL offered a free-light growoff -- which led to no light being given away yet, 8 months later. As Cammie's reputation became a topic, ICmag deleted posts. The post I linked to is an ICmag supporter who points out how Cammie (aka LEDgirl) repeatedly threatened customers with turning them into the police. And, that much of that history has been purged by ICmag.

If you don't think this is relevant to selecting a light, that's fine. But, I wouldn't downplay it as just one incident. The way you minimize it (and imply it's old history when it was just 4 months ago) indicates you're not comfortable with it either.

[1] I'll reproduce the post below (in case it's purged too).

Click to expand...

4000 thousand dollars? I couldn't lose 4000 and let that person get away with it. could you? I'm assuming that you think it was ok to defraud a company? and you feel that if said company was defrauded they should just accept that loss? honestly how do you feel that felony should have been handled. it's like your blaming the rape victim for being raped and daring to call the police.i am so interested you think robbery should be handled whether it be $4000, $8000, are $501 dollars. just as the post
states what would you do.

az2000 said:

If you're talking about HydroGrowLED grassing out a customer to the police (and Cammie McKenzie's response that it was just one person -- who stiffed her for $4k worth of lights -- and then proceeded to use scammie math to say it's really $8k because the customer had $4k of lights and didn't pay $4k... blink, blink....), take a look at this post on ICmag[1].

For some reason ICmag took HydroGrowLED as a sponsor. HGL offered a free-light growoff -- which led to no light being given away yet, 8 months later. As Cammie's reputation became a topic, ICmag deleted posts. The post I linked to is an ICmag supporter who points out how Cammie (aka LEDgirl) repeatedly threatened customers with turning them into the police. And, that much of that history has been purged by ICmag.

If you don't think this is relevant to selecting a light, that's fine. But, I wouldn't downplay it as just one incident. The way you minimize it (and imply it's old history when it was just 4 months ago) indicates you're not comfortable with it either.

[1] I'll reproduce the post below (in case it's purged too).

Click to expand...

aplease post something other than this one incident more than four years ago, nothing on the internet is ever really purged. please show more than one post by a thief. that is the one story dealing with grow lights, show me more. When i only see one story constantly regurgitated it tells me that this most be agreat company if there is only one bad review. but im open to more if you have it....I dont want to hear about nissan parts cause i dont give a fuck about cars...........you can find more bad reviews of walmart than hydrogrow...everyone who grows with this light loves it. anyone who has seen a grow with this light buys one. present company included. And i have purchased many an LED light. a criminal's testimony is thrown out in court because it holds no merit....kinda like the guy that stole $4000 and then made a bad review....im going to go look it up myself and see lf it was 4 months ago or four years ago..

az2000 said:

If you're talking about HydroGrowLED grassing out a customer to the police (and Cammie McKenzie's response that it was just one person -- who stiffed her for $4k worth of lights -- and then proceeded to use scammie math to say it's really $8k because the customer had $4k of lights and didn't pay $4k... blink, blink....), take a look at this post on ICmag[1].

For some reason ICmag took HydroGrowLED as a sponsor. HGL offered a free-light growoff -- which led to no light being given away yet, 8 months later. As Cammie's reputation became a topic, ICmag deleted posts. The post I linked to is an ICmag supporter who points out how Cammie (aka LEDgirl) repeatedly threatened customers with turning them into the police. And, that much of that history has been purged by ICmag.

If you don't think this is relevant to selecting a light, that's fine. But, I wouldn't downplay it as just one incident. The way you minimize it (and imply it's old history when it was just 4 months ago) indicates you're not comfortable with it either.

[1] I'll reproduce the post below (in case it's purged too).

Click to expand...

this is what I found on rippoffreport...TWO YEARS AGO

When we reminded him that he was still in possession of a stolen light and he owed us for this product before we would warranty his other products, he hung up the phone one us. Immediately he called Paypal and filed a chargeback stating he never took part in the purchase. Of course Paypal found this claim by the customer to be completely fraudulent, so after a few weeks they returned the $4,000 to our account the customer had temporarily recovered while still having possession of our lights.

At this point the customer then filed a second chargeback complaint with his credit card company, as Paypal found John Bell to be a fraud. His credit card company immediately took the $4,000 back out of our account, and now it was up to us to prove once more that John was a fraud or we'd never see our money back. Since John had now attempted to defraud our company twice via fraudulent chargebacks, had money withdrawn from our account by his bank and Paypal on two separate occasions in the amount near $4,000, and was in possession of the original lights he purchased plus a stolen light, the decision was made to get the police involved. Records from John Bell (his emails, etc...) were immediately turned over to the local police and charges of grand theft were levied against John Bell.

Through the assistance of his credit card company, they required John Bell to ship us back all of our merchandise prior to giving him a refund on the merchandise. After John Bell had failed in his fraud attempt against Hydro Grow, and was now on police radar for interstate theft, he went to the web and made the libelous posting you just read. Less than half the story is truth, not to mention he completely left out the part where he was attempting to defraud our company for over $7,000. John Bell remains the only customer in our entire history as a company that we have ever turned over to the police. If someone was trying to steal $7,000 from you I'm sure you'd do the same thing.

After the libel posting by John Bell hit the web, companies like Grow LED Hydro (stole our business name on top of other things) began adding baseless fuel to the fire in a hopes to steal some business. Now all you're seeing is some 2 year old pissing match that companies keep bringing up as it's the only bad thing they can say about a Hydro Grow anything... When you can't be the best what these companies do is try and smear the best... Now you know the real truth to this ridiculous story.

keebo3000 said:

I'm assuming that you think it was ok to defraud a company?

Click to expand...

I'm assuming (with pretty good evidence behind it) that that didn't happen the way HydroGrowLED said it did (similar to their story about Bsled/Baisheng), or that it is the one legitimate police-calling they use to deflect from all the others.

keebo3000 said:

this is what I found on rippoffreport...TWO YEARS AGO

Click to expand...

Does it make sense to you that someone who supposedy stole $4000 in lights would make a rip-off report for a $300 light?

I.e., you're assuming HydroGrowLED's response to that ripoffreport isn't merely a deflection.

I.e., remember how Cammie said the only time she called the police was that one $4000 (or $8000, if you believe her double-loss math). But, a long-time member/contributer of ICmag noted that there were many other incidents?

If you want to believe McKenzie, that's fine with me. What with her history, I'd be reluctant. There appears to be a pattern of controversy and denying any responsibility.

keebo3000 said:

they should also google the results of different grows using the hydrogrow. One thing I know for sure there isn't one person alive who hasn't done one or multiple things that they are not proud of.( he or she who is without sin cast the first stone). maybe that why i'm a little more forgiving is because I have a checkered past. thank god the people around me gave me a chance at redemption for the things I as a child. to err is human, Forgiveness? divine.I saw all the things you saw about the owner.. I looked deeper I saw that it was one incident that 50 different people regurgitate, then something about nissan parts, but nothing about lights not working, or giving a bad yield or cutting out or taking forever to finish a plant. all I hear are good things about the company when It comes to what I give a shit about. Which is growing cannabis. it just seems like some people are on a mission to destroy that company that produces an excellent light. that to me is sad. especially with ALL the bullshit thats out there. would you rather push them toward something that perhaps won't perform as good. all im saying is when you google. take note of the date that the incident happened like 4 almost five years. if the company was so horrible, wouldn't there be more than just one complaint? this shit grows. Dank. Im more than happy with the money I've invested. and I would more than recommend this light to others.
to each his own tho'

Click to expand...

keebo3000 said:

4000 thousand dollars? I couldn't lose 4000 and let that person get away with it. could you? I'm assuming that you think it was ok to defraud a company? and you feel that if said company was defrauded they should just accept that loss? honestly how do you feel that felony should have been handled. it's like your blaming the rape victim for being raped and daring to call the police.i am so interested you think robbery should be handled whether it be $4000, $8000, are $501 dollars. just as the post
states what would you do.

Click to expand...

keebo3000 said:

aplease post something other than this one incident more than four years ago, nothing on the internet is ever really purged. please show more than one post by a thief. that is the one story dealing with grow lights, show me more. When i only see one story constantly regurgitated it tells me that this most be agreat company if there is only one bad review. but im open to more if you have it....I dont want to hear about nissan parts cause i dont give a fuck about cars...........you can find more bad reviews of walmart than hydrogrow...everyone who grows with this light loves it. anyone who has seen a grow with this light buys one. present company included. And i have purchased many an LED light. a criminal's testimony is thrown out in court because it holds no merit....kinda like the guy that stole $4000 and then made a bad review....im going to go look it up myself and see lf it was 4 months ago or four years ago..

Click to expand...

keebo3000 said:

this is what I found on rippoffreport...TWO YEARS AGO

When we reminded him that he was still in possession of a stolen light and he owed us for this product before we would warranty his other products, he hung up the phone one us. Immediately he called Paypal and filed a chargeback stating he never took part in the purchase. Of course Paypal found this claim by the customer to be completely fraudulent, so after a few weeks they returned the $4,000 to our account the customer had temporarily recovered while still having possession of our lights.

At this point the customer then filed a second chargeback complaint with his credit card company, as Paypal found John Bell to be a fraud. His credit card company immediately took the $4,000 back out of our account, and now it was up to us to prove once more that John was a fraud or we'd never see our money back. Since John had now attempted to defraud our company twice via fraudulent chargebacks, had money withdrawn from our account by his bank and Paypal on two separate occasions in the amount near $4,000, and was in possession of the original lights he purchased plus a stolen light, the decision was made to get the police involved. Records from John Bell (his emails, etc...) were immediately turned over to the local police and charges of grand theft were levied against John Bell.

Through the assistance of his credit card company, they required John Bell to ship us back all of our merchandise prior to giving him a refund on the merchandise. After John Bell had failed in his fraud attempt against Hydro Grow, and was now on police radar for interstate theft, he went to the web and made the libelous posting you just read. Less than half the story is truth, not to mention he completely left out the part where he was attempting to defraud our company for over $7,000. John Bell remains the only customer in our entire history as a company that we have ever turned over to the police. If someone was trying to steal $7,000 from you I'm sure you'd do the same thing.

After the libel posting by John Bell hit the web, companies like Grow LED Hydro (stole our business name on top of other things) began adding baseless fuel to the fire in a hopes to steal some business. Now all you're seeing is some 2 year old pissing match that companies keep bringing up as it's the only bad thing they can say about a Hydro Grow anything... When you can't be the best what these companies do is try and smear the best... Now you know the real truth to this ridiculous story.

Click to expand...

WTF is this shit^^^^...... seriously ???...........What is the deal with these long winded clarifications & justification posts when someone questions HGL's business ethics?

Why say " I put my HGL light up against ANY light on the market" when you haven't even finished this run yet and have used only two other crappy chinese led panels?? pretty aggressive marketing statement IMO.

Why after 15 months of NO free lights given out at Icmag has all-of-a-sudden HGL coming in ready to send panels after I posted about this issue in your thread here???

Are you vested in this company???? because it sure as fuck seems it!

Some say Hans panel can't flower for shit!! do I care? NO, because it's NOT my company

Some say that Inda-gro is an overpriced fluoro!! do i care? NO, because I don't work for them

I own both and know what they can do FOR ME............doesn't mean I go writing long posts for pages about how others are wrong about their opinions about them.

HGL knows this is the biggest forum for led growing on the net(most viewed easily), and sticking in a great grow may change some minds and create better business; as most know now that their nothing but rebranded chinese panels at a huge mark up. You also bringing up having "tacoing leaves" issue with an led is rather interesting=== because that's a big problem with hid/cfl/induction bulbs proximity in the summer, rarely, if ever under led .......you've shown TWO pics(first post) of your HGL led panel in your entire thread so far.......hmmm

Not calling you out completely...... yet............show some pics of the panel(s) orientation over your garden please.

Alright back to the world cup...........be safe RIU

All the hungry animals coming out of their dens

Cxa famine circa 2014

PSUAGRO. said:

WTF is this shit^^^^...... seriously ???...........What is the deal with these long winded clarifications & justification posts when someone questions HGL's business ethics?

Why say " I put my HGL light up against ANY light on the market" when you haven't even finished this run yet and have used only two other crappy chinese led panels?? pretty aggressive marketing statement IMO.

Why after 15 months of NO free lights given out at Icmag has all-of-a-sudden HGL coming in ready to send panels after I posted about this issue in your thread here???

Are you vested in this company???? because it sure as fuck seems it!

Some say Hans panel can't flower for shit!! do I care? NO, because it's NOT my company

Some say that Inda-gro is an overpriced fluoro!! do i care? NO, because I don't work for them

I own both and know what they can do FOR ME............doesn't mean I go writing long posts for pages about how others are wrong about their opinions about them.

HGL knows this is the biggest forum for led growing on the net(most viewed easily), and sticking in a great grow may change some minds and create better business; as most know now that their nothing but rebranded chinese panels at a huge mark up. You also bringing up having "tacoing leaves" issue with an led is rather interesting=== because that's a big problem with hid/cfl/induction bulbs proximity in the summer, rarely, if ever under led .......you've shown TWO pics(first post) of your HGL led panel in your entire thread so far.......hmmm

Not calling you out completely...... yet............show some pics of the panel(s) orientation over your garden please.

Alright back to the world cup...........be safe RIU

Click to expand...

I don't have to defend myself, I love my new light. I didn't love my one of my old lights.The pro grow does a good job. the dorm grow sucked ass. so I decided to tell people what i've found to work. i've never said that others are wrong in their opinions, everybody has opinions so they can't be wrong, but your right I have grown with two different companies lights and these were the best. I have pictures of all my grows which would you like to see? I also have videos on youtube dating back to win I was growing with hid would you like to see those. I have no reason to lie. hold on Iwill post pics right now...with or without method seven glasses...Sidenote... Im lazy fuck so .... even the thought of unhooking a ballast and removing a cooltube seems tedious.. I post long posts as a response because im a bit long winded, and want to make sure my post is articulated.....When I didnt own a hydrogrow I didnt post about it. please go thru my history on this website and see what i was posting about. it just seems like a mob of people going after this great product. seems like an injustice call me a super hero............you think my grow is great? thanks!!

Positivity said:

All the hungry animals coming out of their dens

Cxa famine circa 2014

Click to expand...

PSUAGRO. said:

WTF is this shit^^^^...... seriously ???...........What is the deal with these long winded clarifications & justification posts when someone questions HGL's business ethics?

Why say " I put my HGL light up against ANY light on the market" when you haven't even finished this run yet and have used only two other crappy chinese led panels?? pretty aggressive marketing statement IMO.

Why after 15 months of NO free lights given out at Icmag has all-of-a-sudden HGL coming in ready to send panels after I posted about this issue in your thread here???

Are you vested in this company???? because it sure as fuck seems it!

Some say Hans panel can't flower for shit!! do I care? NO, because it's NOT my company

Some say that Inda-gro is an overpriced fluoro!! do i care? NO, because I don't work for them

I own both and know what they can do FOR ME............doesn't mean I go writing long posts for pages about how others are wrong about their opinions about them.

HGL knows this is the biggest forum for led growing on the net(most viewed easily), and sticking in a great grow may change some minds and create better business; as most know now that their nothing but rebranded chinese panels at a huge mark up. You also bringing up having "tacoing leaves" issue with an led is rather interesting=== because that's a big problem with hid/cfl/induction bulbs proximity in the summer, rarely, if ever under led .......you've shown TWO pics(first post) of your HGL led panel in your entire thread so far.......hmmm

Not calling you out completely...... yet............show some pics of the panel(s) orientation over your garden please.

Alright back to the world cup...........be safe RIU

Click to expand...

Its been like six minutes since i saw post...I hope that was quick enough. Boy i am truly sorrry for speaking my mind on a forum. apparently you all have grown with this light or got ripped off yourselves. if so I apologize. But all im doing is talking about my experience growing with this light. I wasn't the one who brought any of this up. I was simply posting pics of my grow. and responding with the research I did for myself, and although i wont be discusing that subject anymore Im still happy with my purchase. if no one ever buys from that company again.(im buying another) I will still be happy with my purchase.


Peace.

Actually kind of liked seeing what a hgl can do. It's been a long time since I've seen one of those in action.

There's just so much bad stuff involved with that particular co. For me it was just watching the back and forth posts back in the day..when they were all active. Disagreed with lots of it. Just seeing the grow reports I could tell they weren't good enough.

But the new lights are foreign to me..stopped keeping up with their line. It's good your happy, and the results look good. But far from groundbreaking nowadays. Not that every grow has to be state of the art.

Oh well..if you didn't know now you know. With hgl..suspicious until proven otherwise..lol

Positivity said:

Actually kind of liked seeing what a hgl can do. It's been a long time since I've seen one of those in action.

There's just so much bad stuff involved with that particular co. For me it was just watching the back and forth posts back in the day..when they were all active. Disagreed with lots of it. Just seeing the grow reports I could tell they weren't good enough.

But the new lights are foreign to me..stopped keeping up with their line. It's good your happy, and the results look good. But far from groundbreaking nowadays. Not that every grow has to be state of the art.

Oh well..if you didn't know now you know. With hgl..suspicious until proven otherwise..lol

Click to expand...

TRust me I know now!! I won't EVER get involved in that conversation again.

I'm trying to put together a stealth rubbermaid setup. It will be 3 totes stacked. Overall inside dimensions will be around 32" X 20" X 58". I plan on a scrog screen 30" X 18". What would you suggest. I was thinking either 2-3 kessil h150's, or 1 kessil h350, or 1 area 51 RW-75. And I need to mention I have zero experience with led's and open to any suggestions

Thanks

Guys please don't make this thread your personal grow journal. I have a hard time reading thru all 100+ pages without it.

http://rollitup.org/t/led-users-unite.240615/page-338

Nice quote from a Nazi rocket scientist, who then traded sides after the war with Operation Paperclip, classy.

Today was the day to buy LEDs off ebay, tuesday of all days. There were like 30 lamps all on sale in about a 4 hour period. I picked up 7 count 180w joyhydro ufo for $114. I fully expect them to be the cheapest, most failure-prone lamps pumped off an assembly line, but at that price I couldn't resist. Should be the perfect supplement for a 600w metal halide, just using 2 or 3 at a time and when they fail who cares, they were only $14 a piece.

I've seen some interesting lamps go through, like an ION prototype 8 for $150, or 3 apollo 280w for $120. LED's are a popular item right now it would seem.


I have a philosophy that modern history is nothing more than a controlled experiment. Everything put into the consumption of the general public is placed there purposefully in order to reinforce a methodology of beliefs. The same exact people have been playing as both sides of every conflict since the beginning of exactly detailed recorded history, and probably started before then. In the year 2001 though, it became a whole new stage because of the advent of instant telecommunication technology. That's when the game began anew, so to speak. Referring to events that occurred before 2001 should be viewed with the same cynicism as the tightly and obviously controlled historical world events taking place in front of you in your own current lifetimes. The only thing that's changed is the method of transmitting data, and it's speed.